Allow me to explain why the 'All Live Matter' hashtag is awful.

Carfacemandog

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Yes, of a small-minded person. Are mothers not entitled to have any resemblance of life when they have a child? You are nitpicking as usual, the above looks desperate, sensational revisionism. Which says more about you, attempting to justify the actions of the murdering sub-human cretins that murdered her, as if she was asking for it and that it was her fault.

Nah, it could have been anything - but it is definitely odd. What we do know is they randomly went for a stroll, while armed, by the canal, at 3am and got in a racially charged argument where they called the other group "n*ggers" (weird how often that goes in hand with the "all lives matter" crowd) and each side pointed guns and shot at each other. Her other half doesn't even know if he did indeed actually shoot anyone or not. And she got killed.

It's sad that she died, it's even sadder that small minded people like yourself are trying to use it to push an agenda while completely ignoring some very important pieces of information.

Bonniedog

Floyd was a lifelong violent criminal who held a gun against a pregnant black woman during a house invasion. He was out of his bin on meth and various opiods when he died.

But he's probably one of your heroes?

SlowMotion321

Bonniedog wrote: »

Floyd was a lifelong violent criminal who held a gun against a pregnant black woman during a house invasion. He was out of his bin on meth and various opiods when he died.

But he's probably one of your heroes?

That may be all true (I haven't checked so i assume you are correct) Does that justify his death without due process?

Cupatae

Bonniedog wrote: »

Floyd was a lifelong violent criminal who held a gun against a pregnant black woman during a house invasion. He was out of his bin on meth and various opiods when he died.

But he's probably one of your heroes?

Shhh now dont be telling the cold tough truth.. they not able for that we gotta keep the narrative rolling!

White people being attacked now for being white, but the media wont call it a hate crime, that couple in St.Louis that defended there home after it was invaded by the "peaceful" mob.. have had there house raided and guns taken from them, nothing done to the people that smashed down the gate of there house tho.

Theres alot of really messed up people supporting this cause.

Cupatae

SlowMotion321 wrote: »

That may be all true (I haven't checked so i assume you are correct) Does that justify his death without due process?

Did his death justify highly charged racial motivated riots? Apparently it does when BLM want to twist the narrative, where was the racism in his death?

Lets call a spade a spade BLM is a hypocritical movement being driven by media led sympathy, you cant even talk out against it but your a racist, even the name stops all discussion, you cant question what they do because they just throw "Oh so you dont think black lives matter?!!" .

BattleCorp

Cupatae wrote: »

Shhh now dont be telling the cold tough truth.. they not able for that we gotta keep the narrative rolling!

White people being attacked now for being white, but the media wont call it a hate crime, that couple in St.Louis that defended there home after it was invaded by the "peaceful" mob.. have had there house raided and guns taken from them, nothing done to the people that smashed down the gate of there house tho.

Theres alot of really messed up people supporting this cause.

While I was sympathetic to BLM at the start (when George Floyd was killed - illegally in my opinion), I'm very unsympathetic to them now seeing as how events are unfolding. I'm actually much further down the line than unsympathetic.

SlowMotion321

Cupatae wrote: »

Did his death justify highly charged racial motivated riots? Apparently it does when BLM want to twist the narrative, where was the racism in his death?

That doesn't answer my question it merely raises different points!

SlowMotion321

Cupatae wrote: »

Did his death justify highly charged racial motivated riots? Apparently it does when BLM want to twist the narrative, where was the racism in his death?

Lets call a spade a spade BLM is a hypocritical movement being driven by media led sympathy, you cant even talk out against it but your a racist, even the name stops all discussion, you cant question what they do because they just throw "Oh so you dont think black lives matter?!!" .

My issue is with an unlawful killing of a civilian (his crimes don't really matter) as for bandwagon jumpers and the issues with them I think is a seperate debate, unfortunately the two are inextricably linked in many peoples minds!

Cupatae

BattleCorp wrote: »

While I was sympathetic to BLM at the start (when George Floyd was killed - illegally in my opinion), I'm very unsympathetic to them now seeing as how events are unfolding. I'm actually much further down the line than unsympathetic.

I was the same, of course black lives matter but its a really twisted movement at this stage and is being used to justify all sort of behavior its messed up, They ve alot of stupid easily led followers..who think there doing the right thing, which makes the situation extremely dangerous.

SlowMotion321

Cupatae wrote: »

I was the same, of course black lives matter but its a really twisted movement at this stage and is being used to justify all sort of behavior its messed up, They ve alot of stupid easily led followers..who think there doing the right thing, which makes the situation extremely dangerous.

I worry that you may be correct here and that is a point that scares me (not that you made it the point itself!

Overheal

biko wrote: »

BLM has been raiding the public facebook of Jessica Whitaker, the white woman that they murdered in Indiana.
They are celebrating her death and mocking her family members.




twitter.com/de_dust2Blepe/status/1282775224807829505

Detestable behavior but how are we certain these are BLM members? Only Yemerzon here makes a mention - nobody likes his post.

Cupatae

SlowMotion321 wrote: »

My issue is with an unlawful killing of a civilian (his crimes don't really matter) as for bandwagon jumpers and the issues with them I think is a seperate debate, unfortunately the two are inextricably linked in many peoples minds!

Well id be of the same opinion as you, to me it was a man murdered by a cop, race had nothing to do with it till BLM injected it into the situation..his crimes kinda do matter in the grand scheme of things and what led him to his interaction with the police in the first place but we could go back and forth on that alll day.

Cupatae

Overheal wrote: »

Detestable behavior but how are we certain these are BLM members?

Ah come on now, its a little too convenient to exonerated blm, from every single bit of negativity that has come with all these riots, lets not forget who incited them, they have blood on there hands, its a convenient cop out to keep the crimes being committed and blm separate.

Overheal

Cupatae wrote: »

Ah come on now, its a little too convenient to exonerated blm, from every single bit of negativity that has come with all these riots, lets not forget who incited them, they have blood on there hands, its a convenient cop out to keep the crimes being committed and blm separate.

The Boogaloo Movement?

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/boogaloo-boys-george-floyd-protests-black-lives-matter-1010117/

Three men with military backgrounds have been arrested and charged with conspiracy to instigate violence at the Las Vegas protests against the death of George Floyd.

According to authorities, Andrew Lynam Jr., 23, Stephen Parshall, 35, and William Loomis, 40, all met at an anti-lockdown protest in April and self-identified as “boogaloo” boys, a term used to describe those calling for a violent civil conflict. They were arrested on Saturday on their way to a protest in downtown Las Vegas, after filling gas cans and making Molotov cocktails in glass bottles. They face federal charges of conspiracy to damage and destroy by fire and explosives, and possession of unregistered firearms. They are currently each being held on $1 million bond, according to the Star Tribune. They have not yet entered a plea.

Their intention was “to hopefully create civil unrest and rioting throughout Las Vegas,” a complaint filed in Las Vegas District Court on Wednesday said. (Rolling Stone reached out to the three men on Facebook for comment, and have yet to hear back.)

ELM327

Cupatae wrote: »

Ah come on now, its a little too convenient to exonerated blm, from every single bit of negativity that has come with all these riots, lets not forget who incited them, they have blood on there hands, its a convenient cop out to keep the crimes being committed and blm separate.

+1
Considering BLM is a racist and black supremacist movement supporting these thugs and looters, they are one and the same.

Carfacemandog

Bonniedog wrote: »

New York had 2,262 murders in 1990.

That fell to 292 in 2017 after years of proactive policing. So you could argue that 59,000 murders were prevented by the policies you sneer at.

There has been significant increase this year on back of anarchy being promoted by Democrat extremists through BLM.

NYPD's most recent response was to stand down 600 plain clothes detectives!

But don't take my word for it:

nypost.com/2020/06/15/murder-is-rising-but-new-york-doesnt-seem-to-care/

Why would I rely on your or the fecking New York Post's word when I can just use the actual NYPD statistics to show you that violent crime is down this year in total:

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cs-en-us-city.pdf
https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_planning/historical-crime-data/seven-major-felony-offenses-2000-2019.pdf

As you agree, all incidences should have skyrocketed across the board, not only because of the large scale riots and anarchy as you put it, but also due to the fact that broken windows has been out of practice for half a decade now.

Burglary is indeed up on last year, but yet is still actually lower than it was at any point in the era of broken windows. If BW was to thank for lower burglary rates, this would be higher than it was under the policy. I mean, not only is BW gone for years now, but there's huge rioting and anarchy in the streets going on.

Grand larceny auto is also up on last year hugely (again, riots) but is still below anything it was a decade ago. From 2016-19, with no broken windows policy in place, NY saw the four lowest years of this crime in memory. If broken windows was to thank for lower GLA rates, this would have been impossible.

Murder is up on last year (as you said, riots), but still less than it ever was under any year broken windows was in effect, and along with the the three years since BW ended, is still one of the four lowest years in the city's history. If Broken Windows was to thank for lower murder rates, murder rates would be higher than under the policy. Yet they are is lower, despite the huge riots and anarchy you referred to.

Robbery is actually down on last year despite the riots, and is lower than it was at any point under broken windows. If BW was to thank for lower robbery rates, these would be higher than under the policy. I mean, they've had huge riots as you recall. But nope, the robbery numbers are lower.

Rape is way down on last year, and is on pace to be the second lowest year on record (after 2009). This had however gone up in 2018 and 2019 after remaining completely static for the two years following broken windows being disbanded; rape is up across the US and much of the globe, attributed by many to the MeToo movement in part. Again though, this year is on pace for the second lowest on record despite anarchy and riots on the streets, which I found surprising.

Felony assault is also down this year despite those riots, and it has remained almost completely static from years before broken windows ended. If BW was to thank for this, then it would have gone up from 2016 onwards. But it didn't.

The fact is, reality just doesn't support your claims and continuing to try and regurgitate the same talking points while refusing to acknowledge the clear facts ("sneers" as you put it) being put in front of you (including that BW was founded by misrepresenting a single line in a study that had an entirely different conclusion, and elements of it were ruled unconstitutional and discriminatory in the US courts) won't change that.

---

Giving you an example of the flip side, next door to NY in NJ, two notoriously dangerous cities - Camden and Newark - have seen crime rates absolutely plummet over the last 6-7 years or so. Camden (the most dangerous city in the US in 2014) was seen a 41% drop since then and is now safer than any point since the 1960s, while Newark has seen a 51% drop since 2011.

How did they achieve this? Ibn 2013, Camden outright disbanded it's police force and union (which often does more bad than good and his hated by many police chiefs - see: Bob Kroll), and rehired officers under the local jurisdiction instead while putting a strong emphasis on anti-bias and use of force programs (as well as limiting the force they can use in circumstances). Excessive force complaints plague broken windows policies, but last year Camden had a grand total of 3, and as I said crime is down 41% in well under a decade.

In Newark (the home of an older race riot based on police beating the sh*t out of a black guy) they have defunded the police, put a strong emphasis on community policing techniques and reducing police brutality; the funds taken out have been put into several other measures, including the likes of the Street Team who look to assist in incidents where they may be more appropriate than a police officer. Needless to say the police union (which has proven to be quite a negative force in US law enforcement which many police captains hate) has been outraged about this, and are fighting it tooth and nail in many instances... despite both crime (down 51%) and police brutality complaints plummeting in recent years (down 74%).

One city defunded their police and those funds to reduce crime in other ways (because 'defunding' doesn't mean stripping it of every last penny, which seems to be the opinion of quite a few in this thread), while the other just abandoned theirs outright and replaced it with one more directly under their control. Both massively increased training and programs for use of force and anti-bias recognition, and both hugely increased accountability among their police officers. Crime plummeted, and so did police brutality complaints. Somehow, broken windows - which serves to hugely increase police brutality complaints, lower officer accountability, and cause a breakdown in police/community relationships that the study which broken windows was based off literally says contributes these issues - simply wasn't needed.

Of course, it does help that socio-economic conditions improved over that time in those cities also, but I pointed that out several posts ago with relation to NY in the 1990s and 2000s also. That was due to a mix of an improving economy post 2013 or so, as well as from putting some existing funds to better use than buying a new collection of rocket launching Batmobiles or whatever the f*** pseudo-tanks they want to play their Soldier of Fortune with.

Carfacemandog

Bonniedog wrote: »

Floyd was a lifelong violent criminal who held a gun against a pregnant black woman during a house invasion. He was out of his bin on meth and various opiods when he died.

But he's probably one of your heroes?

If we didn't know what happened to George Floyd and there were good as no witnesses, then it may have been quite easy for the officers to claim he was violently struggling and they were just trying to keep a fairly large man with drug problems and a violent history at bay.

We do know what happened there though. Because all 8 minutes 46 seconds of it were caught right on camera for the world to see.

Chauvin and the other 3 did not show up to him trying to kill someone. They did not show up to him acting violent. They showed up to him having used a fake $20 to buy a pack of smokes, sat in his car and very clearly not being violent. What they had to go by was that a black guy had used a fake $20, and they killed him for it (and/or to prove a "I am the law!" type point to the teenage girl who wouldn't stop videotaping the incident).

The fact he wasn't a good guy doesn't change that one bit, which you are well aware of as every second of the incident is on video, many points from multiple angles.

ELM327

Bonniedog wrote: »

Floyd was a lifelong violent criminal who held a gun against a pregnant black woman during a house invasion. He was out of his bin on meth and various opiods when he died.

But he's probably one of your heroes?

Never let the facts get in the way of a good old leftist anti-white rant

Carfacemandog

ELM327 wrote: »

Never let the facts get in the way of a good old leftist anti-white rant

What 'fact' are they stating there that have anything to do with the discussion at hand?

Because Floyd certainly is no hero of mine, but that doesn't mean he deserved to be killed for using a fake $20 bill.

Do you think he should have been killed on the street for using a fake $20 bill?
Do you think he should have been killed on the street for being high (if he was)?

Those are not sarcastic questions by the way, because you have already called for slaughtering people for entering the home of a man who had literally invited them in. You're a bit fond of the auld violence going by your posting history, so it wouldn't surprise me much if you answered 'yes' to one or both of the above questions.

mrkiscool2

Cupatae wrote: »

Well id be of the same opinion as you, to me it was a man murdered by a cop, race had nothing to do with it till BLM injected it into the situation..his crimes kinda do matter in the grand scheme of things and what led him to his interaction with the police in the first place but we could go back and forth on that alll day.

But when you consider that this doesn't happen to white people in the States then it is aboit race.

sid waddell

ELM327 wrote: »

+1
Considering BLM is a racist and black supremacist movement supporting these thugs and looters, they are one and the same.

It's always very funny to see the same people who will perform Olympic standard mental gymnastics to deny white racism be so intent on mendaciously branding anything identified with "left" politics as "racist".

Fake white victimhood is a bizarre, creepy cult.

SlowMotion321

Racism is colourblind!

Bonniedog

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Because Floyd certainly is no hero of mine, but that doesn't mean he deserved to be killed for using a fake $20 bill.

.

Why are BLM's heroes all of the same cloth? Criminals.

Black civil rights movement had real heroes like Rosa Parks and MLK and the people who died fighting for their constitutional rights. Not burglars and junkies and muggers who make up the BLM pantheon.

Indeed the contagion started in 60s when BLM and antifa antecedents laughed at King and the freedom riders as Uncle Toms and made heroes of scum like the Panthers and George Jackson.

Cupatae

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

But when you consider that this doesn't happen to white people in the States then it is aboit race.

What makes you think it doesn't happen to white people ?

Cupatae

sid waddell wrote: »

It's always very funny to see the same people who will perform Olympic standard mental gymnastics to deny white racism be so intent on mendaciously branding anything identified with "left" politics as "racist".

Fake white victimhood is a bizarre, creepy cult.

Fake white victim hood? You'd want to have a look at how many white victims there are goodlad it just doesn't get the left buzzing as much as using racism as a stick.

You wanna talk about mental gymnastics there's a splendid display of it currently being performed by BLM and there cult of virtue signallers defending it.

Because who can say anything against an organization called "black lives matter"

You fair love your left and right politics tho been banging on about em for weeks now.

iamstop

Deleted User wrote: »

Explain to me how saying privileged white man is any less presumptive and prejudiced than saying stupid black man when discussing people we have don't know.

Especially as the term stupid can and is addressed to anyone, yet privilege is almost exclusively attributed to white people (especially men)

In America (and many other countries) when you are born white you are born into a system that overwhelmingly favours you over people who are not born white. This system is about 400 years old in it's earliest form and has only morphed to keep up with the times.
These advantages span almost all facets of living. From place of birth, to housing, to education, to job prospects to loan applications and many others.

Saying stupid black man to or about someone you don't know, based solely on their skin colour is just, well, stupid. It's ignorant and it's racist.

I hope this clears this up for you and you can now go about your life knowing that white privilege exists and have some idea about how it works. I can provide you further reading if you require. Drop me a pm and I can send you some stuff.

1800_Ladladlad

Isaiah Martin a BLM activist claimed in a tweet, which went viral, that racist messages were left on his car. There are videos showing that he placed them there himself. He is refusing to cooperate w/police. Probably afraid for his life. Police are not pressing charges. Hast tag Black privilege. His tweets were to stir up hate under the guise of victimhood. As Dj Khalid would say; Another one.


img

The demand for racism exceeds the supply.

"The word "racism" is like ketchup. It can be put on practically anything — and demanding evidence makes you a "racist." - Thomas Sowell

Bonniedog

Well as the despicable communist lawyer William Kunstler said when the Tanya Brawley rape hoax - led by the equally despicable race baiter "Reverend" Sharpton - was exposed:

It doesn't matter if she was telling the truth or not!

Cupatae

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Isaiah Martin a BLM activist claimed in a tweet, which went viral, that racist messages were left on his car. There are videos showing that he placed them there himself. He is refusing to cooperate w/police. Probably afraid for his life. Police are not pressing charges. Hast tag Black privilege. His tweets were to stir up hate under the guise of victimhood. As Dj Khalid would say; Another one.


img

The demand for racism exceeds the supply.

I'm not evening surprised I mean the narrative from the start was outrageous I mean it's a fair task to have every black person experience racism everyday in America that's some dedication by the racists

Carfacemandog

Bonniedog wrote: »

Why are BLM's heroes all of the same cloth? Criminals.

Black civil rights movement had real heroes like Rosa Parks and MLK and the people who died fighting for their constitutional rights. Not burglars and junkies and muggers who make up the BLM pantheon.

Indeed the contagion started in 60s when BLM and antifa antecedents laughed at King and the freedom riders as Uncle Toms and made heroes of scum like the Panthers and George Jackson.

I see you're eager to change the subject from your clearly lost argument on broken windows, to questioning why people had an issue with a guy being murdered by police for using a fake $20 bill.

The reason it resonated with people in the US is because it could easily have been them - Floyd did some horrible stuff in the past, but he wasn't here. He was literally smoking a cigarette in a car that he had used a fake $20 bill to pay for, and it cost him his life.

He could just as easily have been a teenager eating a packet of skittles down the road from his dads house and had the killer be let walk away from the scene and get off scott free. He could just as easily have been a 26 year old nurse enjoying a good night's sleep in Kentucky in between shifts of trying to help tackle the covid crisis on the front line, only be shot dead and have her partner charged with attempted murder for the incident. He could just as easily have been some random guy selling individual cigarettes on a New York street corner, acting in no way violent and just completely senselessly choked to death by police. He could just as easily have been going for a jog through rural Atlanta only to be hunted down like a dog (or "n*gger" to use their words) by an ex-cop and DA's office worker with it nearly swept nicely under the carpet and no charges filed or arrests made until public outcry caused it to go viral. He could just as easily have been a school nutritionist, killed for having his legally held gun kept legally in the glove compartment. He could just as easily have been a woman murdered by police for playing video games with her nephew in her own home. He could just as easily have been a 14 year old kid playing with his sister and a toy gun then shot and then left to die as they were too busy arresting her after. He could literally have even been at home, eating ice cream and had a drunk cop storm in and murder him. He could have been killed for walking down the stairs in his apartment building.

The fact that some of these cases came so close to each other - particularly Breonna Taylor and Ahmaud Arbery which were all over the news throughout May leading up to Floyd's murder at the hands of police - all came together, was enough spark to set it all off on the back of people already being frustrated at the state of their nation and a president who takes advise from outed white supremacists like Stephen Miller. Of course, had the response from the government and law enforcement been less awful, they may have been able to get this under control quicker. But they didn't.

---

I do love when people bring up MLK and peaceful protesting though, because black people had tried what is often called an 'MLK style' peaceful protest already back in 2016, and were labeled as scum and traitors for it. They received death threats, and careers like Colin Kaepernick's were ruined due to blacklisting for daring to peacefully protest. Leading those threats and insults was of all the people, the same president of the United States who has white supremacists for advisers, claiming it was disrespectful to the troops and flag... while also mocking dying American war heroes, calling all his generals idiots, insulting the families of people who lost their loved ones in combat... and outright supporting police brutality. In other words, it had nothing to do with 'the troops and flag' and almost everything to do with wanting those 'uppity negroes' to shut up know their place. That group of people simply didn't want to hear it.

Funny enough, once protesters took it to the next level, people started listening pretty quickly and now many have back peddled a lot on the stances they took in 2016. But if you actually had paid attention to MLK (who the FBI considered the most dangerous man in the country), you would have heeded that warning from over half a century ago:

"A riot is the language of the unheard."
- Martin Luther King.

Hey, how about another MLK quote while we're at it, because he was not the outright pacifist-above-all-else type that some seem to think. Not by a long shot. Going by the below, he would largely approve of these protests, including the rioting and looting.

"Urban riots must now be recognized as durable social phenomena. They may be deplored, but they are there and should be understood. Urban riots are a special form of violence. They are not insurrections. The rioters are not seeking to seize territory or to attain control of institutions. They are mainly intended to shock the white community. They are a distorted form of social protest. The looting which is their principal feature serves many functions. It enables the most enraged and deprived Negro to take hold of consumer goods with the ease the white man does by using his purse. Often the Negro does not even want what he takes; he wants the experience of taking.”
- Martin Luther King

And here is a quote from one of MLK's closest colleagues:

“I keep a shotgun in every corner of my bedroom and the first cracker even look like he wants to throw some dynamite on my porch won’t write his mama again.”
- Fannie Lou Hamer


Make no bones about it, many people like you would have been ardently against MLK at the time (as many were) and thrown many of the very same labels as you and others are so fond of are this thread, in MLK's direction for his criminal record, his views on rioting and looting, and his associations at times with people unafraid to use violence, so there's really no point in invoking him now.

And the majority of those who have such strong issues with these protests/riots, and claim to just want peaceful protest (while always super eager to invoke MLK), are the same ones who absolutely abhorred peaceful protest when Colin Kaepernick was spearheading it 4 years ago. And that is what led the situation to escalate to where it is today - that's as per the same MLK you wanted to invoke by me, not me.

Maybe people should have listened in 2016 and let them know they were being heard, rather than shouting them down as they did.