How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

But how vocal will people be given they don't actually want a change?

66% in the south want a poll

44% in the north want one with 39% against it.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

66% in the south want a poll

44% in the north want one with 39% against it.

But the majority are against unification so can't see them demanding a poll.

droidman123

downcow wrote: »

No.
U.K. has committed £billions annually. It would be Roi tax payers turn and of course ourselves

They paid billions because they made their own bed and had to lie in it,you seriously believe in the event of a ui that the britain just walks away with no reparation costs?

FrancieBrady

Knuckles Kennedy wrote: »

Interestingly support for a united Ireland in the North has only risen 5% since a similar survey carried out six years ago for RTE/BBCNI for a joint programme they did.
This rather suggests the Brexit bounce in support of UI is not as great as has been suggested.
In fact the general consensus remains pretty much the same - people have aspirations for a UI in the long-term but they don't want to pay for it.
And even nationalists and republicans are not overwhelmingly in favour of UI.

??? Brexit only happened in January this year.

mehico

downcow wrote: »

I am borderline thinking we should have a border poll to put this to bed for a while but I will 100% vote against a UI. So numbers wanting a border poll are completely irrelevant. They have no bearing on either the reason sos having a poll or the result.
Just interesting that you cling unto an irrelevance. Mustn’t be much in it for you

Can't see a border poll being held in the immediate term but perhaps there could be one by the end of this decade.

I read a while ago an article from Unionist commentator sharing your view that a border poll should be held sooner. He made the argument that an Irish border poll should be held before the next Scottish referendum and if the border poll failed it would put the argument to bed for a while. However, he made the point that if Scotland achieved independence before an Irish border poll takes place, the case for the Union would obviously be irreversibly weakened and this would have consequences for a subsequent border poll.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

Another interesting take on the poll.
Seems some here who have been slaying me need to pull their horns in
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/the-centenary/centenary-poll-suggests-only-29-of-people-in-northern-ireland-consider-irish-language-to-be-important-40375679.html

29% of people in the North think the Irish Language is important.....that's a significant number of people who think it is important, Downcow.

For context, that's the same number who think flags are important and you lads can't get enough of lobbing them up all over the place! I wonder what percentage think Orange marches are important? Pipe and drum bands?

Anyone else note the BelTel bias creeping into the phrasing though? Both of the above have 29% think they're important. For the Irish Language, they presented it as that, for the flags issue, they presented it as, '47% think it is unimportant...

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

29% of people in the North think the Irish Language is important.....that's a significant number of people who think it is important, Downcow.

For context, that's the same number who think flags are important and you lads can't get enough of lobbing them up all over the place!

Anyone else note the BelTel bias creeping into the phrasing though? Both of the above have 29% think they're important. For the Irish Language, they presented it as that, for the flags issue, they presented it as, '47% think it is unimportant...

Absolutely noticed the usual phrasing.

Also noticed that in the full figures on the language aren't presented or did I miss them?

Fionn1952

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Absolutely noticed the usual phrasing.

Also noticed that in the full figures on the language aren't presented or did I miss them?

Irish Language - 29% important, 24% not sure, 47% unimportant

Flags - 29% important, 24% not sure, 47% unimportant.


An amusing coincidence that the numbers are identical.

maestroamado

Its creeping up the political agenda at an alarming rate and its clear that there is a political will for it to happen alot sooner than i thought it might happen. Every day there is articles about it
All that needs to happen is to sell the idea to the people who will be most effected by it if it is to happen.
I read this morning that we would likely have to change to British style health system.
Arlene made the right move as i think she was blamed in the wrong as it was Boris and EU who agreed the border in Irish sea.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Irish Language - 29% important, 24% not sure, 47% unimportant

Flags - 29% important, 24% not sure, 47% unimportant.


An amusing coincidence that the numbers are identical.

Completely supports my consistent argument that Irish language signage and loyalist flags on lampposts are similar in their reason and in people’s perception of them.
I actually thought Irish language would have been higher as not everyone into Irish will see signage as important so we are looking at a much lower figure

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Completely supports my consistent argument that Irish language signage and loyalist flags on lampposts are similar in their reason and in people’s perception of them.
I actually thought Irish language would have been higher as not everyone into Irish will see signage as important so we are looking at a much lower figure

You people!

You brought violence onto the streets over flying the flag on City Hall...not lamp posts.

Gas man.

Natterjack from Kerry

FrancieBrady wrote: »

66% in the south want a poll

44% in the north want one with 39% against it.

Shows there is still quite a reconquer mentality in the south. Which in itself justifies much of the northern reticence.

What would such a new states name be ? In the case of a two state federation, a sensible possibility in itself, would Federal Republic of Ireland provide sufficient distance from Ireland or would it need something more radical ?

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

Completely supports my consistent argument that Irish language signage and loyalist flags on lampposts are similar in their reason and in people’s perception of them.
I actually thought Irish language would have been higher as not everyone into Irish will see signage as important so we are looking at a much lower figure

Stretching, stretching verrrrrrry hard Downcow.

jh79

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/centenaries/centenarypoll/poll-two-thirds-say-united-ireland-vote-risks-return-to-violence-40378476.html

Majority believe a majority of 2/3 needed for a border poll to be accepted by both sides.

Behind a paywall so don't know the details but a claim in there that doubling of the USC or an increase from 20 to 28 % of the basic tax rate would be needed!

downcow

jh79 wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/centenaries/centenarypoll/poll-two-thirds-say-united-ireland-vote-risks-return-to-violence-40378476.html

Majority believe a majority of 2/3 needed for a border poll to be accepted by both sides.

Behind a paywall so don't know the details but a claim in there that doubling of the USC or an increase from 20 to 28 % of the basic tax rate would be needed!

Huge thanks for that.

“””Asked what size majority would be sufficient to for a Border poll result to be accepted by both sides of the community, people in the Republic (81pc) and the North (74pc) believe either a two-thirds or 70pc majority would be needed.
The landmark online poll of 2,250 people north and south was taken to coincide with the centenary of the creation of Northern Ireland this weekend. The margin of error is between 2.5/3.6pc.”””

This should be the new campaign for unionists - with evidence that the majority of both north and south agree with us.

ITS A GIFT. Feels like Christmas

Natterjack from Kerry

Fionn1952 wrote: »

For context, that's the same number who think flags are important and you lads can't get enough of lobbing them up all over the place!

To be fair, republicans put up lots of Republic of Ireland flags too, though to their credit, they also show their endorsement and support for Orangism with their flag.

Fionn1952

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

To be fair, republicans put up lots of Republic of Ireland flags too, though to their credit, they also show their endorsement and support for Orangism with their flag.

I don't really give a toss what side is doing it; the whole sticking flags on lampposts thing is scummy as hell. It is more akin to dogs p*ssing on them to mark, 'their territory' than any sort of patriotism.

That being said, it was always a dead handy way of identifying places you don't want to live.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I don't really give a toss what side is doing it; the whole sticking flags on lampposts thing is scummy as hell. It is more akin to dogs p*ssing on them to mark, 'their territory' than any sort of patriotism.

That being said, it was always a dead handy way of identifying places you don't want to live.

Irish language roadsigns are become the new ‘classy’ way to know which community rules the roost in any area

downcow

The bad news for republicans just keeps on coming. They have missed the boat. Unionists can relax for several generations.
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/centenary-poll-irish-unity-would-jeopardise-peace-in-northern-ireland-survey-confirms-hardening-of-views-in-unionist-community-40377774.html

Hamsterchops

downcow wrote: »

Irish language roadsigns are become the new ‘classy’ way to know which community rules the roost in any area

Are these official roadsigns as erected by councils, or ......

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Irish language roadsigns are become the new ‘classy’ way to know which community rules the roost in any area

Classier than painting kerbs in my humble opinion.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

The bad news for republicans just keeps on coming. They have missed the boat. Unionists can relax for several generations.
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/centenary-poll-irish-unity-would-jeopardise-peace-in-northern-ireland-survey-confirms-hardening-of-views-in-unionist-community-40377774.html

Belfast Tel threatening violence again...terrible.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Classier than painting kerbs in my humble opinion.

Yes we are in agreement. Classier looking, but same old message

downcow

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Are these official roadsigns as erected by councils, or ......

A mixture - just like flags. But same message received from the ‘other’ side

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Yes we are in agreement. Classier looking, but same old message

That the native language is important? Yes, a good cultural message that nobody should be so insecure about.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That the native language is important? Yes, a good cultural message that nobody should be so insecure about.

Same with the official flag
Ditto
We are on the same page now

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Are these official roadsigns as erected by councils, or ......

Absolutely. Imagine, this threatens the very fabric of Unionism.

Hamsterchops

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That the native language is important? Yes, a good cultural message that nobody should be so insecure about.

Sadly "the native language" is just being weaponised as a tool against the other side!

Sad.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Same with the official flag
Ditto
We are on the same page now

No, we aren't downcow, I agree the flag can be flown on it's designated days, but YOU object to bi-lingual signs still.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Sadly "the native language" is just being weaponised as a tool against the other side!

Sad.

See the sign I posted...weaponised? How does seeing the Irish language hurt anyone?