A 30 KPH limit for Dublin

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

Comparing in ear headphones on a cyclist to a loud car stereo is a poor comparison.
Loud car stereos don't drown out surrounding noise.

In saying that, the only person a cyclist will harm is themselves. A motorist has the potential to inflict fatal injuries or cause millions in damage.

CramCycle

Many modern cars are designed to drown out noise in my experience. Either way it's a silly point to bring up in a thread about 30kmph speed zones and is just strawmanning as it's irrelevant. Those of us who pay attention notice only a minority of cyclists have headphones. Don't wear them myself but when I did I could still pick up traffic around me. Plenty of motorists wear headphones but I wouldn't bring it up as it's strawmanning. A few cyclists do wear those Dr. Dre headphones, it's a very small minority. I'd say the number of people who don't notice an ambulance trying to get by because they are on their phones is far higher but again, that's just tit for tat rubbish that takes away from the point of the thread.

Is a 30kmph speed limit a good idea in a built up area. My view is yes, gives more time to take in everything, in the unlikely event of an accident it will hopefully be less severe and it's been targeted at areas that have high pedestrian numbers, which makes sense. Points against it, other than the vocal complaints of a few people who wish to hurriedly get to the rear end of the car in front, there are not any real ones in the areas listed. It adds on very little journey time off peak of people are already driving with due care and attention, and on peak, average speeds are way below that anyway so really has no negative affect at all.

It also highlights how poor some of our drivers are that so many think driving at that speed is impossible, I sh*t you not, that's been a genuine excuse by some. I've driven for over 25 years and with much of that in a city, not being able to drive sub 30 effectively means you can't drive for over 18 hours of the day in a city like Dublin.

A more worrying, and extremely child like view from some is the idea that they shouldn't do this as some people they know are breaking other perceived rules, therefore they shouldn't be tied to any. That is the 7yo BS that is being passed around as a counterpoint.

Chiparus

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

Comparing in ear headphones on a cyclist to a loud car stereo is a poor comparison.
Loud car stereos don't drown out surrounding noise.

In saying that, the only person a cyclist will harm is themselves. A motorist has the potential to inflict fatal injuries or cause millions in damage.

So you can hear the car behind you , with the stereo on?

Chiparus

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

As someone who both drives and cycles I am fully aware of how dangerous and thick ignorant it is. If you can't hear all around you you are a danger to yourself and others.

Let me hazard a guess. You're one of the majority of cyclists who never glances back when they pull into traffic/ switch lanes as you're fully confident the motorist will just slam on the brakes rather than go through the inconvenience of hitting you.

Cyclists should be subject to licences and points.

You see cyclists have a right to be on the road, motor vehicles, being so dangerous have to be operated under licence , which can be revoked if you are dangerous or a drunkard.

doublejobbing 2

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Would they apply to kids too?
:rolleyes:

No. Children and teenagers tend to have more cop on regarding safety than adult cyclists.

Seth Brundle

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

No. Children and teenagers tend to have more cop on regarding safety than adult cyclists.

Yawn!

micar

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

No. Children and teenagers tend to have more cop on regarding safety than adult cyclists.

Eh???? Have you seen some of the teenagers cycling on the roads??

No cop on or common sense.....completely oblivious to the dangers.

doublejobbing 2

micar wrote: »

Eh???? Have you seen some of the teenagers cycling on the roads??

No cop on or common sense.....completely oblivious to the dangers.

I think you're mistaking teenagers for 20- 30 year old Google/ Facebook workers from the continent.

Thelonious Monk

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

I think you're mistaking teenagers for 20- 30 year old Google/ Facebook workers from the continent.

You seem to really have it in for our Euro neighbours

micar

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

I think you're mistaking teenagers for 20- 30 year old Google/ Facebook workers from the continent.

Can't be bothered dealing with this nonsense

Seth Brundle

micar wrote: »

Can't be bothered dealing with this nonsense

Don't worry, mid-term is only for a week and then the juvenile attention-seeking posts will stop!

Zico

CramCycle wrote: »

It also highlights how poor some of our drivers are that so many think driving at that speed is impossible, I sh*t you not, that's been a genuine excuse by some. I've driven for over 25 years and with much of that in a city, not being able to drive sub 30 effectively means you can't drive for over 18 hours of the day in a city like Dublin.

I totally agree and between the canals it's been in place for a while, extending it sounds good to me.

On a motorbike this has greatly assisted my mobility around Dublin.

AndrewJRenko

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

A good 80 plus percent of Dublin cyclists wear earphones. As someone who frequently parks in one of the few remaining free pockets of parking in town and then Dublin Bikes it the rest of the way I can tell you anybody listening to earphones while cycling has a ****ing death wish and deserves anything they get.

And no, I've never used my phone while driving. I don't like talking on a phone on the bus ever mind while driving.

Have you used a car radio or listened to music while driving?

Interesting to note the apparent expectation of free storage space for your private property at public expense.

AndrewJRenko

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

Comparing in ear headphones on a cyclist to a loud car stereo is a poor comparison.
Loud car stereos don't drown out surrounding noise.

In saying that, the only person a cyclist will harm is themselves. A motorist has the potential to inflict fatal injuries or cause millions in damage.

Car stereos drown out MORE noise than cyclist earphones.

While listening to music will no doubt mask some outside noises, an Australian study found that a cyclist wearing ear-bud style headphones and playing music at a reasonable volume hears much more outside noise than a car driver — even when that driver has no music playing.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/should-you-cycle-with-earphones-in-297887

Chips Lovell

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Car stereos drown out MORE noise than cyclist earphones.

As the owner of

• A car
• A car radio
• Several bikes
• A pair of earphones

I can attest that the above is 100% percent correct

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Car stereos drown out MORE noise than cyclist earphones.



https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/should-you-cycle-with-earphones-in-297887

Fair enough! I'm a motorist and cyclist myself, albeit more of a commuter motorist and only an occasional fair weather hobby cyclist.

I'll be man enough to take this one on the chin m and admit when I'm wrong.

begbysback

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

Fair enough! I'm a motorist and cyclist myself, albeit more of a commuter motorist and only an occasional fair weather hobby cyclist.

I'll be man enough to take this one on the chin m and admit when I'm wrong.

This man does not represent us all, ear pieces have to be placed at full volume when cycling, otherwise they are ineffective, therefore if they are not at full volume and drowning out other road none then what’s the point in having them?

Amirani

begbysback wrote: »

This man does not represent us all, ear pieces have to be placed at full volume when cycling, otherwise they are ineffective, therefore if they are not at full volume and drowning out other road none then what’s the point in having them?

You may be amazed to learn this, but the human ear is capable of hearing more than 1 sound at a time.

Your "therefore" attempt at deductive reasoning could do with some work also.

AndrewJRenko

begbysback wrote: »

This man does not represent us all, ear pieces have to be placed at full volume when cycling, otherwise they are ineffective, therefore if they are not at full volume and drowning out other road none then what’s the point in having them?

Same as car audio systems then, except that cars have the additional challenge of engine noise to be drowned out too,, or what's the point in having them?

blanch152

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Car stereos drown out MORE noise than cyclist earphones.



https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/should-you-cycle-with-earphones-in-297887

That has no meaning to the point in question, only demonstrates your kneejerk response to any comment you perceive as negative in respect of cycling.

Drivers won't die if they are distracted from their driving by music, cyclists will.

It's all a matter of risk management.

Listening to music in a nightclub drowns out more noise that either a car stereo or cyclist earphones, but you're not going to be knocked down and killed by a road vehicle while sitting in a nightclub.

Seth Brundle

Let's have some of that here...

https://twitter.com/fietsprofessor/status/1321102128077807622

Amirani

blanch152 wrote: »

Drivers won't die if they are distracted from their driving by music, cyclists will.

You know that it is possible for people in cars to die when they crash?

440Hertz

It would be damn useful if they would enforce the 50km/h limits in the first place.

Rolling out 30 km/h signs and having half the drivers sailing past them at over 60 isn’t a solution.

I’d agree with 30 in dense areas but an enforced (with cameras) approach to 50 elsewhere.

In my view of it the big issue in Dublin and other Irish cities is impatient, agressive, road raging types. They break red lights, beep at people for no reason and seem permanently stressed. That needs to be tackled.

I think bad junction design is a big part of it too. There are illogical layouts all over Dublin. Lack of fly lights. Badly configured traffic light junctions that require agressive jumpy driving to get through.

Whole aim should be towards a calm, well designed space that encourages people to drive in a more relaxed way and share space.

I would also look at public service licenses (busses and taxis) being suspended if someone drives aggressively - breaks a red, breaks a speed limit or intimidates another car, bike or pedestrian by driving at them in a road rage like way. They should be held to a far higher standard as professional drivers & if they’re being calm and cool, it might shift the whole atmosphere.

Chips Lovell

Amirani wrote: »

You know that it is possible for people in cars to die when they crash?

Or for people they crash into to die.

Seth Brundle

blanch152 wrote: »

Drivers won't die if they are distracted from their driving by music, cyclists will.

Is there evidence to show that a bicyclist wearing headphones puts them more at risk than a pedestrian wearing them?

begbysback

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Is there evidence to show that a bicyclist wearing headphones puts them more at risk than a pedestrian wearing them?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S000145751730177X?via%3Dihub

For additional irony, yes the Dutch

magicbastarder

blanch152 wrote: »

Drivers won't die if they are distracted from their driving by music, cyclists will.

if drivers are distracted from their driving by music, surely this is a massive issue regardless? this is a stone cold classic example of switching the burden of responsibility of dealing with a danger, from those creating it, onto those exposed to it.

give me patience. this cuts right to exactly why we need limits. it's an out and out 'i'm all right jack' argument.

Thelonious Monk

Why are some motorists so concerned about me wearing headphones on my bike? I'm only going to harm myself if I crash. It's just another feeble stick the anti people on bikes crowd try to beat us with. I see them all the time with no high vis and headphones on!!! How dare they!!! They should be 100% committed to not being in my way or inconveniencing me!!

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Is there evidence to show that a bicyclist wearing headphones puts them more at risk than a pedestrian wearing them?

I think he means the cyclist will be injured if the driver is distracted.

cnocbui

Amirani wrote: »

You know that it is possible for people in cars to die when they crash?

Only cyclists lives matter. Why would you post this on a cycling forum anyway?