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Police Shooting USA. Rayshard Brooks.

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    #182
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Get shot in the face with one and come back to me, in the hands if trained people they are non lethal. In the hands if a drunk man running and aiming recklessly they can be lethal.

    I agree, if the police had been sufficiently trained to de escalate problems like this before they get out of hand then this incident would not have happened.

    The lack of sufficient police training meant the victim was able to get their hands on a taser.


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    #183
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,361 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    frag420 wrote: »
    in that case you will have real world facts to back up your claims that he shot a non lethal taser!?

    Odd that the cops all act like they are in a Steven Segal film though...

    He pointed it, that was enough, if he hadn't the taser stolen and turned and pointed his finger, that was enough and reasonable justification for shooting him.


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    #184
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    frag420 wrote: »
    Fixed your post...

    We have video of him turning, aiming and shooting the taser. An “obsolete” weapon doesn’t fire.


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    #185
    zpehtsfd
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭zpehtsfd


    Huntergonzo wrote: »
    First off, it's very unfortunate that a young man has lost his life under these circumstances, it shouldn't have happened.

    But how stories are reported is very important, if you run this story as 'white cop kills black man who was about to celebrate his young daughter's birthday' it will cause outrage and violence, for eg, a Wendys has been burned down (well done 'protesters')

    Why not report, 'cop kills man aggressively resisting arrest'. Why the need to stress skin colour in the media unless they're actively trying to cause trouble, but of course the media would never do that!

    Clickbait media. Massive new audience on these platforms. Times have changed.


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    #186
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Huntergonzo wrote: »
    First off, it's very unfortunate that a young man has lost his life under these circumstances, it shouldn't have happened.

    But how stories are reported is very important, if you run this story as 'white cop kills black man who was about to celebrate his young daughter's birthday' it will cause outrage and violence, for eg, a Wendys has been burned down (well done 'protesters')

    Why not report, 'cop kills man aggressively resisting arrest'. Why the need to stress skin colour in the media unless they're actively trying to cause trouble, but of course the media would never do that!

    Running away can hardly be called aggressively resisting arrest, report it wrongly so that people won’t object Publicly? Is that what your saying?


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    #187
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    I don't know if this would even be news if it wasn't for the timing. He fired at them. Ok it wasn't lethal force but its hard for the cop to judge that in the moment.

    Tragic really that he died for a drink driving charge if he hadn't acted so stupidly.

    The timing is terrible.


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    #188
    Esse85
    Registered Users Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭Esse85


    The amount of crime, death's and carnage that results from alcohol is the bigger issue at play here.

    Reduce alcohol and drug consumption and you eliminate many of society's problems.


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    #189
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    Danzy wrote: »
    He pointed it, that was enough, if he hadn't the taser stolen and turned and pointed his finger, that was enough and reasonable justification for shooting him.

    Wait, your saying that even if he had pointed his finger at them that it would justify shooting him?

    IO suggest you read what you typed out loud and listen to what you're saying!


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    #190
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Your at odds with the law so.

    Cops are also taught to fire three times before reassessing the threat — a procedure known as "triple tap," according to Dr. Daniel Kennedy, a forensic criminologist.


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    #191
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    zpehtsfd wrote: »
    Clickbait media. Massive new audience on these platforms. Times have changed.

    True enough, some people do love the clickbait rubbish.


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    #192
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,361 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Nope.
    Tasers are not lethal. Even when fired by somebody that’s running and drunk.

    Anyone that has died in the past by taser is due to cardiac arrest. There are two cops here, if one was hit the other can shoot.

    Hard to convince them that they should let people shoot at them. Easy for you to suggest it, you are probably on much larger wage and never even seen a shot rabbit.

    Class divide between the activists and the people living with the consequences is driving a lot of this.


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    #193
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Running away can hardly be called aggressively resisting arrest, report it wrongly so that people won’t object Publicly? Is that what your saying?

    No.


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    #194
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    I don't know if this would even be news if it wasn't for the timing. He fired at them. Ok it wasn't lethal force but its hard for the cop to judge that in the moment.

    Tragic really that he died for a drink driving charge if he hadn't acted so stupidly.

    The timing is terrible.

    Victim blaming so?


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    #195
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    Danzy wrote: »
    Hard to convince them that they should let people shoot at them. Easy for you to suggest it, you are probably on much larger wage and never even seen a shot rabbit.

    Class divide between the activists and the people living with the consequences is driving a lot of this.

    National police strike is the way to solve this. A collective boot up the arse is required for those looking to defund or in some cases abolish the police.

    The Minneapolis mayor got abused and screamed at for saying he isn't for abolishing the police. That's the mind set out there right now


    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/07/us/minneapolis-mayor-jacob-frey-walk-of-shame.html


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    #196
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    We have video of him turning, aiming and shooting the taser. An “obsolete” weapon doesn’t fire.

    Ands a non lethal weapon does not kill its why the police use them!

    And we are still waiting to know if indeed the taser fired, it could for all we know be a bright light that emitted when the trigger is pulled? We dont know if it was s single cartridge taser or a multiple cartridge taser?

    Why didnt the other cop use his taser to subdue the victim, why meat non lethal force with lethal force?


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    #197
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Victim blaming so?

    If you want yes?

    Do you think he holds no responsibility for what happened to him?


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    #198
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Danzy wrote: »
    Hard to convince them that they should let people shoot at them. Easy for you to suggest it, you are probably on much larger wage and never even seen a shot rabbit.

    Class divide between the activists and the people living with the consequences is driving a lot of this.

    They wear bullet proof vests, tasers won’t go through that.
    They handled the situation badly.

    Class divide and my shooting experience is irrelevant, but if your interested it’s extensive.


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    #199
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    frag420 wrote: »
    So it was the taser 7 they used was it...?

    The x3 model has three shots, maybe that was what the police had in which case they had ample opportunity between the two offices to subdue the victim without shooting him dead!

    That’s what I’d like to discuss, frag.

    I just can’t stand the mistruths so far. Do we know the colour of the staff in Wendy’s who made the call? No. So we can’t say they the cops were called only because he was black.

    He wasn’t parked up and asleep he was in the queue for the drive through and asleep. Was this why he was shot, No. If the cops wanted to kill him just because he is black they could have done so now.

    Did he resist arrest, steal a taser, and aim it at the police officer? Yes.

    Did the police act appropriately? I’m not so sure they did but I think it’s more to do with their training and fitness levels rather than because they saw a black man and wanted to kill him.


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    #200
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    frag420 wrote: »
    Ands a non lethal weapon does not kill its why the police use them!

    And we are still waiting to know if indeed the taser fired, it could for all we know be a bright light that emitted when the trigger is pulled? We dont know if it was s single cartridge taser or a multiple cartridge taser?

    Why didnt the other cop use his taser to subdue the victim, why meat non lethal force with lethal force?

    Why didn’t they shoot him in the lag? Why didn’t the cops commandeer a horse and lasso him? Why didn’t they shoot a lamp post and make it incapacitate him, they turn to each other and say “lights out”?

    Because it’s not a Hollywood movie. It’s real life. The criminal resisted arrest, stole a weapon from a policeman, ran away, turned, aimed and fired a weapon at the police man. It was a fully justified kill. Hopefully the cop will take his PD to the cleaners for unfair dismissal.


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    #201
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    If you want yes?

    Do you think he holds no responsibility for what happened to him?

    For being killed? Are you asking me if his actions were such that warranted his killing?

    **** no. Shot dead while running away. **** no.

    He deserves a court date, a driving ban, a resisting arrest charge and depending on his history once in court a jail sentence for resisting if he has a criminal history.


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    #202
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,361 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    zpehtsfd wrote: »
    He was IDed and searched initially, so no they knew he didn't have a gun.

    So they were 100% certain, others can make mistakes, especially in dealing with high stress conditions, so they should have bet their life.


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    #203
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    For being killed? Are you asking me if his actions were such that warranted his killing?

    **** no. Shot dead while running away. **** no.

    He deserves a court date, a driving ban, a resisting arrest charge and depending on his history once in court a jail sentence for resisting if he has a criminal history.

    No,I agree with you somewhat. It was excessive. They could have just kept the car and arrested him the next day.

    At the same time he turned back and shot the taser at them. I think they ****ed up in the moment. I don't think it's straightforward.


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    #204
    ChelseaRentBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 474 ✭✭ChelseaRentBoy


    He got why he deserved imo. If he's tazered the cops and then shot them you'd more than likely never even heard about this.


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    #205
    zpehtsfd
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭zpehtsfd


    frag420 wrote: »
    Wait, your saying that even if he had pointed his finger at them that it would justify shooting him?

    IO suggest you read what you typed out loud and listen to what you're saying!

    The courts ruled that a California PO was justified in using excessive force when he killed a man for pulling out a vape device from his pocket and assuming a shooting stance.


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    #206
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Why didn’t they shoot him in the lag? Why didn’t the cops commandeer a horse and lasso him? Why didn’t they shoot a lamp post and make it incapacitate him, they turn to each other and say “lights out”?

    Because it’s not a Hollywood movie. It’s real life. The criminal resisted arrest, stole a weapon from a policeman, ran away, turned, aimed and fired a weapon at the police man. It was a fully justified kill. Hopefully the cop will take his PD to the cleaners for unfair dismissal.

    HOw do you know he was a criminal before this happened?


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    #207
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,361 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    National police strike is the way to solve this. A collective boot up the arse is required for those looking to defund or in some cases abolish the police.

    The Minneapolis mayor got abused and screamed at for saying he isn't for abolishing the police. That's the mind set out there right now


    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/07/us/minneapolis-mayor-jacob-frey-walk-of-shame.html

    Those protestors were straight out of the most fanatical clergy of the 1950s.


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    #208
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    For being killed? Are you asking me if his actions were such that warranted his killing?

    **** no. Shot dead while running away. **** no.

    He deserves a court date, a driving ban, a resisting arrest charge and depending on his history once in court a jail sentence for resisting if he has a criminal history.

    He wasn’t running away! He turned and took aim at a police officer.

    ****ing hell


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    #209
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,361 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    frag420 wrote: »
    HOw do you know he was a criminal before this happened?

    They knew before he was shot that he was highly violent, highly intoxicated and had no regard for other's wellbeing. That was just from their encounter.


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    #210
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,361 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    No,I agree with you somewhat. It was excessive. They could have just kept the car and arrested him the next day.

    At the same time he turned back and shot the taser at them. I think they ****ed up in the moment. I don't think it's straightforward.

    I found a neighbour who was knocked down by a drunk driver, you never want to see what it did to him.

    I'll not point out how low an individual I think you are for your post.

    What if he used the taser to rob a car?

    What kind of circus do you want to inflict on people there?


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    #211
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    Danzy wrote: »
    They knew before he was shot that he was highly violent, highly intoxicated and had no regard for other's wellbeing. That was just from their encounter.

    And we know that he was not highly violent before they arrived as he was asleep.

    When questioned he said he has 1-2 margaritas at his nieces birthday party that day so hardy highly intoxicated and it is plainly obvious from the video that he is not highly intoxicated as he is not falling about the place or stuttering?


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