Police Shooting USA. Rayshard Brooks.

zpehtsfd

frag420 wrote: »

Did he have a hidden gun, did you see it? Did the police see it?

How did they know he was violent and very drunk? Did they scan his car reg and check first?

And if they did why not call for backup, that would be the sensible and reasonable thing to do eh?

He was IDed and searched initially, so no they knew he didn't have a gun.

joe40

washman3 wrote: »

The guy would be alive today if he complied with the police. End of story.!!

He didn't comply with the police so his death is justified?

Do you have children, maybe a young fella on a night out that doesn't comply with the guards.

I have a 14 year old and I'm sure he won't get in much trouble, but if he does I'm confident our Gardai deal with him, without killing him.

He doesn't deserve death for running away from the police, that is all that happened here.

lawrencesummers

weldoninhio wrote: »

He wasn’t just running away though, was he? He turned back, aimed and fired a weapon at a cop. Suicide by cop.

Do you think the Cop should get a medal for his bravery?

frag420

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

And what do they do in the meantime when attending calls or stops?

Protect and serve the community?

A radical idea I know...

lawrencesummers

I’m waiting for the first person to come on here and question his previous criminal record, as if it matters.

Timberrrrrrrr

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Do you think the Cop should get a medal for his bravery?

He ran, turned around and aimed a weapon at the officer, justified shooting imo

The Phantom Jipper

The police seem to treat tasers as non-lethal when they're using them willy nilly against protestors, but when confronted with one, it's a reason to shoot to kill.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

weldoninhio wrote: »

More hug a thug shyte.

How do you know he was a thug?

He was being civil and co-operative. Then they tried to cuff him, and he panicked... (we don't know why - there could be many reasons). But then the officers were guilty of panicking even more so than the drunk man!

Trigger happy and nervous cops is not a good thing when you are carrying a loaded gun. This man should not be dead - and in most other countries he wouldn't be. He'd be in front of a judge, explaining himself and probably get a slap on the wrist.

I'm quite certain, if those cops had asked him to co-operate and let them cuff him... he would have calmly complied. But he was drunk and he panicked. He's a black guy getting arrested by two white cops. They should have given him time for his mind register what was about to happen - especially considering he was drunk. He didn't deserve to die for the mistakes he made!

They shot him 3 times while he was running away. (Yes, he had a taser, but it's a non-lethal weapon with only one round). Shooting 3 rounds from a gun is not a reasonable or responsible reaction!

Danzy

lawrencesummers wrote: »

If that’s the case then answer this hypothetical question.

If a cop tasers somebody and it is found to be unnecessary should they be charged with attempted murder?

That's how the Courts see it, probably because if a officer goes down the attacker then has a gun and had demonstrated a willingness to use violence.

No, if the person tasered goes down, they're is nothing to suggest they'll be finished off.

When you point a weapon, anything that looks like a gun at a policeman, add in being demented drunk and already proved to be violent, you will be shot and rightly so.

Working class cops shouldn't have to die to indulge middle class activists often ideology driven views that have no evidence or experience to back.

lawrencesummers

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

He ran, turned around and aimed a weapon at the officer, justified shooting imo

....a non lethal weapon.

frag420

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

He ran, turned around and aimed a weapon at the officer, justified shooting imo

A non lethal weapon according to the US police force...

Why use lethal force against non lethal force?

Danzy

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

He ran, turned around and aimed a weapon at the officer, justified shooting imo

Exactly.


You can't expect to fight the police and draw a weapon and just expect them to wait and see if you take the back of their head off.

lawrencesummers

Danzy wrote: »

That's how the Courts see it, probably because if a officer goes down the attacker then has a gun and had demonstrated a willingness to use violence.

No, if the person tasered goes down, they're is nothing to suggest they'll be finished off.

When you point a weapon, anything that looks like a gun at a policeman, add in being demented drunk and already proved to be violent, you will be shot and rightly so.

Working class cops shouldn't have to die to indulge middle class activists often ideology driven views that have no evidence or experience to back.

No, the courts are able to tell the difference between a lethal and non lethal weapon, adding in your could have stuff is nonsense.


The cops here are clearly incompetent.
Being unable to restrain one person when there are two of them.
Being unable to talk the situation into what should have happened.
Having their taser taken off them.
Firing three times instead of once.

weldoninhio

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Do you think the Cop should get a medal for his bravery?

No, he just did his job.

Get Real

lawrencesummers wrote: »

And he would also be alive today if the cops hadn’t used lethal force to handle a situation that didn’t need it.

Quite easy to say though. We "know" that now. We've seen the footage. At nighttime, in the dark, if someone stops, turns and points an object at you, it's completely different.

There's a difference between shouldn't have happened, and a person genuinely believing in a few milliseconds, that they're in danger of being killed.

If you're told that you're legally allowed use a gun, when you believe your life is in danger. If you attend 100s of calls and they pass without incident. If you face this scenario and someone turns and points an object at you, it's down to a split second decision.

Can't sit down, press pause and analyse. Also can't afford to make a decision to "give it a few seconds" and "sure I'll go with the benefit of the doubt here to see what way this plays out"

weldoninhio

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

How do you know he was a thug?

He was being civil and co-operative. Then they tried to cuff him, and he panicked... (we don't know why - there could be many reasons). But then the officers were guilty of panicking even more so than the drunk man!

Trigger happy and nervous cops is not a good thing when you are carrying a loaded gun. This man should not be dead - and in most other countries he wouldn't be. He'd be in front of a judge, explaining himself and probably get a slap on the wrist.

I'm quite certain, if those cops had asked him to co-operate and let them cuff him... he would have calmly complied. But he was drunk and he panicked. He's a black guy getting arrested by two white cops. They should have given him time for his mind register what was about to happen - especially considering he was drunk. He didn't deserve to die for the mistakes he made!

They shot him 3 times while he was running away. (Yes, he had a taser, but it's a non-lethal weapon with only one round). Shooting 3 rounds from a gun is not a reasonable or responsible reaction!

He turned, aimed and shot at a cop. 3 shots is fully justifiable. It’s not Hollywood.

joe40

weldoninhio wrote: »

An armed Gardai shot himself in the leg the other day. Wonder if he’ll claim police brutality.

That's really funny.. brilliant bit of humour.

Danzy

frag420 wrote: »

A non lethal weapon according to the US police force...

Why use lethal force against non lethal force?

Why didn't the violent drunk inform them that he was proceeding to draw and point a non lethal weapon at them and they should trust him now that he wasn't going to kill them.

They knew he had no respect for others, driving a pick up so drunk he couldn't stay awake.

Why would those working class guys put their life on line for your Suburbia driven policing fantasies?

frag420

Danzy wrote: »

That's how the Courts see it, probably because if a officer goes down the attacker then has a gun and had demonstrated a willingness to use violence.

No, if the person tasered goes down, they're is nothing to suggest they'll be finished off.

When you point a weapon, anything that looks like a gun at a policeman, add in being demented drunk and already proved to be violent, you will be shot and rightly so.

Working class cops shouldn't have to die to indulge middle class activists often ideology driven views that have no evidence or experience to back.

Again, have you any proof for this claim at all?

And if it is true, why did the police not call for backup?

walshb

riffmongous wrote: »

Not anymore thank god, maybe now some some other person just asleep in a car won't end up being shot

Yeh, because that’s all it was. A man asleep in his car.

joe40

Discodog wrote: »

In any civilised country the following driver or the drive through staff would of simply woke him up probably with a toot of their horn. One has to wonder if the staff would of even called the police if he was white.

If police can't understand that, if you are threatened you back away, then they shouldn't be in the police. The rule is always to deescalate, calm the situation & talk. But American is totally different.

But I doubt that many of the hang em, shoot em & flog em brigade on Boards will agree.

Yeah the problem with some people here isn't racism it's a total lack of humanity.

frag420

weldoninhio wrote: »

He turned, aimed and shot a non lethal and obsolete weapon (as far as we know) at a cop. 3 shots is far from fully justifiable. It’s not Hollywood.

Fixed your post...

Timberrrrrrrr

lawrencesummers wrote: »

....a non lethal weapon.

Get shot in the face with one and come back to me, in the hands if trained people they are non lethal. In the hands if a drunk man running and aiming recklessly they can be lethal.

Danzy

Get Real wrote: »

Quite easy to say though. We "know" that now. We've seen the footage. At nighttime, in the dark, if someone stops, turns and points an object at you, it's completely different.

Lots of the activists can't conceive of problems or challenges outside of ones Daddy's lawyer can't fix.

There is a real class divide playing out here.

lawrencesummers

weldoninhio wrote: »

He turned, aimed and shot at a cop. 3 shots is fully justifiable. It’s not Hollywood.

Your at odds with the law so.

ExMachina1000

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

He ran, turned around and aimed a weapon at the officer, justified shooting imo

Holy smokes. I wasnt expecting that comment from you.

Respect

frag420

Danzy wrote: »

Why didn't the violent drunk inform them that he was proceeding to draw and point a non lethal weapon at them and they should trust him now that he wasn't going to kill them.

Why didnt the cops inform him they were going to put cuffs on before they did?



They knew he had no respect for others, driving a pick up so drunk he couldn't stay awake.

He was dropped off at the drive thru, he had not driven there drunk.

Why would those working class guys put their life on line for your Suburbia driven policing fantasies?

Eh thats their job, its not a secret in police academy that the job is dangerous. They talk all the time about howe noble they are to put their life on the line to protect and serve the community

.

Huntergonzo

First off, it's very unfortunate that a young man has lost his life under these circumstances, it shouldn't have happened.

But how stories are reported is very important, if you run this story as 'white cop kills black man who was about to celebrate his young daughter's birthday' it will cause outrage and violence, for eg, a Wendys has been burned down (well done 'protesters')

Why not report, 'cop kills man aggressively resisting arrest'. Why the need to stress skin colour in the media unless they're actively trying to cause trouble, but of course the media would never do that!

Timberrrrrrrr

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Holy smokes. I wasnt expecting that comment from you.

Respect

I'm not the lefty liberal some people try to paint me as

lawrencesummers

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Get shot in the face with one and come back to me, in the hands if trained people they are non lethal. In the hands if a drunk man running and aiming recklessly they can be lethal.

Nope.
Tasers are not lethal. Even when fired by somebody that’s running and drunk.

Anyone that has died in the past by taser is due to cardiac arrest. There are two cops here, if one was hit the other can shoot.

frag420

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Get shot in the face with one and come back to me, in the hands if trained people they are non lethal. In the hands if a drunk man running and aiming recklessly they can be lethal.

I agree, if the police had been sufficiently trained to de escalate problems like this before they get out of hand then this incident would not have happened.

The lack of sufficient police training meant the victim was able to get their hands on a taser.

Danzy

frag420 wrote: »

in that case you will have real world facts to back up your claims that he shot a non lethal taser!?

Odd that the cops all act like they are in a Steven Segal film though...

He pointed it, that was enough, if he hadn't the taser stolen and turned and pointed his finger, that was enough and reasonable justification for shooting him.

weldoninhio

frag420 wrote: »

Fixed your post...

We have video of him turning, aiming and shooting the taser. An “obsolete” weapon doesn’t fire.

zpehtsfd

Huntergonzo wrote: »

First off, it's very unfortunate that a young man has lost his life under these circumstances, it shouldn't have happened.

But how stories are reported is very important, if you run this story as 'white cop kills black man who was about to celebrate his young daughter's birthday' it will cause outrage and violence, for eg, a Wendys has been burned down (well done 'protesters')

Why not report, 'cop kills man aggressively resisting arrest'. Why the need to stress skin colour in the media unless they're actively trying to cause trouble, but of course the media would never do that!

Clickbait media. Massive new audience on these platforms. Times have changed.

lawrencesummers

Huntergonzo wrote: »

First off, it's very unfortunate that a young man has lost his life under these circumstances, it shouldn't have happened.

But how stories are reported is very important, if you run this story as 'white cop kills black man who was about to celebrate his young daughter's birthday' it will cause outrage and violence, for eg, a Wendys has been burned down (well done 'protesters')

Why not report, 'cop kills man aggressively resisting arrest'. Why the need to stress skin colour in the media unless they're actively trying to cause trouble, but of course the media would never do that!

Running away can hardly be called aggressively resisting arrest, report it wrongly so that people won’t object Publicly? Is that what your saying?

jam_mac_jam

I don't know if this would even be news if it wasn't for the timing. He fired at them. Ok it wasn't lethal force but its hard for the cop to judge that in the moment.

Tragic really that he died for a drink driving charge if he hadn't acted so stupidly.

The timing is terrible.

Esse85

The amount of crime, death's and carnage that results from alcohol is the bigger issue at play here.

Reduce alcohol and drug consumption and you eliminate many of society's problems.

frag420

Danzy wrote: »

He pointed it, that was enough, if he hadn't the taser stolen and turned and pointed his finger, that was enough and reasonable justification for shooting him.

Wait, your saying that even if he had pointed his finger at them that it would justify shooting him?

IO suggest you read what you typed out loud and listen to what you're saying!

weldoninhio

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Your at odds with the law so.

Cops are also taught to fire three times before reassessing the threat — a procedure known as "triple tap," according to Dr. Daniel Kennedy, a forensic criminologist.

Huntergonzo

zpehtsfd wrote: »

Clickbait media. Massive new audience on these platforms. Times have changed.

True enough, some people do love the clickbait rubbish.

Danzy

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Nope.
Tasers are not lethal. Even when fired by somebody that’s running and drunk.

Anyone that has died in the past by taser is due to cardiac arrest. There are two cops here, if one was hit the other can shoot.

Hard to convince them that they should let people shoot at them. Easy for you to suggest it, you are probably on much larger wage and never even seen a shot rabbit.

Class divide between the activists and the people living with the consequences is driving a lot of this.

Huntergonzo

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Running away can hardly be called aggressively resisting arrest, report it wrongly so that people won’t object Publicly? Is that what your saying?

No.

lawrencesummers

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I don't know if this would even be news if it wasn't for the timing. He fired at them. Ok it wasn't lethal force but its hard for the cop to judge that in the moment.

Tragic really that he died for a drink driving charge if he hadn't acted so stupidly.

The timing is terrible.

Victim blaming so?

ExMachina1000

Danzy wrote: »

Hard to convince them that they should let people shoot at them. Easy for you to suggest it, you are probably on much larger wage and never even seen a shot rabbit.

Class divide between the activists and the people living with the consequences is driving a lot of this.

National police strike is the way to solve this. A collective boot up the arse is required for those looking to defund or in some cases abolish the police.

The Minneapolis mayor got abused and screamed at for saying he isn't for abolishing the police. That's the mind set out there right now


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/07/us/minneapolis-mayor-jacob-frey-walk-of-shame.html

frag420

weldoninhio wrote: »

We have video of him turning, aiming and shooting the taser. An “obsolete” weapon doesn’t fire.

Ands a non lethal weapon does not kill its why the police use them!

And we are still waiting to know if indeed the taser fired, it could for all we know be a bright light that emitted when the trigger is pulled? We dont know if it was s single cartridge taser or a multiple cartridge taser?

Why didnt the other cop use his taser to subdue the victim, why meat non lethal force with lethal force?

jam_mac_jam

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Victim blaming so?

If you want yes?

Do you think he holds no responsibility for what happened to him?

lawrencesummers

Danzy wrote: »

Hard to convince them that they should let people shoot at them. Easy for you to suggest it, you are probably on much larger wage and never even seen a shot rabbit.

Class divide between the activists and the people living with the consequences is driving a lot of this.

They wear bullet proof vests, tasers won’t go through that.
They handled the situation badly.

Class divide and my shooting experience is irrelevant, but if your interested it’s extensive.

frag420

frag420 wrote: »

So it was the taser 7 they used was it...?

The x3 model has three shots, maybe that was what the police had in which case they had ample opportunity between the two offices to subdue the victim without shooting him dead!

That’s what I’d like to discuss, frag.

I just can’t stand the mistruths so far. Do we know the colour of the staff in Wendy’s who made the call? No. So we can’t say they the cops were called only because he was black.

He wasn’t parked up and asleep he was in the queue for the drive through and asleep. Was this why he was shot, No. If the cops wanted to kill him just because he is black they could have done so now.

Did he resist arrest, steal a taser, and aim it at the police officer? Yes.

Did the police act appropriately? I’m not so sure they did but I think it’s more to do with their training and fitness levels rather than because they saw a black man and wanted to kill him.

weldoninhio

frag420 wrote: »

Ands a non lethal weapon does not kill its why the police use them!

And we are still waiting to know if indeed the taser fired, it could for all we know be a bright light that emitted when the trigger is pulled? We dont know if it was s single cartridge taser or a multiple cartridge taser?

Why didnt the other cop use his taser to subdue the victim, why meat non lethal force with lethal force?

Why didn’t they shoot him in the lag? Why didn’t the cops commandeer a horse and lasso him? Why didn’t they shoot a lamp post and make it incapacitate him, they turn to each other and say “lights out”?

Because it’s not a Hollywood movie. It’s real life. The criminal resisted arrest, stole a weapon from a policeman, ran away, turned, aimed and fired a weapon at the police man. It was a fully justified kill. Hopefully the cop will take his PD to the cleaners for unfair dismissal.

lawrencesummers

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

If you want yes?

Do you think he holds no responsibility for what happened to him?

For being killed? Are you asking me if his actions were such that warranted his killing?

**** no. Shot dead while running away. **** no.

He deserves a court date, a driving ban, a resisting arrest charge and depending on his history once in court a jail sentence for resisting if he has a criminal history.