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fundamentalists using covid to ram through measures

13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,640 ✭✭✭✭OldGoat


    Amirani wrote: »
    Imagine how much easier it would be for said commercial vehicles if they didn't have to sit in traffic behind private cars?
    I'm not disagreeing with ya but it should be remembered that a lot of drivers have no other choice but to try and navigate the ever declining number of roads. No matter what road closures are made the commercial traffic will still need access.

    I'm older than Minecraft goats.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭Truthvader


    So there is a lot of traffic in the City. Is this meant to be "news"?

    Do you think people are deciding "must go into town and waste my day sitting in traffic?" I expect, allowing for masochists, those people in the cars are making the best choice available to them. The City environment is already deliberately hostile to cars. Roads are closed off, pedestrianised, blocked, taken over by Luas or bus lands while parking is relentlessly policed. No-one exposes themselves to this by choice.

    I expect the Greens/cyclist/ Gretta Thunberg lobby will eventually prevail as they have done over the last 30 years and Dublin will be transformed into some kind of pre-industrial theme park. Maybe that's a good thing? Loads of people think it is. As I was 30 before I got a car I suffered the hostility, unreliability and degradation "public transport" long enough (and cycled to school as a kid.) So over all that and will simply go elsewhere - as so many already do.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,035 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Truthvader wrote: »
    So over all that and will simply go elsewhere - as so many already do.

    Close the door after you on your way out.


    The idea that cities such as Amsterdam or Copenhagen are "pre industrial theme parks" is particularly hilarious. Copenhagen is especially relevant as they did their major moves well before their metro was built.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68 ✭✭major interest


    Truthvader wrote: »
    So there is a lot of traffic in the City. Is this meant to be "news"?

    Do you think people are deciding "must go into town and waste my day sitting in traffic?" I expect, allowing for masochists, those people in the cars are making the best choice available to them. The City environment is already deliberately hostile to cars. Roads are closed off, pedestrianised, blocked, taken over by Luas or bus lands while parking is relentlessly policed. No-one exposes themselves to this by choice.

    I expect the Greens/cyclist/ Gretta Thunberg lobby will eventually prevail as they have done over the last 30 years and Dublin will be transformed into some kind of pre-industrial theme park. Maybe that's a good thing? Loads of people think it is. As I was 30 before I got a car I suffered the hostility, unreliability and degradation "public transport" long enough (and cycled to school as a kid.) So over all that and will simply go elsewhere - as so many already do.

    There will always be some cars transitting through cities. However, there is no need for private cars to be going down city centre streets such as South William street which is narrow and has such high footfall. Transitting through a city can be done on larger arterial routes - there is no need for these to go right through the core.

    European capitals tend to have a city centre core of pedestrianised streets and plazas. It lends itself to better shopping/dining/tourism experience. If people must drive and park in the city then it still is possible, it just means a slightly longer walk to get to these core areas/streets.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Truthvader wrote: »
    So there is a lot of traffic in the City. Is this meant to be "news"?

    Do you think people are deciding "must go into town and waste my day sitting in traffic?" I expect, allowing for masochists, those people in the cars are making the best choice available to them. The City environment is already deliberately hostile to cars. Roads are closed off, pedestrianised, blocked, taken over by Luas or bus lands while parking is relentlessly policed. No-one exposes themselves to this by choice.

    I expect the Greens/cyclist/ Gretta Thunberg lobby will eventually prevail as they have done over the last 30 years and Dublin will be transformed into some kind of pre-industrial theme park. Maybe that's a good thing? Loads of people think it is. As I was 30 before I got a car I suffered the hostility, unreliability and degradation "public transport" long enough (and cycled to school as a kid.) So over all that and will simply go elsewhere - as so many already do.

    You think the trend is in any way unique to Ireland? Most of Europe is already way ahead of us in that regard. There is not a single city on earth trending toward prioritising private cars, because the world has universally realised it is inefficient nonsense

    I really take issue with how you say roads are 'hostile' to cars, they aren't, they are simply prioritising far more efficient forms of transport such as cycling bus and tram instead. Why are you advocating for the city to prioritise less efficient transport ?

    Dublin is not like Paris and Barcelona and New York , it has narrow roads, we have to make the best of that and there is just no room for cars if we want a working and efficient city


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,057 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Truthvader wrote: »
    I expect the Greens/cyclist/ Gretta Thunberg lobby will eventually prevail as they have done over the last 30 years and Dublin will be transformed into some kind of pre-industrial theme park. Maybe that's a good thing? Loads of people think it is. As I was 30 before I got a car I suffered the hostility, unreliability and degradation "public transport" long enough (and cycled to school as a kid.) So over all that and will simply go elsewhere - as so many already do.

    Did you cycle to drama lessons also?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭Truthvader


    In reply to all. The three cities cited , Amsterdam, New York, and Copenhagen all have functioning Underground systems. ie an alternative to cars that actually works

    The policy in Dublin has been driven, not by a wish to provide any alternative but by only by a wish to punish car owners without providing an alternative. Mercifully I have not been on a bus for about 20 years except once. On that occasion I was reminded of the horror of my childhood by the 40 minute wait and the hostility of the driver who refused to give me change. Apparently have to have the exact money now. Have used Luas and Dart occasionally which are good services and if I lived beside a Dart Station and was travelling to a Dart Station I would use it all the time. Often I want to go somewhere an hours walk from a Luas/ Dart so I will take the car. The solution is and always was an Underground but it has been resisted by the bicycle lobby because it does not punish car owners.

    Every Winter I have nothing but pity in my heart for those huddled in the rain at bus stops waiting on the off chance that the filthy bus will lumber into view or those forced to cycle (as opposed to the looney cycle nuts with stupid clothes and camera on their helmet) through the rain in their 40's 50's and older.

    Anyway lots of support here for a continuation of the policy. Have driven all my life and old enough now that covid 19 might see me off wont have to face the consequences of the policies so enthusiastically supported here. Can't help thinking that I had a good run listening to the radio in warm comfort on the way to work. Hope it works out for you all


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,130 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Truthvader wrote:
    The solution is and always was an Underground but it has been resisted by the bicycle lobby because it does not punish car owners.

    Hahahahahaha.

    I don't know a single bicycle lobbyist who isn't pro public transport. The motoring lobbyists on the other hand...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,324 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Truthvader wrote: »
    resisted by the bicycle lobby because it does not punish car owners.

    Lol, they aren't mutually exclusive. Go to any cycling/multisport event and you'll see lots of nice machinery carting bikes around.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,013 ✭✭✭Polar101


    Truthvader wrote: »
    Every Winter I have nothing but pity in my heart for those huddled in the rain at bus stops waiting on the off chance that the filthy bus will lumber into view

    I could be wrong, but you don't strike me as a reliable expert when it comes to public transport planning..
    Truthvader wrote: »
    or those forced to cycle

    ..or an unbiased expert on cycling.

    ---

    If you have better public transport, more options for cyclists and pedestrians, in general it will mean less car traffic - which makes things better for motorists as well.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,035 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Truthvader wrote: »
    In reply to all. The three cities cited , Amsterdam, New York, and Copenhagen all have functioning Underground systems. ie an alternative to cars that actually works

    As was already pointed out, Copenhagen made the move to a bike/pedestrian city centre in the 70s and their Metro system only opened in 2002.

    Amsterdam's tram network had withered to ONE line and their Metro system was still in design when they started making major moves in that direction.

    In both cases, buses provided the core public transport at the time, just as they do here. We're realistically a step ahead of both were at that time as we have trams and a cross-city heavy rail system.
    Truthvader wrote: »
    The solution is and always was an Underground but it has been resisted by the bicycle lobby because it does not punish car owners.

    If you could show a shred of evidence to suggest this isn't anything other than a paranoid delusion of yours, that'd be nice.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,763 ✭✭✭Sheeps


    It's a disgrace that Dublin City Council are moving to pedestrianisation and cycling. What are we all supposed to do with the extra hours of the day we will have not stuck in traffic when we resume normality?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭0lddog


    Not great picking Denmark and Netherlands as examples. Ireland is in a different league to them when it comes to economic growth.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,951 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    subpar wrote: »
    What city centre retail and traders need post lockdown is free parking till year end to bring customers back and save their businesses and jobs. This is not the time to be making it more diificult for people to get into the city. Dublin is a sprawling city stretching from Skerries in the North to Bray in the South and Naas in the West. People need a car to access the city centre . Making it harder from them to do so will only force them to use the M50 Retail Parks and lead to an empty and dead city for retailers.

    71% of trips to central Dublin were made by sustainable mode in 2019, so your premise is incorrect.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,951 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    I doubt that hundreds of people spontaneously suddenly decided while the city was in lockdown and a killer plague roaming the streets to suddenly decide they all wanted a plaza

    you realise this saga predates the virus?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,951 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Big Gerry wrote: »
    The green head the balls are clueless when it comes to economics or how the real world works.

    Actually I find the opposite. All the Facebook Karens who bemoan road space been allocated to sustainable modes are generally ignorant of economics and indeed all forms of academia.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,951 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Truthvader wrote: »
    Or they can drive to Dundrum and park their car ready to load their shopping when they are finished instead of waiting in the rain for a filthy bus with a hostile driver who wont give you change or a trip in A Luas filled with junkies and feral youth or the long cycle home with you new ironing Board.

    Problem with driving to Dundrum is, it's a suburban shopping centre (soulless kip).

    If you're still looking to get change of a bus driver in a developed country in 2020, there's no helping you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,951 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    I think my original issue was more with the manner in which they are attempting to push this through as part of Covid response - its totally disingenuous and smacks of the fundamentalists trying to subvert normal protocols

    normal protocols have produced nothing worth mentioning in decades.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭Mullaghteelin


    Out of town retail parks have sprung up because of car culture.
    They are the result of taking car dependency to the very extreme,
    These places are there specifically to cater for motorists.
    The city centre, on the other hand, was not built for cars.
    When you look at old photos of the city with familiar buildings and streets but no cars, it really hits home.
    Its only then you appreciate how recent traffic gridlock, noise and fumes are.
    All these things belong on motorways, but not in the heart of a nations capital.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68 ✭✭major interest


    https://www.dlrcoco.ie/en/news/general-news-public-notices-press-releases/dlr-create-safe-and-dynamic-public-space-pedestrians

    Main St in Blackrock village being converted to one way and more space being given to pedestrians and cyclists. Dun Laoghaire Rathdown county council looking to roll out similar measures in other areas it seems.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    Can't wait for the pedestrianisation of College Green, what Dublin needs badly is more pedestrianised areas like this to match the lovely boardwalk. The tourists will love the sight of junkies sitting around our latest braindead idea.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,057 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Big Gerry wrote: »
    The green head the balls are clueless when it comes to economics or how the real world works.

    Economics like this, Gerry?

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2018/11/16/cyclists-spend-40-more-in-londons-shops-than-motorists/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,951 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Out of town retail parks have sprung up because of car culture.
    They are the result of taking car dependency to the very extreme,
    These places are there specifically to cater for motorists.
    The city centre, on the other hand, was not built for cars.
    When you look at old photos of the city with familiar buildings and streets but no cars, it really hits home.
    Its only then you appreciate how recent traffic gridlock, noise and fumes are.
    All these things belong on motorways, but not in the heart of a nations capital.

    This is not really understood here by the facebook Karens who think their 'road tax' entitles them to things.

    The UK embraced Americanisation and the Marshel plan post world war 2 and destroyed their city centres with motorway/dual carriageway building worse than the luftwaffe did. It can even be seen in Belfast where they plowed the 'Westlink' through the City Centre and severed the City from it's inner suburbs. The result now is that most British Cities are dead after sunset and the air quality is horrific. Most evenings in British Cities (even Birmingham, the second largest) you can walk around and not see a soul. Obviously London is an exception and in recent years Belfast has developed a Centre worth mentioning but obviously there were other problems there.

    Similar, but less extreme, set ups exist in West German Cities, and in France. Although I see in Paris they've at least reclaimed the banks of the sein.

    We're very lucky here that the government here didn't have the cash to go lashing motorways through cities in the post war era.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,951 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Can't wait for the pedestrianisation of College Green, what Dublin needs badly is more pedestrianised areas like this to match the lovely boardwalk. The tourists will love the sight of junkies sitting around our latest braindead idea.

    I'd much rather have to cope with the sight of an unfortunate person than have to suck the fumes out of exhaust pipes to be fair.

    Is your contention that all space that isn't handed over to vehicles will immediately be consumed by junkies?

    Maybe a mature discussion about our policy on drugs would be a better solution to 'junkies on the pavement' than displacing them with cars?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    cgcsb wrote: »
    I'd much rather have to cope with the sight of an unfortunate person than have to suck the fumes out of exhaust pipes to be fair.

    Is your contention that all space that isn't handed over to vehicles will immediately be consumed by junkies?

    Maybe a mature discussion about our policy on drugs would be a better solution to 'junkies on the pavement' than displacing them with cars?

    Honestly, as somebody who frequents this part of town by bike/bus/walking, there is already enough junkies hanging around to know what will happen.

    People think they are creating Piazza Venezia here, the reality will be the opposite. Would you go for a walk with your kids along the boardwalk?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,035 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    There are ways to tackle that issue which are usually blocked by the same NIMBYs as try block pedestrianisation. Allowing a problem that virtually no other city has and is entirely down to awful service provision and management to block other things should not happen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭Boulevardier


    I think that Covid is being used by Dublin Corporation to force through measures that are similar to those rejected by An Bord Pleanala last year.

    The main losers will be bus commuters like me, who will have to use less convenient routes to, and stops in, the city centre.

    As the OP correctly implies, the big gainers will be the vocal and extremely well-organised cycling lobby, who are gettting everything they want and more.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,130 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    As the OP correctly implies, the big gainers will be the vocal and extremely well-organised cycling lobby, who are gettting everything they want and more.

    Sure they are. Why it's like Amsterdam/Copenhagen out there :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,057 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko



    As the OP correctly implies, the big gainers will be the vocal and extremely well-organised cycling lobby, who are gettting everything they want and more.
    #BigCycling wins again - it's all those expensive PR consultants and professional lobbyists that they use that make all the difference.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,232 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    I think that Covid is being used by Dublin Corporation to force through measures that are similar to those rejected by An Bord Pleanala last year.

    The main losers will be bus commuters like me, who will have to use less convenient routes to, and stops in, the city centre.

    As the OP correctly implies, the big gainers will be the vocal and extremely well-organised cycling lobby, who are gettting everything they want and more.

    Public transport won't be negatively affected by improved cycling infrastructure.


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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 41,985 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle
    Brundlefly


    As the OP correctly implies, the big gainers will be the vocal and extremely well-organised cycling lobby, who are gettting everything they want and more.
    You're just being melodramatic!
    There is no "extremely well-organised cycling lobby". There are a few small groups with almost no influence, sadly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,057 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    You're just being melodramatic!
    There is no "extremely well-organised cycling lobby". There are a few small groups with almost no influence, sadly.

    Certainly, they have close to zero resources. Last time I looked, Cyclist.ie had one half-time person iirc working on these issues. The rest of the 'extremely well organised cycling lobby' was entirely down to volunteers.

    If it is ''extremely well organised" that should be held up as an example to others.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭Boulevardier


    I have seen what the cycling activists are able to do, such as standing with their bikes the whole way down Rathmines Road as an (understandable) protest against motorists using their space.

    My point is that public transport users have never been able to do anything analogous to that. Try calling a meeting for public transport users and see how many turn up. I've done this and it is very frustrating.

    That is of course partly the fault of us transport users ourselves, but the net effect is that cyclists as a group are taken seriously while bus commuters are not listened to.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 41,985 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle
    Brundlefly


    I have seen what the cycling activists are able to do, such as standing with their bikes the whole way down Rathmines Road as an (understandable) protest against motorists using their space.
    You initially referred to the cycling lobby which would indicate an organized approach.
    Now you are referring to a small number of people who met after seeing a few tweets because they’re pissed off with the authorities allowing our crap selection of cycle lanes to become parking spots.
    They’re not activists.
    They are just commuters.
    My point is that public transport users have never been able to do anything analogous to that. Try calling a meeting for public transport users and see how many turn up. I've done this and it is very frustrating.

    That is of course partly the fault of us transport users ourselves, but the net effect is that cyclists as a group are taken seriously while bus commuters are not listened to.
    What’s stopping you from putting out a tweet asking people to meet you so you can stop cars using the bus lanes? There’s plenty of places where you can find breaches occurring.

    However, you claim that as a group cyclists are taken seriously. They’re not!
    As an example, a meeting with Cork City Council CEO Ann Doherty on improving safety for cyclists in Cork City began with Doherty reading out an email from a resident giving out about cyclists on footpaths.
    Cycling infrastructure is brutal with most infrastructure being token efforts that involve a little bit of paint which has limited safety qualities. Infrastructure for cyclists is far too often designed and built without any involvement from people who actually cycle. Most infrastructure therefore reflects this ignorance and is therefore reluctantly used, if it is even used.
    Driver education and law enforcement are wish washy and poorly thought through. Garda enforcement (like so many traffic laws) are poor. I’ve reported a lot of drivers this year with video evidence but I’ve wasted my time (and it does take a fair bit of time between going there! Waiting and then having to narrate a stupid statement of how I felt scared because a car sped past a foot away from me.
    Anyhow, I’m going on and on. My point was though was that people who cycle are not generally listened to by society.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭Boulevardier


    I never said the cycling lobby was run by PR consultants. A lobby can consist of activists. I think the cycling lobby are certainly listened to by the powers that be in Dublin, especially by people like Owen Keegan.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 41,985 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle
    Brundlefly


    ...and my point was that until recently theres almost no evidence that anything was being done by the councils to make cycling safer (either commuting or leisure cycling).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,951 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    I never said the cycling lobby was run by PR consultants. A lobby can consist of activists. I think the cycling lobby are certainly listened to by the powers that be in Dublin, especially by people like Owen Keegan.

    I don't know how you can think that? there has only been about 4 or 5 km of useable cylce lane built in Dublin in the past decade. Most would agree it's one of the worst EU capitals for cycling.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,553 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Honestly, as somebody who frequents this part of town by bike/bus/walking, there is already enough junkies hanging around to know what will happen.

    People think they are creating Piazza Venezia here, the reality will be the opposite. Would you go for a walk with your kids along the boardwalk?

    I'm not sure how much time you've spent in Rome, but there are far more homeless and people with addition issues around the streets than Dublin. But that doesn't suit your narrative of course.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 41,985 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle
    Brundlefly


    Amirani wrote: »
    I'm not sure how much time you've spent in Rome, but there are far more homeless and people with addition issues around the streets than Dublin. But that doesn't suit your narrative of course.
    They're crap at sums?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    Amirani wrote: »
    I'm not sure how much time you've spent in Rome, but there are far more homeless and people with addition issues around the streets than Dublin. But that doesn't suit your narrative of course.

    Was there a few years ago, I didn't see that many homeless people, certainly not in the main Piazza's.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,553 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Was there a few years ago, I didn't see that many homeless people, certainly not in the main Piazza's.

    Didn't stop by Piazza Manzini then? https://www.thelocal.it/20190124/tenth-homeless-person-dies-in-rome-cold

    There are about 8000 homeless in Rome, at least 3000 of which are rough sleepers.

    Comparatively, Dublin has less than 150 rough sleepers.

    So I fail to see how you think it's appropriate for Rome to have welcoming pedestrianised areas, but not Dublin.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,951 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Italian pedestrian spaces are more chaotic than Irish motorways. all the pedestrian only streets have the worlds loudest mopeds flying up and down them at 60km/h, the rules just aren't recognised, especially in the South. if a copper stops a moped the driver just gives him a few euros, a lot less than the official fine and the officer didn't see a thing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,691 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    Apologies if this has been mentioned before: There used to be a loading bay almost on the corner heading out of town by Castlewood Avenue. It is now closed off. Far too short to be of benefit to cyclists, anyone any idea why it was blocked off?

    Lots of delivery vans use that bay ( me included ) can see lots of problems there going forward.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,324 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Is it not being used as a means to widen the footpaths to allow for social distancing?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,057 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I have seen what the cycling activists are able to do, such as standing with their bikes the whole way down Rathmines Road as an (understandable) protest against motorists using their space.

    My point is that public transport users have never been able to do anything analogous to that. Try calling a meeting for public transport users and see how many turn up. I've done this and it is very frustrating.

    That is of course partly the fault of us transport users ourselves, but the net effect is that cyclists as a group are taken seriously while bus commuters are not listened to.

    You should get involved with
    https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters?s=09


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Apologies if this has been mentioned before: There used to be a loading bay almost on the corner heading out of town by Castlewood Avenue. It is now closed off. Far too short to be of benefit to cyclists, anyone any idea why it was blocked off?

    Lots of delivery vans use that bay ( me included ) can see lots of problems there going forward.

    There is always Prince Arthur Tce across the road, or the dedicated loading dock at the back of the swan centre, or the three lanes of traffic + cycle lane that you would be entitled to set down on for 30 mins to load.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I really hate this "I want to drive everywhere whenever I want because we need a metro" attitude - well I hate to break it to you but we're not getting a metro in the next 10 years, or the next 20 years in my opinion. So meanwhile we have to get cars out of the city centre and prioritise more efficient ways of getting around.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,232 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    cgcsb wrote: »
    I don't know how you can think that? there has only been about 4 or 5 km of useable cylce lane built in Dublin in the past decade. Most would agree it's one of the worst EU capitals for cycling.

    The cyclists tend to be well educated, driven & articulate people. Well used to and good at getting their point across.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,951 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    The cyclists tend to be well educated, driven & articulate people. Well used to and good at getting their point across.

    Perhaps but cyclists aren't taken seriously by policy makers, indeed neither are any civic minded people.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,232 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Perhaps but cyclists aren't taken seriously by policy makers, indeed neither are any civic minded people.

    The policy makers and the bureaucrats in between them and the cyclists don't tend to be well educated, driven & articulate people.


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