Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

FishOnABike

Jayesdiem wrote: »

But you haven’t answered the question. Why do you need precautions for a dying, largely benign virus?

The virus isn't dying. It's still the same virus it was back in February. It has just been suppressed by the unprecedented precautions taken. Remove all precautions and it will return with exponential growth. It is also far from benign, its case fatality rate is an order of magnitude higher than influenza and it is several times more contagious than influenza. Initial outbreaks overwhelmed hospitals before precautions were put in place to surpress its spread. Good enough reasons for precautions?

FishOnABike

Jayesdiem wrote: »

The same statistics re contraction and death rates in specific populations that you have. From those stats I know people below 60 yrs, in particular children of school-going age have next to no risk . This is not a joke: more children died putting their trousers on last year than have died from Covid this year.

How many children died putting their trousers on last year and how many have died so far this year from CoViD?

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

But seriously.. some people need to take a step back, stop reading every RTE/IT alert on CV-19 and start living their lives again. That's exactly what I've been at for weeks now and I'm not sick, don't know anyone who's sick, and everyone is getting on fine.

While your overall point may be valid, the above line is absolute nonsense. "I've been driving around without a seatbelt for two weeks and I'm still alive, therefore, everyone should stop wearing seatbelts".

brighterspark

FishOnABike wrote: »

How many children died putting their trousers on last year and how many have died so far this year from CoViD?

How many children will be still able to fit into those trousers? Obsetity is the real health threat to our children. What studies have shown covid being spread by kids kicking a ball? All outdoor sports should be free of ridiculous restrictions that make them impossible to play (eg not sharing a ball) Sports organisations in this country seem to be very reluctant or fearful to point out how ridiculous and impractical conditions/restrictions that have been imposed are for fear they will be not allowed to get back to sport!

_Kaiser_

Deleted User wrote: »

While your overall point may be valid, the above line is absolute nonsense. "I've been driving around without a seatbelt for two weeks and I'm still alive, therefore, everyone should stop wearing seatbelts".

Nope. It means that people need to stop freaking out about every change in the daily numbers and look at the bigger picture which is that the virus's peak has long since passed and is rapidly - and thankfully - dying out.

Alongside that is the strain that this blanket coverage and negativity is obviously having on some people's mental health. Turn off the news and social media coverage and start living your lives again. No-one has said you shouldn't take sensible precautions (and if you read my previous posts in these threads I've been saying it a long time too), but the time for hiding away from this thing in fear is (again thankfully) long past.

It is VITALLY important that people start getting back to living - not just for their jobs or the economy, but for their own wellbeing too.

average_runner

FishOnABike wrote: »

How many children died putting their trousers on last year and how many have died so far this year from CoViD?

Its not about how many died, its about the rate of spreading the infection, alot of people seem to miss this point.

average_runner

brighterspark wrote: »

How many children will be still able to fit into those trousers? Obsetity is the real health threat to our children. What studies have shown covid being spread by kids kicking a ball? All outdoor sports should be free of ridiculous restrictions that make them impossible to play (eg not sharing a ball) Sports organisations in this country seem to be very reluctant or fearful to point out how ridiculous and impractical conditions/restrictions that have been imposed are for fear they will be not allowed to get back to sport!

There is nothing stopping kids from kicking a ball to each other over the last few weeks. Nothing stopping a parent from getting out on the road or bringing the kids to the park to play football.


Or are these the parents that are complaining, that just drop the kids off at sport and head off then?

average_runner

robfowler78 wrote: »

It's no surprise if we lock the world away for months then what do people expect to happen when people can go out again. At some stage we have to face up to the virus and start to live abit more.

We will and we are. We will do it in a responsible way so that we can start opening all the hospitals etc again and that they won't be under pressure from the virus

FishOnABike

average_runner wrote: »

Its not about how many died, its about the rate of spreading the infection, alot of people seem to miss this point.

Agreed, measles has severe complications like acute encephalitis in only about 1 in 1000 cases, deaths would be even rarer but we vaccinate against it to stop it spreading. Flu is far less infectious and far less serious than CoViD-19 but we recommend vaccination for specific risk groups to stop it spreading. At the moment restrictions and improved hygiene measures are the only tools we have to reduce the spread of CoViD-19.

I'd still like Jayesdiem to give the numbers for children dying putting on their trousers vs dying of CoViD as I suspect their comment has as much basis in reality as some other viewpoints expressed in this thread.

Ginger n Lemon

average_runner wrote: »

Its not about how many died, its about the rate of spreading the infection, alot of people seem to miss this point.

You are right there. 0 people died out of 1,100 infected in meat plants in this country.

7 admitted to ICU out of 1,100 over a period of 3 months.

Widdensushi

FishOnABike wrote: »

How many children died putting their trousers on last year and how many have died so far this year from CoViD?

If they had tested positive for covid but tripped over and got killed while putting on their trousers what would go down as cause of death?

Ginger n Lemon

Widdensushi wrote: »

If they had tested positive for covid but tripped over and got killed while putting on their trousers what would go down as cause of death?

You know it.

:rolleyes:

Sure we have people with cancer dying and having covid as cause of death on their death certificate... there is a reason RTE has never reported a single underlying condition and what it actually is/was. the "died with underlying conditions having contracted covid" classic

Flickerfusion

I see Spain is reopening but the media reports are somewhat confusing as they’re saying that it’s reopening to the “all of the EU” and in the same breath that “that non-Schengen countries” will still be subject to restrictions even after July.

Doesn’t sound like Spanish holidays will be happening anytime soon for Ireland then if we’re being thrown in with the U.K. as you’ll have uk residents travelling on Irish passports in quite significant numbers.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/coronavirus/short_news/spain-update-covid-19/

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Nope. It means that people need to stop freaking out about every change in the daily numbers and look at the bigger picture which is that the virus's peak has long since passed and is rapidly - and thankfully - dying out.

Alongside that is the strain that this blanket coverage and negativity is obviously having on some people's mental health. Turn off the news and social media coverage and start living your lives again. No-one has said you shouldn't take sensible precautions (and if you read my previous posts in these threads I've been saying it a long time too), but the time for hiding away from this thing in fear is (again thankfully) long past.

It is VITALLY important that people start getting back to living - not just for their jobs or the economy, but for their own wellbeing too.

Again, I'm not trying to argue against your overall point. The line saying "I've been doing X for Y number of weeks, and I'm fine so that means everyone should follow suit" is what I take issue with.

It's the equivalent of a lotto winner telling everyone to spend their savings on lotto tickets, or Taylor Swift saying "if you just believe in yourself, and work hard, you'll achieve your dreams". Just because it worked for someone, doesn't mean it will work for someone else.

I mean, if someone came on and said "my father never followed protocol and ignored the lockdown procedures from the start and he's dead now" you, and others, would be telling everyone to ignore them because it's not representative of reality.

FishOnABike

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You are right there. 0 people died out of 1,100 infected in meat plants in this country.

7 admitted to ICU out of 1,100 over a period of 3 months.

[sarcasm] Sure if we just preemptively killed off all the over 65s, imunosurpressed, those with any number of underlying medical conditions, asthma, etc... hardly anybody would die from CoViD-19. [/sarcasm]

The at risk cohort are very much part of the community and everywhere in the community. To reduce the risk to them we need to reduce the prevalence and spread of CoViD-19 in the community. It's not just about 'healthy' low risk workers, it's also about their direct and indirect contacts.

Being 'low risk' is no guarantee either, seemingly healthy people with no underlying medical conditions have suffered significant permanent health damage or died. At a population level it may be a very low risk but at an individual level it's a yes or a no.

Ginger n Lemon

Deleted User wrote: »

Again, I'm not trying to argue against your overall point. The line saying "I've been doing X for Y number of weeks, and I'm fine so that means everyone should follow suit" is what I take issue with.

It's the equivalent of a lotto winner telling everyone to spend their savings on lotto tickets, or Taylor Swift saying "if you just believe in yourself, and work hard, you'll achieve your dreams". Just because it worked for someone, doesn't mean it will work for someone else.

I mean, if someone came on and said "my father never followed protocol and ignored the lockdown procedures from the start and he's dead now" you, and others, would be telling everyone to ignore them because it's not representative of reality.

That in bold. What OP is trying to say is that if you dont have underlying conditions, if you are not over 65 years old and if you dont interact with the these groups on daily basis, you should definitely start living life much more and stop fearing everything.

facehugger99

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You know it.

:rolleyes:

Sure we have people with cancer dying and having covid as cause of death on their death certificate... there is a reason RTE has never reported a single underlying condition and what it actually is/was. the "died with underlying conditions having contracted covid" classic

It will take a few years for the absolute con-job that has been pulled regarding the fatality stats, to become apparent.

I noticed that RTE quickly stopped reporting on the median age of fatalities.

A median age of fatalities that's higher than life-expectancy had people starting to question 'project-fear'.

Ginger n Lemon

FishOnABike wrote: »

[sarcasm] Sure if we just preemptively killed off all the over 65s, imunosurpressed, those with any number of underlying medical conditions, asthma, etc... hardly anybody would die from CoViD-19. [/sarcasm]

The at risk cohort are very much part of the community and everywhere in the community. To reduce the risk to them we need to reduce the prevalence and spread of CoViD-19 in the community. It's not just about 'healthy' low risk workers, it's also about their direct and indirect contacts.

Being 'low risk' is no guarantee either, seemingly healthy people with no underlying medical conditions have suffered significant permanent health damage or died. At a population level it may be a very low risk but at an individual level it's a yes or a no.

I think you are confused, its not "hardly anybody would die from covid" its NOBODY IN MEAT PLANTS DIED OFF COVID, OUT OF 1,100 bloody infections.

NO SUPERMARKET STAFF HAS DIED OFF COVID and they been at it for the last 3 months, 7 days a week.

In fact out of 23,000 + staff working in Aldi, Lidl, Tesco over the last 3 months less than 80 infections were reported. What an infectious disease indeed.....

Ginger n Lemon

facehugger99 wrote: »

It will take a few years for the absolute con-job that has been pulled regarding the fatality stats, to become apparent.

I noticed that RTE quickly stopped reporting on the median age of fatalities.

A median age of fatalities that's higher than life-expectancy had people starting to question 'project-fear'.

Unfortunately averaged scared person is too scared to realise whats actually taking place.

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

While your overall point may be valid, the above line is absolute nonsense. "I've been driving around without a seatbelt for two weeks and I'm still alive, therefore, everyone should stop wearing seatbelts".

It's a false equivalence. We have lots of data on seatbelts and know the risks, we can't say with any full certainty what risks exist with COVID-19 but our current data suggests that risk is declining daily.

is_that_so

facehugger99 wrote: »

It will take a few years for the absolute con-job that has been pulled regarding the fatality stats, to become apparent.

I noticed that RTE quickly stopped reporting on the median age of fatalities.

A median age of fatalities that's higher than life-expectancy had people starting to question 'project-fear'.

Based on what?

robfowler78

average_runner wrote: »

We will and we are. We will do it in a responsible way so that we can start opening all the hospitals etc again and that they won't be under pressure from the virus

And that is probably the right way but I'm amazed at the way people think we can open up without any Spike in cases when the virus isn't gone. At that rate we will have no chance of ever opening up. I for one can't see to many people standing outside shops in cues in the middle of winter with small children who can't be in school full time. It's madness

is_that_so

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You know it.

:rolleyes:

Sure we have people with cancer dying and having covid as cause of death on their death certificate... there is a reason RTE has never reported a single underlying condition and what it actually is/was. the "died with underlying conditions having contracted covid" classic

It's how they do causes of death. Cancer might well have killed them in 3 months but COVID was the overt cause. Oh and heart disease is the big underlying condition, not cancer.

FishOnABike

Widdensushi wrote: »

If they had tested positive for covid but tripped over and got killed while putting on their trousers what would go down as cause of death?

Is it likely to be statistically significant? :rolleyes:

Penfailed

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You are right there. 0 people died out of 1,100 infected in meat plants in this country.

7 admitted to ICU out of 1,100 over a period of 3 months.

Except one did die in a meat plant in Co. Tyrone.

kwestfan08

Penfailed wrote: »

Except one did die in a meat plant in Co. Tyrone.

Wouldn't they belong to the UK's figures then?

mloc123

Penfailed wrote: »

Except one did die in a meat plant in Co. Tyrone.

Tyrone is not in this country..

stephenjmcd

Flickerfusion wrote: »

I see Spain is reopening but the media reports are somewhat confusing as they’re saying that it’s reopening to the “all of the EU” and in the same breath that “that non-Schengen countries” will still be subject to restrictions even after July.

Doesn’t sound like Spanish holidays will be happening anytime soon for Ireland then if we’re being thrown in with the U.K. as you’ll have uk residents travelling on Irish passports in quite significant numbers.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/coronavirus/short_news/spain-update-covid-19/

"From June 21st - when the countyry’s state of emergency ends - it will allow the entry of visitors from the European Union and the open-border Schengen area, which also includes non-EU countries such as Switzerland and Norway, Spanish Foreign Minister Arancha Gonzalez Laya tweeted.

Visitors from outside the EU or Schengen area will be able to visit Spain from July 1st, though that will hinge on their country’s public health situation, Laya said.

British visitors would be able to travel to Spain from June 21st since Britain is still considered part of the EU, a Spanish foreign ministry source said."

FishOnABike

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I think you are confused, its not "hardly anybody would die from covid" its NOBODY IN MEAT PLANTS DIED OFF COVID, OUT OF 1,100 bloody infections.

NO SUPERMARKET STAFF HAS DIED OFF COVID and they been at it for the last 3 months, 7 days a week.

In fact out of 23,000 + staff working in Aldi, Lidl, Tesco over the last 3 months less than 80 infections were reported. What an infectious disease indeed.....

Not confused at all. Even if none of the approx. 1100 meat plant workers diagnosed with CoViD-19 died, and that seems questionable based on Penfaild's post

Penfailed wrote: »

Except one did die in a meat plant in Co. Tyrone.

the risk to the wider community of an uncontained cluster is more significant from a public health, and indeed economic, point of view.

I wouldn't read too much into the fact that only a small number of supermarket workers, who have relatively brief interaction with a customer, practicing physical distancing and behind a perspex screen, have contracted CoViD-19. If anything it could be used to argue for the efficacy of protective measures.

Latest news - infectious disease less infectious when anti infection measures taken.

average_runner

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You are right there. 0 people died out of 1,100 infected in meat plants in this country.

7 admitted to ICU out of 1,100 over a period of 3 months.

True, but did anyone outside the meat industry pick the virus up?
I think we have it under control now and now we all need to do the basics and fingers cross