A 30 KPH limit for Dublin

magicbastarder

because that's where the taxi rank and pedestrian activity is?

CramCycle

SC024 wrote: »

if it's so short why bother at all ?

I'll tell you what, why don't you give a good reason why not that isn't easily dismissed.

Manion

magicbastarder wrote: »

the entire 1.3km of sundrive road?
it's not that wide, anyway:
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3228383,-6.2948187,3a,75y,154.29h,76.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1seccqouXWrItrCm3GYLpTaQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Seth Brundle wrote: »

As the speed limit has not yet changed I suspect there will be impatient drivers behind you.

Nonetheless, Sundrive Road is not an "open road". There are many junctions and is used by many vulnerable road users.
A quick google reveals how this road has had many incidents involving both fatalities and serious injuries.
Pensioner rushed to hospital with life threatening injuries after being struck by bus in Dublin
DFB dealing with serious crash at junction of Stannaway/Sundrive Road
Witness appeal after man (20s) killed in 4am Christmas Day crash
Appeal after woman in her 70s struck by car while crossing the road

I was just going to respond that I see a residential road with drive ways and parked cars and numerous examples of obstructed view, the type of road you'd want to be taking it easy through.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

Why do we still used manned vans in this day?

• Gatso men cost more in wages than they bring in.
• Some scum vandalise the vans with the men inside.
• They stick out like a sore thumb so people notice them then continue along merrily speeding once they've passed them.

Would it not be better to introduce average speed cameras on roads?

Advantages:

• They will have an initial installation cost but maintenance will be a fraction of what Gatso workers will be paid.
• They can be installed a few metres off the ground to prevent vandalism.
• They will force drivers to constantly obey the limit on stretches of road where they exist.
• They can be doubled up as bus lane and red light cameras.

Seth Brundle

In terms of them costing money - ideally you will takes in no money?
In terms of your point that they stick out like a sore thumb - why then are people still getting caught?

As for average speed cameras, this is a good idea. Unfortunately, they are not portable. The vans can easily move from one location to another within a short period of time.
The average cameras only work on the roads they are inserted on meaning that you will still need mobile cameras.

Chips Lovell

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

Why do we still used manned vans in this day?

• Gatso men cost more in wages than they bring in.
• Some scum vandalise the vans with the men inside.
• They stick out like a sore thumb so people notice them then continue along merrily speeding once they've passed them.

1 and 3 from that list are deliberate. It's meant to be loss making in order to avoid allegations that it's just a money grabbing exercise. The vans are meant to be conspicuous because intended to be a deterrent/reminder. If they were just there to catch people out, they could be way more sneaky.

magicbastarder

the problem with average speed cameras in an urban context is that journeys are far less predictable than on national roads, for example.
if you've 1km between two cameras on a national road, 80% of the cars passing point A may also pass point B. but in an urban context, it could be far less than that. so far less effcient a use of the technology (and more scope to avoid).

CramCycle

magicbastarder wrote: »

the problem with average speed cameras in an urban context is that journeys are far less predictable than on national roads, for example.
if you've 1km between two cameras on a national road, 80% of the cars passing point A may also pass point B. but in an urban context, it could be far less than that. so far less effcient a use of the technology (and more scope to avoid).

The idea would be that you would eventually have them at every set of traffic lights and possibly more junctions beside. Even if it only covers 75% of journeys, those obeying the limit will encourage/force others to do the same.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Why then are getting caught?

Driver not paying attention probably.

Seth Brundle

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

Driver not paying attention probably.

Probably but hopefully they then become more attentive (which makes them safer) or they slow down (which makes them safer).

CramCycle

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

Driver not paying attention probably.

For some, most locals will know the area. Some drivers will expect to be flashed and when they are not they keep going, others stare at the brake lights of cars down the road and then presume there isn't one when there is no braking and so on. The rest are people who aren't familiar to an area.

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Probably but hopefully they then become more attentive (which makes them safer) or they slow down (which makes them safer).

Certainly in the area the vans are, the benefit of wide spread average speed cameras is that eventually that speed becomes the norm everywhere. You also need alot of them because otherwise you get what used to happen in France of people speeding for half their motorway driver and then using the built up time to top up the tank, grab a coffee etc, which defeats the purpose. For the average cameras to work, you need slow but wide spread role out, after 30 days word gets out, you catch the serial offenders. Slow because, despite what some would say, I have no issue with the state catching dangerous drivers and making enough to pay for the enforcement out of them rather than you or me.

SC024

CramCycle wrote: »

The idea would be that you would eventually have them at every set of traffic lights and possibly more junctions beside. Even if it only covers 75% of journeys, those obeying the limit will encourage/force others to do the same.

shall we put cameras in your living room aswell?

Seth Brundle

SC024 wrote: »

shall we put cameras in your living room aswell?

Why? How many laws are being broken there?

kenmm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Why? How many laws are being broken there?

Yeah Cram, what ARE your up to??

:pac:

Hamsterchops

30 km/h is toooooo sloowwww . . .

magicbastarder

the latest changes have been kicked to touch by the council. if twitter is to be believed, it was really only the greens and soc dems who voted to push ahead (though that could be in relation to the cycle lane on strand road possibly).

Beltby

magicbastarder wrote: »

the latest changes have been kicked to touch by the council. if twitter is to be believed, it was really only the greens and soc dems who voted to push ahead (though that could be in relation to the cycle lane on strand road possibly).

Too right. They should enforce existing laws first instead of introducing new ones that will be ignored.

Hamsterchops

kenmm wrote: »

I've driven all over Europe, and most 'proper' cities have 30/40 km limits all over. In a variety of rental cars, different engine sizes, petrol and diesel. I've been driving for decades and passed my test in a country that actually does driving lessons and tests (remember when Ireland didn't bother with them??). If you are telling me you find this difficult to drive a few kms at slower speed, then the only thing obvious is that you should hand back your licence (if you have one).

As I say, its a bit of a pain in the hole, it feels unconformable at times, but I cannot accept someone saying its difficult/impossible.

Well after all the smart comments in this thread about me handing back my licence (if I have one), it seems like I am not alone in wanting the spread of this 30km/h madness halted, yet that's exactly what's happened as 56% of Dublin City councillors would be of the same opinion as myself.

"Councillor Naoise Ó Muirí (FG) proposed an amendment asking for a 40km limit on roads such as Griffith Avenue, Collins Avenue, Malahide Road and Oscar Traynor Road. He said it is not realistic to expect drivers to keep to a 30km limit on these roads."

RTE News today: Bid to extend 30km speed limit in Dublin city stalled.

http://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2020/0914/1165191-speed-limit-dublin/

bobbyy gee

my horse and cart can go faster than that

punisher5112

If people actually looked before they stepped out, run out, cycle out etc a lot of deaths would be avoided....
Implementation of laws already there and say around schools especially.

Kids have no place on roads and should be supervised at all times, seen as this is why this all started, extremely sad of course but eventually the way things are going it will be quicker to walk, cycle but this doesn't suit everyone and isn't always practical.

With all the new measures brought in under covid and changing of light sequence the traffic stop starting is worse then ever which creates more pollution.

Pinch Flat

Yea your right. Its usually the victims fault. Nothing to do with the speeding motorists. In fact most traffic reports on fatal collissions involving cars with pedestrians or cyclists usually refer to a car - no mention of the driver behind the wheel. Very dangerous things those cars.

magicbastarder

punisher5112 wrote: »

If people actually looked before they stepped out, run out, cycle out etc a lot of deaths would be avoided....

if people actually slowed down, and looked where they were driving, a lot of these deaths would be avoided.

the burden of care is on the people who are driving the vehicles, not the pedestrians and cyclists.

kenmm

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Well after all the smart comments in this thread about me handing back my licence (if I have one), it seems like I am not alone in wanting the spread of this 30km/h madness halted, yet that's exactly what's happened as 56% of Dublin City councillors would be of the same opinion as myself.

"Councillor Naoise Ó Muirí (FG) proposed an amendment asking for a 40km limit on roads such as Griffith Avenue, Collins Avenue, Malahide Road and Oscar Traynor Road. He said it is not realistic to expect drivers to keep to a 30km limit on these roads."

RTE News today: Bid to extend 30km speed limit in Dublin city stalled.

http://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2020/0914/1165191-speed-limit-dublin/

All I said it was it's not hard to do. It sounds like they are putting it under review because they want to do mixed mode 30/40 kmph streets. Just like the example I gave of how other European cities are doing it.
I think 40 is more reasonable on a lot if streets. So sounds like we are agreed (other than maybe the perceived difficulty of being able to drive a car at 30).

CramCycle

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Well after all the smart comments in this thread about me handing back my licence (if I have one), it seems like I am not alone in wanting the spread of this 30km/h madness halted, yet that's exactly what's happened as 56% of Dublin City councillors would be of the same opinion as myself.

"Councillor Naoise Ó Muirí (FG) proposed an amendment asking for a 40km limit on roads such as Griffith Avenue, Collins Avenue, Malahide Road and Oscar Traynor Road. He said it is not realistic to expect drivers to keep to a 30km limit on these roads."

RTE News today: Bid to extend 30km speed limit in Dublin city stalled.

http://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2020/0914/1165191-speed-limit-dublin/

None of that has anything to do with the fact that it was implied that you found it difficult to drive at or below 30kmph, despite the fact that most of the day traffic in Dublin is well below that. These are two unrelated issues. You admitted you were unable to control a car safely while driving. That's right, if you are unable to drive at or below 30kmph it is a strong indication that you are unable to control your vehicle.

This is far removed from Councillors who are worried about votes blocking the idea which is unrelated.

Hamsterchops

Listen up smartie pants, I have said time and time again that I think the 30km/h is a good idea in housing estates, but that it's virtually impossible to expect somebody to hold at 30kh/h on the open road for any length of time.

Accept defeat and acknowledge it.

Councillor Naoise Ó Muirí (FG) proposed an amendment asking for a 40km limit on roads such as Griffith Avenue, Collins Avenue, Malahide Road and Oscar Traynor Road.

He said it is not realistic to expect drivers to keep to a 30km limit on these roads.

Amen.

kenmm

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Listen up smartie pants, I have said time and time again that I think the 30km/h is a good idea in housing estates, but that it's virtually impossible to expect somebody to hold at 30kh/h on the open road for any length of time.

Except defeat and acknowledge it.

Councillor Naoise Ó Muirí (FG) proposed an amendment asking for a 40km limit on roads such as Griffith Avenue, Collins Avenue, Malahide Road and Oscar Traynor Road.

He said it is not realistic to expect drivers to keep to a 30km limit on these roads.

Amen.

Ok - you win internet - The grand inter-netters are collating your prize now. I admit it - you are the most awesomest.

kenmm

Serious tho - back on topic - I think 30s and 40s is a good mix. Last time I drove outside of Ireland it was like that - worked out well. Main thoroughfares were 40 (50-70 on some of the much larger arterial) and 30s else where.

Streets like Griffiths avenue etc will probably get more street furniture and infrastructure anyway - so the speeds will come down over time regardless.

Hamsterchops

40km/h (25 MPH) as proposed on those roads (as listed by Dublin Council) makes more sense.

magicbastarder

yep, makes sense - the average speed will go from 17km/h (with a 30 limit) to 18.5km/h (at a 40 limit), everyone wins.

Leonard Hofstadter

Hamsterchops wrote: »

40km/h (25 MPH) as proposed on those roads (as listed by Dublin Council) makes more sense.

It's still very slow, really. Not as bad as a mere 18 mph in old money, but not a whole pile better.