Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

facehugger99

iamwhoiam wrote: »

What is your point ? other nurses from other hospitals are worn out and burnt out after months of working in PPE under severe pressure

Pressure from what? The wards, admissions and A&E have never been so quiet.

My friend also noted, that the frontline staff who had declared themselves to be in the vulnerable category, were without exception the most work-shy layabouts.

I'm sure the correlation was entirely coincidental though.

TaurenDruid

setanta1984 wrote: »

Writing it into law, that you can go to prison for 6 months if you don't, is.

Nah. It's standard. Read pretty much any statute. There'll always be a so-called "draconian" maximum fine or prison sentence, that's hardly ever applied.

The gardaí have repeatedly stated their approach to covid policing is a sliding scale starting off with polite request and education with arrest as a last resort.

It takes a special sort of prick to just refuse to wear a mask on public transport or in a shop without extenuating circumstances, especially when asked, even moreso when asked by the guards, and I'd have little sympathy. Even so, if it ever went to court, the maximum sentence would not be likely.

pjohnson

facehugger99 wrote: »

Pressure from what? The wards, admissions and A&E have never been so quiet.

My friend also noted, that the frontline staff who had declared themselves to be in the vulnerable category, were without exception the most work-shy layabouts.

I'm sure the correlation was entirely coincidental though.

This the same nursing "friend" who has decided to go on hols?

TaurenDruid

dalyboy wrote: »

Your right , it’s not funny. It’s tragic. These so called hero’s infecting sick and vulnerable people is obviously fine in your world

You may have gone for the completely other end of the stick, there...

Not condoning it for a minute, but I can at least understand why, say, a porter on less than €30k a year before tax and a rent of €1800/month might not want their overtime to suddenly disappear.

thegetawaycar

The tin foil hat brigade out in force in this thread.

Loads of people moaning about wearing a face covering because it's the Government trying to control us yet they want a greenlist for foreign travel so they can go to Spain where mask are mandatory in all public spaces (in most regions).
Then complaining there is a punishment for breaking the law (maximum punishment does not mean everyone will get that punishment and it was made clear Gardai involvement is a last resort), sure let's have loads of laws where there's no penalty for breaking them, that seems sensible.

We removed most restrictions and people have acted like there is no virus so the Government pull back (even if it's just as an awareness tool it's the correct thing to do) it hopefully reaffirms the fact that we need to remain aware and vigilant that we are still in a pandemic.

Hopefully it's worked and we can keep numbers low over the next few months as once Flu season kicks in at the same time I expect a complete **** show.

KindOfIrish

[QUOTE=TaurenDruid;114102532]There is nothing "Draconian" about sticking a mask on for the 2 minutes it'll take you to buy a loaf of bread. It costs you literally nothing, and is literally helping save lives.

Expecting everyone else to put up with you potentially infecting them shows you've no idea what the social contract means.[/QUOTE]

There is nothing "Draconian" to close private businesses for months.
There is nothing "Draconian" to deny children education.
There is nothing "Draconian" to restrict citizen's movements to 5 km.
There is nothing "Draconian" to bar people from seeing their family for months.
There is nothing "Draconian" to restrict people's right for work.
There is nothing "Draconian" to restrict travel abroad.
Etc.
Everything is rosy on our blessed island under supervision of our wise leaders!

KindOfIrish

KindOfIrish wrote: »

There is nothing "Draconian" to close private businesses for months.
There is nothing "Draconian" to deny children education.
There is nothing "Draconian" to restrict citizen's movements to 5 km.
There is nothing "Draconian" to bar people from seeing their family for months.
There is nothing "Draconian" to restrict people's right for work.
There is nothing "Draconian" to restrict travel abroad.
Etc.
Everything is rosy on our blessed island under supervision of our wise leaders!

Its not Draconian if its proportional to the risk. Now we can argue the risk and there a lots of varying views, however the actions themselves are only Draconian if you accept the proposition the the risk is massively overblown

niallo27

Multipass wrote: »

This whole green list business is such nonsense. After months of not being able to walk outside more than 5km because of ‘danger’, it’s now suddenly ok to sit jammed in a sardine can full of people breathing the same air. Oh but they’re breathing it through magical masks, so that’s just fine. It’s mass insanity at this stage.

I though planes were freezing these days due to new filtration systems, i presume its very safe from all i have heard.

Multipass

niallo27 wrote: »

I though planes were freezing these days due to new filtration systems, i presume its very safe from all i have heard.

Amazing, maybe those filtration systems will be installed in health centres so we can start cancer screening up again. Safety has become entirely a matter of opinion these days.

Allinall

Multipass wrote: »

This whole green list business is such nonsense. After months of not being able to walk outside more than 5km because of ‘danger’, it’s now suddenly ok to sit jammed in a sardine can full of people breathing the same air. Oh but they’re breathing it through magical masks, so that’s just fine. It’s mass insanity at this stage.

Where did you hear this?

FintanMcluskey

TaurenDruid wrote: »

You may have gone for the completely other end of the stick, there...

Not condoning it for a minute, but I can at least understand why, say, a porter on less than €30k a year before tax and a rent of €1800/month might not want their overtime to suddenly disappear.

I would suggest someone with a gross salary of 30k should perhap's choose not to spend over 21k of that renting an apartment in Dublin city centre.

Its grossly irresponsible as a health care worker to turn up to work infected with the virus all because the overtime premium is at risk.

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I would suggest someone with a gross salary of 30k should perhap's choose not to spend over 21k of that renting an apartment in Dublin city centre.

Its grossly irresponsible as a health care worker to turn up to work infected with the virus all because the overtime premium is at risk.

This is a rare one Fintan, something I agree with you on

_Whimsical_

Dr Gabrielle Colleran said on TV last night that Ireland's acute hospitals hit 95% capacity last week, a week that is traditionally the quietest week in Irish hospitals and when rotas are swapped.

It doesn't bode well at all for a second wave, or even a modest spike that would eat up more beds and medical personnel time.

It's not just getting Covid you have to worry about if the situation has got to that point. It's getting anything at all that would require hospital care - inpatient or outpatient. It's really the threshold we have to watch and everything else must be secondary. Time for us all to forget relaxing restrictions and think about seriously tightening things up.

_Whimsical_

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Dr Gabrielle Colleran said on TV last night that Ireland's acute hospitals hit 95% capacity last week, a week that is traditionally the quietest week in Irish hospitals and when rotas are swapped.

It doesn't bode well at all for a second wave, or even a modest spike that would eat up more beds and medical personnel time.

It's not just getting Covid you have to worry about if the situation has got to that point. It's getting anything at all that would require hospital care - inpatient or outpatient. It's really the threshold we have to watch and everything else must be secondary. Time for us all to forget relaxing restrictions and think about seriously tightening things up.

Hospitals are playing catch up. If they weren't near capacity I'd be asking why not. Very few covid related cases. Also the measures that will remain in place even in phase 4 will also reduce Flu, colds, Noravirus, Rotavirus and numerous other viral and bacterial infections that result in hospitalisations every year

Well, the Higher Education plan has been announced today and requires 2 metre distancing at lectures.

If its 2M for students, then it has to be 2M for primary and secondary also.

Which means schools won't be reopening in September. At least nowhere close to capacity.
Maybe kids will get 1 day a week.

How long can we afford not to properly educate our children?

boggerman1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well, the Higher Education plan has been announced today and requires 2 metre distancing at lectures.

If its 2M for students, then it has to be 2M for primary and secondary also.

Which means schools won't be reopening in September. At least nowhere close to capacity.
Maybe kids will get 1 day a week.

How long can we afford not to properly educate our children?

And so the insanity continues.just close down the country altogether and be done with it.turn the state into a welfare state

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, the Higher Education plan has been announced today and requires 2 metre distancing at lectures.

If its 2M for students, then it has to be 2M for primary and secondary also.

Which means schools won't be reopening in September. At least nowhere close to capacity.
Maybe kids will get 1 day a week.

How long can we afford not to properly educate our children?

Third level lectures can easily take place on line which is why you minimise risk where you can. There will be separate arrangements for younger kids, and the indications I have seen suggest under 10's at least will not be social distancing. Unless the unions kick up looking for more holidays

Multipass

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, the Higher Education plan has been announced today and requires 2 metre distancing at lectures.

If its 2M for students, then it has to be 2M for primary and secondary also.

Which means schools won't be reopening in September. At least nowhere close to capacity.
Maybe kids will get 1 day a week.

How long can we afford not to properly educate our children?

We’re just on self destruct now, it’s gone beyond stupid. And the smart students who are trying to get out of this country to study abroad can’t do so because of the delay in releasing the leaving cert results. Utter sh*t show.

Golf is my Game

KrustyUCC wrote: »

The issue is with thinking like yours and the one size fits all approach

The issue with thinking like yours is thinking laws don't can be not one size fits all. It would be great if you could have what's possible as the best in every scenario but you can't write laws like that. Theirs always going to be the person saying why or we restricted, there's no bother if we did this or that, we could have more people, it's even safer than X so why can't it be open etc. But have have to write them to cover everything even the worst case. So that's why.

tobefrank321

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, the Higher Education plan has been announced today and requires 2 metre distancing at lectures.

If its 2M for students, then it has to be 2M for primary and secondary also.

Which means schools won't be reopening in September. At least nowhere close to capacity.
Maybe kids will get 1 day a week.

How long can we afford not to properly educate our children?

There is something seriously wrong if schools and the dept of education didn't come up with several contingency plans over the summer, 1 m, 2 m, rotating classrooms and as a last resort online only. To the point where kids education is unaffected.

But I'm guessing it will turn into another mess, where kids education suffer.

Governments in this country always wait for the disaster to happen and then try to claim credit for cleaning up the mess they created.

Golf is my Game

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Its not Draconian if its proportional to the risk. Now we can argue the risk and there a lots of varying views, however the actions themselves are only Draconian if you accept the proposition the the risk is massively overblown

We can have varying views fair enough, but really the most of them don't matter because the only one that does is the one that feeds into the ministers making the laws. So the rest of us half to go with that as Therese no point having every one doing their own thing for their views. That's just a mess then.

TaurenDruid

KindOfIrish wrote: »

There is nothing "Draconian" to close private businesses for months.
There is nothing "Draconian" to deny children education.
There is nothing "Draconian" to restrict citizen's movements to 5 km.
There is nothing "Draconian" to bar people from seeing their family for months.
There is nothing "Draconian" to restrict people's right for work.
There is nothing "Draconian" to restrict travel abroad.
Etc.
Everything is rosy on our blessed island under supervision of our wise leaders!

All of those measures (without your hyperbole) were introduced as a direct result of the perceived risk from an uncontrolled pandemic.

As we managed to flatten the curve successfully - thanks in large part to those measures - all of those restrictions have been lifted, bar the opening of some businesses.

Given the recent spike in the R number, that caution seems warranted.

Did our "wise leaders" get everything right? Hell no. Could they have done better? With hindsight, yes. They could have closed our borders to continental Europe and especially northern Italy when the Six Nations match with Italy was cancelled. They could have closed the ports to the UK and/or insisted on testing around the time of Cheltenham. That might actually have been classed as "draconian" but it would have drastically reduced our infection and death numbers.

TaurenDruid

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I would suggest someone with a gross salary of 30k should perhap's choose not to spend over 21k of that renting an apartment in Dublin city centre.

You live near where the work is, or where the transport to the work is. Your rent might have started out at a reasonable enough 1k a month a few years ago, that you and your partner could afford, or the four of you in a house could afford, and it increased steadily over the years as FFG (60% of whose TDs are landlords, I believe) made hay...

Its grossly irresponsible as a health care worker to turn up to work infected with the virus all because the overtime premium is at risk.

Yes, it is.

AUDI20

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Dr Gabrielle Colleran said on TV last night that Ireland's acute hospitals hit 95% capacity last week, a week that is traditionally the quietest week in Irish hospitals and when rotas are swapped.

It doesn't bode well at all for a second wave, or even a modest spike that would eat up more beds and medical personnel time.

It's not just getting Covid you have to worry about if the situation has got to that point. It's getting anything at all that would require hospital care - inpatient or outpatient. It's really the threshold we have to watch and everything else must be secondary. Time for us all to forget relaxing restrictions and think about seriously tightening things up.

Sure before the Covid-19 crisis weren't they at 100% with patients waiting on trolleys in the corridors, its not all down to Covid-19

facehugger99

Multipass wrote: »

We’re just on self destruct now, it’s gone beyond stupid. And the smart students who are trying to get out of this country to study abroad can’t do so because of the delay in releasing the leaving cert results. Utter sh*t show.

We were supposed to be buying a few weeks time for the institutions to get geared up by going into lockdown - that's what the billions of euros was supposed to get us.

Here we are months later, coming up to August and the health and education system are still a total mess.

The Government are more concerned with placating a load of hysteria-merchants on twitter than making decisions and governing. It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so fcuking tragic.

Bring back Leo to quote some movie lines - fcuking joke of a country.

_Whimsical_

AUDI20 wrote: »

Sure before the Covid-19 crisis weren't they at 100% with patients waiting on trolleys in the corridors, its not all down to Covid-19

That was my point, it's not down to Covid at all. Our system barely copes with day to day but now we're looking down the barrel of an illness that has the potential to give rise to a tsunami of cases of a highly infectious disease if not properly controlled. We are looking at an illness that affects health workers more than others or one that 2/3rds of nurses affected with are still reporting that they're suffering the after effects of months later.
We are looking at beds being taken out of the equation with covid but also healthworkers being put out of commission by it.

We could have mosied on with the broken system we have always had but with extra pressure on it God knows what we will end up with.

This talk that we open up everything and that extra measure and closures are just hysteria is beyond myopic.

is_that_so

facehugger99 wrote: »

We were supposed to be buying a few weeks time for the institutions to get geared up by going into lockdown - that's what the billions of euros was supposed to buy us.

Here we are months later, coming up to August and the health and education system are still a total mess.

The Government are more concerned with placating a load of hysteria-merchants on twitter than making decisions and governing. It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so fcuking tragic.

Education is a government issue, but the HSE is about Paul Reid and his team. They are aware of the weaknesses but it is like trying to turn a 60 mile long oil tanker, and things will not happen fast.

FintanMcluskey

facehugger99 wrote: »

Bring back Leo to quote some movie lines - fcuking joke of a country.

Whats our vector,Victor?

Roger that, Roger

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Third level lectures can easily take place on line which is why you minimise risk where you can. There will be separate arrangements for younger kids, and the indications I have seen suggest under 10's at least will not be social distancing. Unless the unions kick up looking for more holidays

I will be shocked if they do reopen.

Based on how we've already things like homeware, pubs and leaving cert, I just don't see it.

No plan's have been mentioned for schools reopening. And there are lots of noises about it not been safe for teachers or the kids etc.

A few weeks will pass and they'll announce that schools won't reopen. OR, they will reopen with extreme restrictions.

Multipass

Deleted User wrote: »

I will be shocked if they do reopen.

Based on how we've already things like homeware, pubs and leaving cert, I just don't see it.

No plan's have been mentioned for schools reopening. And there are lots of noises about it not been safe for teachers or the kids etc.

A few weeks will pass and they'll announce that schools won't reopen. OR, they will reopen with extreme restrictions.

I have friends lecturing in 3rd level who think they won’t be reopening, due to what they’re hearing from other staff members.