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Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,991 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    An SI is not difficult to do.

    It'll be interesting to see how many obey a reduced limit



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,475 ✭✭✭ Flinty997


    I think it was more about it only being used for recreation, not business transport route. Not weight.

    For example they stopped car-vans etc. We had a van and it would get stopped.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭ VonLuck


    Honestly don't see the need for a change in speed limit. Cars are so far removed from pedestrians that interaction between the two is very limited and generally only at crossing points. Even at that, cars are going slow in order to manoeuvre the roundabouts. There's also a massive clear view of any potential dangers so if a pedestrian does decide to cross randomly at a non-designated crossing point, drivers would be well aware.

    If they do introduce this 30kmph speed limit, it needs to be accompanied with some traffic calming measures. That road is suited to higher speeds and it's very difficult to maintain a limit lower than that.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What crossing points?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,475 ✭✭✭ Flinty997


    Can't agree with any of that.

    You've said cars are going slow but also they can't adhere to the speed limits. That is contradictory. The are wide and narrow roads in the park, some straight but some winding with lots of turns. There are deer, cyclists, children, runners, dogs etc.

    The park isn't always busy, but it's not always quiet either. (Seems quieter than in the past to me, other than high peak days)

    But they should have some statistics on accidents and collisions. They should be used to dictate what limits are needed. If there are few accidents it suggests there isn't a problem with the current limits.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,475 ✭✭✭ Flinty997




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,991 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    The thing to keep in mind is the near misses and non-injury incidents won't be reported



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭ VonLuck


    The roundabout towards the Castleknock gate.

    I'm specifically referring to Chesterfield Avenue where the road is wide and very straight which lends itself to a higher speed along the main stretches.

    But going slow is a necessity to get around a roundabout. You won't find any cars going 50kmph, let alone 30kmph going around them!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There are no pedestrian crossings.

    Definitely no deer crossings!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,475 ✭✭✭ Flinty997



    How would "non accidents" even be reported. If its not an accident, its not an accident.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,991 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    Thats kinda the point I was making. Its sort of like survivor bias.


    While there might be, say, 2 incidents a month reported, there might be 20 near misses not being reported. This issue has been highlighted by pedestrian and cycling groups a lot over the last 4-5 years with those groups actively encouraging people to report every incident, regardless of how small, so that there is a more complete dataset of problem points in the road network



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,458 ✭✭✭✭ Larbre34


    I have no problem with a 30 km/h limit in most of the Park, but I think 50 is perfectly fine on Chesterfield Avenue.

    Yes it needs designated crossing points, but after that and with segregated cycle lanes 50 for vehicular traffic is absolutely fine. It has excellent sightlines and a good surface for adhesion under breaking.

    Besides, there's a calmness that comes over people driving along that route, it's very relaxing and people are always cautious about the deer etc. I really don't see the need for 30, but no doubt it'll be piloted anyway and we'll see what enforcement and adherence is like.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,475 ✭✭✭ Flinty997


    There are speed ramps on the north road. So speed isn't limited to the main ave.

    The Main Ave often is often busy with poor sight lines. I've had a deer jump the car that came out of nowhere. Cars and driver often have blind spots. In heavy traffic I've had a cyclist cross diagonally head one at me, crossing from one side of the road to the other at high speed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,475 ✭✭✭ Flinty997



    I take your point. But the flip side of that is you may end up making changes that have no effect. Because they don't fix any problem that actually exist. You invent a problem to fix. Its like the US designing a fancy pen to use in space. Russian using a pencil.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,991 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    No argument there. I guess its about doing trials, gathering as many data sources as possible, surveys, physical analysis, real world observations etc.

    Basically a single source of data can only give you results for the inputs into it. A larger scope of data gives you a wider view.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,475 ✭✭✭ Flinty997


    Opw talks a lot. Does little. Been doing that for years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,458 ✭✭✭✭ Larbre34


    The OPW have always been very precious about minimising the amount of modern visual pollution in the Park, signs and lines and signal lights and all that sort of stuff.

    I happen to think they're right about that, it really does keep a great historical visual.

    However, it can't be denied that traffic isn't historic, or a million plastic traffic cones either. A solution can be found to segregate the cycle lane and I'm sure one can be found to designate crossing points too. Maybe a raised speed table with granite setting surrounds, just like the roundabouts, maybe granite set the stripes of the zebra crossing too. In fairness to the OPW, on many of their sites, they do come up some lovely solutions for restoration and management that suit modern safety requirements while respecting the history.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,730 ✭✭✭✭ HeidiHeidi


    The gazillion traffic cones are bordering on dangerous, IMO. One of those clipped and sent flying will take out a cyclist/pedestrian no problem.

    And they're dog-ugly to boot.

    There are definitely ways of sensitively inserting crossing points in the main road, no need for traffic lights, as Larbre34 said, the roundabouts were recently re-done in away that's sympathetic to the park, but in a way that forces traffic to slow right down.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭ VonLuck


    I'm not sure what you mean by "speed isn't limited to the main ave". Speeding or speed limits?

    I don't know how you could think Chesterfield has poor sight lines. You couldn't ask for better sight lines! It's an entirely straight road and obstructions (i.e. trees) are set back a significant distance. Maybe you mean something else?



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 32,287 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Seth Brundle


    If one of those cones is clipped, it is the person that clipped it that is being dangerous, not the cone. If the cones weren't there then that particular driver could just as easily clip a person on a bike.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,475 ✭✭✭ Flinty997


    The OPW bang on about cyclists but have literally built almost no infrastructure for decades. Cycling path at Parkgate street was unsurfaced, and a terrible state for a decade or so. Seems like only when a situation gets out of hand, do they actually take action.

    Its all very well trying to keep the park like its 1800. But its isn't 1800. I'm not likely to be riding my horse, or hunting deer in it anytime soon. The lack of signage cycling/pedestrian caused lots of issues in the past. I'm not sure how bright orange cones is a historically sympathetic solution for that either.

    The roundabouts is a junction. Its not a speed reduction measure. The only speed reduction measures in the park are the ramps.

    I think the OPW is getting high praise for doing very little tbh.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The lack of crossings was an issue when there was parking along the avenue, now it's much better with the cars gone, sightlines are excellent. I agree a slightly raised walkway, like the roundabouts would be perfect.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,475 ✭✭✭ Flinty997



    Speeding.

    Speed limits lol, the majority of cars don't respect speed limits.

    In heavy traffic sightlines are entirely obstructed.

    You're completely over stating most drivers situational and observational awareness.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,475 ✭✭✭ Flinty997



    Parking didn't help for sure.

    Traffic isn't back to normal levels. Maybe it will never get back to it who knows.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭ horse7


    Opw are a waste of time, they say there is enough car parking , but on Sunday the pope's cross, the zoo area, furry glen and Ashtown castle were all full.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭ VonLuck


    I'm not sure what point you're trying to get across. Are you for or against speed limits?

    Also I don't think you understand what sightlines are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,475 ✭✭✭ Flinty997



    sightline (also sight line), visual axis or line of sight is an imaginary line between a viewer/observer/spectator's eye(s) and a subject of interest. 

    There is no way of proving there is problem with speeding in the park, unless they create some data on it. As far as I know they've never done it. They've done traffic, but not speeding. Likewise you've no way of knowing there isn't.

    But we know across Ireland, and Dublin there is a problem with speeding. Phoenix Park is hardly likely to buck the trend. Especially since they don't seem to enforce it in recent years. https://www.thejournal.ie/national-slow-down-day-3-5580298-Oct2021/

    Though they did in Park in the past. https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055087125/guard-speed-camera-in-phoenix-park



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,475 ✭✭✭ Flinty997


    I don't really care what they do in the park. I'm just amused at the methodology, or rather the lack of one.

    I'd have hoped whatever they were going to try they wouldn't wait until after everyone goes back to work to do it. But predictably, they did exactly that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,287 ✭✭✭ raheny red




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