fundamentalists using covid to ram through measures

Hurrache

1 sheep2 wrote: »

I guess this is just another case of people swearing that O'Connell Street is a zombie wasteland of junkies when it measurably isn't.

Several people have been telling you the reality.

strandroad

Hurrache wrote: »

Several people have been telling you the reality.

Indeed, a very representative photo.

An entire street blocked for the convenience of a handful of drivers. Imagine how many people could walk or cycle down this street instead, in the same space pictured. And how much easier it would be to actually enjoy the businesses lining it.

Ballso

strandroad wrote: »

Indeed, a very representative photo.

An entire street blocked for the convenience of a handful of drivers. Imagine how many people could walk or cycle down this street instead, in the same space pictured. And how much easier it would be to actually enjoy the businesses lining it.

Where are they going like?

wakka12

That picture is just a real sickener, but indeed is very reminsicent of much of my experiences on the street. No other western countries except UK and USA would choke such a beautiful street oozing so much potential with cars , and the on street parking alongside some of the meanest pedestrian footpaths in the city just takes the effin cake

Have to laugh at the posters at the beginning crying about drivers in the pedestrians are 'punished', no theyre not, they are priortitised, pedestrians and cyclists are punished, just look at the above pedestrian experience on one of Dublin's premiere street for cafe and restaurant offerings, disgraceful!

Muahahaha

Its an awful street, Ive often gone up it on the motorbike and its so narrow with all the parked cars you cant get beyond the phalanx of SUVs, they are so wide and there just isnt the space to get around them. So you're left there like an eejit sitting on a motorbike in a traffic jam which completely defeats the point of a motorbike. It happened me one day in a torrential downpour, was literally getting drenched and couldnt move an inch for about six or seven minutes. I avoid it at all costs now because the traffic jams on it back all the way up to the traffic lights out onto Clanbrassil St.

OldGoat

To be fair a lot of those cars in the photo are commercial vehicles and have no option but to use the city center.

Hurrache

There's 2 commercial vehicles driving, and 1 parked. That's a small minority.

L1011

Hurrache wrote: »

There's 2 commercial vehicles driving, and 1 parked. That's a small minority.

There's a Focus van also in the parking/loading bay but its still not even half of the vehicles there.

Hurrache

Actually, yeah, I saw the Focus, didn't really register.

Amirani

OldGoat wrote: »

To be fair a lot of those cars in the photo are commercial vehicles and have no option but to use the city center.

Imagine how much easier it would be for said commercial vehicles if they didn't have to sit in traffic behind private cars?

OldGoat

Amirani wrote: »

Imagine how much easier it would be for said commercial vehicles if they didn't have to sit in traffic behind private cars?

I'm not disagreeing with ya but it should be remembered that a lot of drivers have no other choice but to try and navigate the ever declining number of roads. No matter what road closures are made the commercial traffic will still need access.

Truthvader

So there is a lot of traffic in the City. Is this meant to be "news"?

Do you think people are deciding "must go into town and waste my day sitting in traffic?" I expect, allowing for masochists, those people in the cars are making the best choice available to them. The City environment is already deliberately hostile to cars. Roads are closed off, pedestrianised, blocked, taken over by Luas or bus lands while parking is relentlessly policed. No-one exposes themselves to this by choice.

I expect the Greens/cyclist/ Gretta Thunberg lobby will eventually prevail as they have done over the last 30 years and Dublin will be transformed into some kind of pre-industrial theme park. Maybe that's a good thing? Loads of people think it is. As I was 30 before I got a car I suffered the hostility, unreliability and degradation "public transport" long enough (and cycled to school as a kid.) So over all that and will simply go elsewhere - as so many already do.

L1011

Truthvader wrote: »

So over all that and will simply go elsewhere - as so many already do.

Close the door after you on your way out.


The idea that cities such as Amsterdam or Copenhagen are "pre industrial theme parks" is particularly hilarious. Copenhagen is especially relevant as they did their major moves well before their metro was built.

major interest

Truthvader wrote: »

So there is a lot of traffic in the City. Is this meant to be "news"?

Do you think people are deciding "must go into town and waste my day sitting in traffic?" I expect, allowing for masochists, those people in the cars are making the best choice available to them. The City environment is already deliberately hostile to cars. Roads are closed off, pedestrianised, blocked, taken over by Luas or bus lands while parking is relentlessly policed. No-one exposes themselves to this by choice.

I expect the Greens/cyclist/ Gretta Thunberg lobby will eventually prevail as they have done over the last 30 years and Dublin will be transformed into some kind of pre-industrial theme park. Maybe that's a good thing? Loads of people think it is. As I was 30 before I got a car I suffered the hostility, unreliability and degradation "public transport" long enough (and cycled to school as a kid.) So over all that and will simply go elsewhere - as so many already do.

There will always be some cars transitting through cities. However, there is no need for private cars to be going down city centre streets such as South William street which is narrow and has such high footfall. Transitting through a city can be done on larger arterial routes - there is no need for these to go right through the core.

European capitals tend to have a city centre core of pedestrianised streets and plazas. It lends itself to better shopping/dining/tourism experience. If people must drive and park in the city then it still is possible, it just means a slightly longer walk to get to these core areas/streets.

wakka12

Truthvader wrote: »

So there is a lot of traffic in the City. Is this meant to be "news"?

Do you think people are deciding "must go into town and waste my day sitting in traffic?" I expect, allowing for masochists, those people in the cars are making the best choice available to them. The City environment is already deliberately hostile to cars. Roads are closed off, pedestrianised, blocked, taken over by Luas or bus lands while parking is relentlessly policed. No-one exposes themselves to this by choice.

I expect the Greens/cyclist/ Gretta Thunberg lobby will eventually prevail as they have done over the last 30 years and Dublin will be transformed into some kind of pre-industrial theme park. Maybe that's a good thing? Loads of people think it is. As I was 30 before I got a car I suffered the hostility, unreliability and degradation "public transport" long enough (and cycled to school as a kid.) So over all that and will simply go elsewhere - as so many already do.

You think the trend is in any way unique to Ireland? Most of Europe is already way ahead of us in that regard. There is not a single city on earth trending toward prioritising private cars, because the world has universally realised it is inefficient nonsense

I really take issue with how you say roads are 'hostile' to cars, they aren't, they are simply prioritising far more efficient forms of transport such as cycling bus and tram instead. Why are you advocating for the city to prioritise less efficient transport ?

Dublin is not like Paris and Barcelona and New York , it has narrow roads, we have to make the best of that and there is just no room for cars if we want a working and efficient city

AndrewJRenko

Truthvader wrote: »

I expect the Greens/cyclist/ Gretta Thunberg lobby will eventually prevail as they have done over the last 30 years and Dublin will be transformed into some kind of pre-industrial theme park. Maybe that's a good thing? Loads of people think it is. As I was 30 before I got a car I suffered the hostility, unreliability and degradation "public transport" long enough (and cycled to school as a kid.) So over all that and will simply go elsewhere - as so many already do.

Did you cycle to drama lessons also?

Truthvader

In reply to all. The three cities cited , Amsterdam, New York, and Copenhagen all have functioning Underground systems. ie an alternative to cars that actually works

The policy in Dublin has been driven, not by a wish to provide any alternative but by only by a wish to punish car owners without providing an alternative. Mercifully I have not been on a bus for about 20 years except once. On that occasion I was reminded of the horror of my childhood by the 40 minute wait and the hostility of the driver who refused to give me change. Apparently have to have the exact money now. Have used Luas and Dart occasionally which are good services and if I lived beside a Dart Station and was travelling to a Dart Station I would use it all the time. Often I want to go somewhere an hours walk from a Luas/ Dart so I will take the car. The solution is and always was an Underground but it has been resisted by the bicycle lobby because it does not punish car owners.

Every Winter I have nothing but pity in my heart for those huddled in the rain at bus stops waiting on the off chance that the filthy bus will lumber into view or those forced to cycle (as opposed to the looney cycle nuts with stupid clothes and camera on their helmet) through the rain in their 40's 50's and older.

Anyway lots of support here for a continuation of the policy. Have driven all my life and old enough now that covid 19 might see me off wont have to face the consequences of the policies so enthusiastically supported here. Can't help thinking that I had a good run listening to the radio in warm comfort on the way to work. Hope it works out for you all

Stark

Truthvader wrote:

The solution is and always was an Underground but it has been resisted by the bicycle lobby because it does not punish car owners.

Hahahahahaha.

I don't know a single bicycle lobbyist who isn't pro public transport. The motoring lobbyists on the other hand...

Hurrache

Truthvader wrote: »

resisted by the bicycle lobby because it does not punish car owners.

Lol, they aren't mutually exclusive. Go to any cycling/multisport event and you'll see lots of nice machinery carting bikes around.

Polar101

Truthvader wrote: »

Every Winter I have nothing but pity in my heart for those huddled in the rain at bus stops waiting on the off chance that the filthy bus will lumber into view

I could be wrong, but you don't strike me as a reliable expert when it comes to public transport planning..

Truthvader wrote: »

or those forced to cycle

..or an unbiased expert on cycling.

---

If you have better public transport, more options for cyclists and pedestrians, in general it will mean less car traffic - which makes things better for motorists as well.

L1011

Truthvader wrote: »

In reply to all. The three cities cited , Amsterdam, New York, and Copenhagen all have functioning Underground systems. ie an alternative to cars that actually works

As was already pointed out, Copenhagen made the move to a bike/pedestrian city centre in the 70s and their Metro system only opened in 2002.

Amsterdam's tram network had withered to ONE line and their Metro system was still in design when they started making major moves in that direction.

In both cases, buses provided the core public transport at the time, just as they do here. We're realistically a step ahead of both were at that time as we have trams and a cross-city heavy rail system.

Truthvader wrote: »

The solution is and always was an Underground but it has been resisted by the bicycle lobby because it does not punish car owners.

If you could show a shred of evidence to suggest this isn't anything other than a paranoid delusion of yours, that'd be nice.

Sheeps

It's a disgrace that Dublin City Council are moving to pedestrianisation and cycling. What are we all supposed to do with the extra hours of the day we will have not stuck in traffic when we resume normality?

0lddog

Not great picking Denmark and Netherlands as examples. Ireland is in a different league to them when it comes to economic growth.

cgcsb

subpar wrote: »

What city centre retail and traders need post lockdown is free parking till year end to bring customers back and save their businesses and jobs. This is not the time to be making it more diificult for people to get into the city. Dublin is a sprawling city stretching from Skerries in the North to Bray in the South and Naas in the West. People need a car to access the city centre . Making it harder from them to do so will only force them to use the M50 Retail Parks and lead to an empty and dead city for retailers.

71% of trips to central Dublin were made by sustainable mode in 2019, so your premise is incorrect.

cgcsb

JustAThought wrote: »

I doubt that hundreds of people spontaneously suddenly decided while the city was in lockdown and a killer plague roaming the streets to suddenly decide they all wanted a plaza

you realise this saga predates the virus?

cgcsb

Big Gerry wrote: »

The green head the balls are clueless when it comes to economics or how the real world works.

Actually I find the opposite. All the Facebook Karens who bemoan road space been allocated to sustainable modes are generally ignorant of economics and indeed all forms of academia.

cgcsb

Truthvader wrote: »

Or they can drive to Dundrum and park their car ready to load their shopping when they are finished instead of waiting in the rain for a filthy bus with a hostile driver who wont give you change or a trip in A Luas filled with junkies and feral youth or the long cycle home with you new ironing Board.

Problem with driving to Dundrum is, it's a suburban shopping centre (soulless kip).

If you're still looking to get change of a bus driver in a developed country in 2020, there's no helping you.

cgcsb

RobAMerc wrote: »

I think my original issue was more with the manner in which they are attempting to push this through as part of Covid response - its totally disingenuous and smacks of the fundamentalists trying to subvert normal protocols

normal protocols have produced nothing worth mentioning in decades.

Mullaghteelin

Out of town retail parks have sprung up because of car culture.
They are the result of taking car dependency to the very extreme,
These places are there specifically to cater for motorists.
The city centre, on the other hand, was not built for cars.
When you look at old photos of the city with familiar buildings and streets but no cars, it really hits home.
Its only then you appreciate how recent traffic gridlock, noise and fumes are.
All these things belong on motorways, but not in the heart of a nations capital.

major interest

https://www.dlrcoco.ie/en/news/general-news-public-notices-press-releases/dlr-create-safe-and-dynamic-public-space-pedestrians

Main St in Blackrock village being converted to one way and more space being given to pedestrians and cyclists. Dun Laoghaire Rathdown county council looking to roll out similar measures in other areas it seems.