Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Goldengirl

DubInMeath wrote: »

Actually if you look at the history of treating outbreaks of contagious diseases it was quite common to quarantine whole towns and villages even in America for the last couple of centuries.

Never mind the fact that most of the Western world followed the same protocols !

Ginger n Lemon

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Yes, the fact is 55% + of 8 million "confirmed cases" have recovered.

But you wont see it or hear about it from RTE.

That is also a fact.

The 55% recovered is an incomplete fact - if only 55% have recovered, that means there are over 3.5 million active cases, and at 100,000 cases per day, more than 2 million of these are active more than 2 weeks, which means a pretty severe infection for all these people. But countries do not have a consistent reporting mechanism for recoveries, Sweden has no reports of recoveries for example, which makes this fact almost meaningless on a global scale. And that's why its not reported. It does not add anything meaningful. The Irish number is reported however as it is updated every week.

is_that_so

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Jesus Christ

More than 2,700 people are waiting for an urgent colonoscopy to test for bowel cancer, while almost 19,000 people overall are waiting for a colonoscopy.

I do love the way you pluck suitable nuggets out of an article and give a very false impression of their content!

growleaves

Seniors are becoming COVID-19 collateral damage. They're dying because of it, not of it.

ixoy

There's a survey here, asking for people's currently feelings on the crisis including restrictions, use of masks, etc.

Goldengirl

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Far from ignoring the evidence. But it is obvious that retail businesses operate in "challenging conditions" as early as 2017.

Issue I have is that now that our govt shuts them down for months and offers loans, and these business obviously liquidate, people say "oh they were in trouble anyways".

Thanks for providing links btw, as is Oasis and Warehouse are due to liquidate and add to the below list of "known" liquidations

Bewleys
Monsoon
Mothercare
Debenhams
Oasis - tbc
Warehouse - tbc

And now below reports coming out

Covid-19: Economy could take 3½ years to return to pre-crisis levels
Acting Irish Fiscal Advisory Council chair says ‘sizeable stimulus’ needed to help recovery

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/covid-19-economy-could-take-3-years-to-return-to-pre-crisis-levels-1.4280476?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fcovid-19-economy-could-take-3-years-to-return-to-pre-crisis-levels-1.4280476

Is this scare mongering about economy? Penfailed I need your help

Again you don't read beyond the headline or the first paragraph before you bang it up here with a facile comment .
Try reading the article , it'll cheer you up. It's not all negative .

Goldengirl

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Good news coming out

‘Major breakthrough’ as cheap drug found to reduce Covid-19 death rate
Researchers claim results suggest dexamethasone should immediately become standard care

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/major-breakthrough-as-cheap-drug-found-to-reduce-covid-19-death-rate-1.4280502

Maybe Leo will get some courage to open up cinemas now before August? August is just mere 1.5 months away, the classic 5 month shutdowns for cinemas in Ireland only.

Dexamethasone is a steroid in common use already .

Goldengirl

facehugger99 wrote: »

RTE pumping out project fear 24/7 and the Govt borrowing billions to pay people to sit on their arses, it's no wonder there's a load of clappy seals thinking we're doing great.

It'll be some fun when the bill for all this madness is presented to the Irish people to pony up and pay.

Repetition ..exact post on previous thread. .

growleaves

Another Judge Rules That Ohio's COVID-19 Lockdown Is Illegal

Ohio's COVID-19 lockdown violates due process and the separation of powers, a state judge concluded today, ruling in favor of a company that sought to reopen a water park without suffering criminal penalties. "This unbridled and unfettered consolidation of authority in one unelected official is dangerous grounds to tread on," writes Erie County Court of Common Pleas Judge Roger Binette, referring to Ohio Department of Health Director Amy Acton's orders requiring "nonessential" businesses to close. "If one unelected, unaccountable to the public official is allowed to invoke unfettered Orders [that] criminalize an otherwise non-criminal activity only for disobedience to her Orders, then the right to Due Process is extinguished."

Rodin

Charles Babbage wrote: »

They let the people in, but they tested them and they can test everyone they met.

Should have tested on arrival.
Or just not let them in full stop.

Goldengirl

growleaves wrote: »

Seniors are becoming COVID-19 collateral damage. They're dying because of it, not of it.

USA today ..you could change that headline to" Seniors dying because of poor healthcare in the States caused by Trumpian policies" but it might not go down so well with some here .

Penfailed

growleaves wrote: »

Another Judge Rules That Ohio's COVID-19 Lockdown Is Illegal

You do know that the American legal system is completely different to here, yeah?

growleaves

The Old Normal is Alive and Well in Paris

It’s important to note that it is only in and around Paris, and only for the next few weeks that we will continue to see these restrictions: they include schools reopening with capped class sizes so some students will continue to attend remotely; swimming pools, campsites, and theaters closed; gatherings in public places limited to groups of ten (enforced by roving police). The rest of France, host to fewer cases and a lower infection rate, are “back to normal.”

The much-mooted “second wave” which the media seemed to almost hope for so they could continue to be one of the few “essential” workers hasn’t materialized, and the president of the Scientific Council advising the French government has said that even in a worst-case scenario a second lockdown would be unacceptable for a number of reasons. Given that sunshine and fresh air are extremely effective (and free) deterrents against viruses of all kinds, not just the recent celebrity COVID-19, one wonders why we didn’t deconfine sooner. We were, in part, witness to the worst tendency of science throughout the ages: stubborn adherence to old beliefs and measures taken when we had very little data and information, combined with a refusal to modify hypotheses when in receipt of new information.

The states that slavishly imitated China’s extreme lockdown procedures would have us believe that they are so very different from the Communist Chinese, but the past three months have shown us that the same lie that animates the Chinese government has spread and infected the West as well: the State knows best. If those states were properly oriented toward the Permanent Things and eternity, perhaps we might believe them, but since they are manifestly not, we may not have to wait too long before they subject us to such a lockdown again…for our own good, of course.

growleaves

Penfailed wrote: »

You do know that the American legal system is completely different to here, yeah?

What a mad question. Yes of course I know that.

I've been posting links to stories about legal challenges to lockdown in all IV threads, including where judges in Malawi, South Africa and Illinois found lockdown unconstitutional (according to their respective constitutions (does that even need to be stated?)) and no I don't think any of these states are 'twinned' with Ireland.

Penfailed

growleaves wrote: »

What a mad question. Yes of course I know that.

I've been posting links to stories about legal challenges to lockdown in all IV threads, including where judges in Malawi, South Africa and Illinois found lockdown unconstitutional (according to their respective constitutions (does that even need to be stated?)) and no I don't think any of these states are 'twinned' with Ireland.

By all means, keep posting them. Not very relevant though.

MickeyLeari

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The big risk in Lansdowne or Croker is exiting and to a lesser extent entering. The flow of people out of the ground will have to managed, and will likely take 2 to 3 times longer to empty the ground even at 50% capacity

Solutions are possible - where there is a will there is a way.

MickeyLeari

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Good news coming out

‘Major breakthrough’ as cheap drug found to reduce Covid-19 death rate
Researchers claim results suggest dexamethasone should immediately become standard care

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/major-breakthrough-as-cheap-drug-found-to-reduce-covid-19-death-rate-1.4280502

Maybe Leo will get some courage to open up cinemas now before August? August is just mere 1.5 months away, the classic 5 month shutdowns for cinemas in Ireland only.

That article raises many questions.

is_that_so

MickeyLeari wrote: »

That article raises many questions.

Like what? The only one might be why they didn't use it earlier and the answer is it was untested in that scenario.

growleaves

By all means, keep posting them. Not very relevant though.

I think its very relevant. A policy that has been declared illegal in multiple states cannot be so easily presented as uncontroversial internationally.

Penfailed

growleaves wrote: »

I think its very relevant. A policy that has been declared illegal in multiple states cannot be so easily presented as uncontroversial.

Yeah, that was my point. If you have a different legal system, something that is declared illegal there has no bearing elsewhere.

MickeyLeari

is_that_so wrote: »

Like what? The only one might be why they didn't use it earlier and the answer is it was untested in that scenario.

Indeed. But when results were looking positive why was it not rolled out sooner. But I appreciate that a newspaper article is second hand.

growleaves

Penfailed wrote: »

Yeah, that was my point. If you have a different legal system, something that is declared illegal there has no bearing elsewhere.

Well then we're not in disagreement.

Except the legal challenge to lockdown in the UK would affect us, if it were successful, since we're sharing an island with them.

MickeyLeari

Penfailed wrote: »

Yeah, that was my point. If you have a different legal system, something that is declared illegal there has no bearing elsewhere.

We do have commonalities in our legal system with US, Canada, South Africa, Australia and indeed the U.K. not sure Relevant in this case but we are common law jurisdictions.

MickeyLeari

IMF sees ‘profound uncertainty’ about global recovery

Chief economist warns the Covid crisis was more global and playing out differently than past crises


IMF chief economist Gita Gopinath cited a striking divergence of financial markets from the real economy
The International Monetary Fund will likely forecast a worse contraction in the global economy than previously estimated for 2020 and sees “profound uncertainty” about the path of recovery, IMF chief economist Gita Gopinath said in a new blog.

Ms Gopinath said the economic crisis triggered by the novel coronavirus pandemic was more global and playing out differently than past crises, with the services sector hit harder than manufacturing in both advanced and emerging market economies, and inflation low across the board.

She also cited a striking divergence of financial markets from the real economy, which could portend greater volatility in financial markets and potentially sharp corrections.

The IMF is due to update its World Economic Outlook on June 24th. Managing director Kristalina Georgieva last month said the Fund was “very likely” to revise downward its already pessimistic forecast for a 3 per cent contraction in global gross domestic output in 2020, but gave no details.

Ms Gopinath said there were signs of early recovery in many countries that were reopening their economies, but new waves of infections and reimposed lockdown measures still posed risks.

While fiscal policy measures had been sizeable in advanced economies, poor countries had more constrained resources, and the informal sector had not been able to help absorb the shock as it had done in past crises, she said.

Ms Gopinath said pent-up consumer demand could fuel a quicker rebound in hard-hit services, but this was not guaranteed since consumers might change spending behavior to minimize social interaction, and uncertainty could trigger higher savings rates.

In China, one of the early exiters from lockdown, the recovery of the services sector was lagging, with the hospitality and travel sectors struggling to regain demand.

Ms Gopinath said the longer-term impact on tourism-dependent economies was a particular concern, and governments should pursue policies to reallocate workers from shrinking sectors to those with stronger prospects. – Reuters

Ginger n Lemon

Penfailed wrote: »

Yeah. They're not the facts as G 'n' L wants them presented though. Bad facts.

55% + of 8 million "covid cases" bad facts?

Are you having one of those Tyrone being part of Ireland moments again? :rolleyes:

hmmm

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Ms Gopinath said pent-up consumer demand could fuel a quicker rebound in hard-hit services, but this was not guaranteed since consumers might change spending behavior to minimize social interaction, and uncertainty could trigger higher savings rates.

In China, one of the early exiters from lockdown, the recovery of the services sector was lagging, with the hospitality and travel sectors struggling to regain demand.

It's almost as if consumers will want to see the virus under control before they will start buying stuff again.

Ginger n Lemon

Deleted User wrote: »

The 55% recovered is an incomplete fact - if only 55% have recovered, that means there are over 3.5 million active cases, and at 100,000 cases per day, more than 2 million of these are active more than 2 weeks, which means a pretty severe infection for all these people. But countries do not have a consistent reporting mechanism for recoveries, Sweden has no reports of recoveries for example, which makes this fact almost meaningless on a global scale. And that's why its not reported. It does not add anything meaningful. The Irish number is reported however as it is updated every week.

Why do posters keep posting this "if" rubbish?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

There is no bloody "if 55% recovered" its fact.

:rolleyes:

So you went off and posted all of your 100k new cases per day mathematics? Does anyone actually check the figures anymore or people blindly drool over RTE reporting "7 million cases" "8 million confirmed cases"?

hmmm

growleaves wrote: »

Well then we're not in disagreement.

Except the legal challenge to lockdown in the UK would affect us, if it were successful, since we're sharing an island with them.

I don't think the Irish Supreme Court is going to pay much attention to a Constitutional challenge to public health rules with broad cross-party support.

Ginger n Lemon

growleaves wrote: »

I think its very relevant. A policy that has been declared illegal in multiple states cannot be so easily presented as uncontroversial internationally.

It is very relevant. Please keep posting.

Judges ruling lockdowns are illegal abroad is irrelevant? barking mad :pac:

Ginger n Lemon

14 new cases today.

Totally worth keeping restaurants, barbers, cinemas, gyms, pubs closed for another week and a half. :rolleyes: