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fundamentalists using covid to ram through measures

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    #32
    thegetawaycar
    Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭thegetawaycar


    I have no issue with pedestrianising college green, I'd consider it a sensible approach.
    Get as many cars out of the city centre as possible and certainly don't have cars running through it to get to the other side of the city. Footfall tends to increase sales as opposed to car access.
    I would say, if we are going to pedestrianise more of the city then we should have large car parks outside the city with frequent public transport from them.


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    #33
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,687 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    thegetawaycar wrote: »
    I have no issue with pedestrianising college green, I'd consider it a sensible approach.
    Get as many cars out of the city centre as possible and certainly don't have cars running through it to get to the other side of the city. Footfall tends to increase sales as opposed to car access.
    I would say, if we are going to pedestrianise more of the city then we should have large car parks outside the city with frequent public transport from them.

    We need large free parking across all satellite counties and suburbs or close to serviced by regular, tracked bus systems. It should take 40 mins or under to get right into the heart of dublin. That should be the goal.


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    #34
    Big Gerry
    Registered Users Posts: 764 ✭✭✭Big Gerry


    The green head the balls are clueless when it comes to economics or how the real world works.


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    #35
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,300 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    subpar wrote: »
    What city centre retail and traders need post lockdown is free parking till year end to bring customers back and save their businesses and jobs. This is not the time to be making it more diificult for people to get into the city. Dublin is a sprawling city stretching from Skerries in the North to Bray in the South and Naas in the West. People need a car to access the city centre . Making it harder from them to do so will only force them to use the M50 Retail Parks and lead to an empty and dead city for retailers.

    No, people can access by LUAS, DART, Bus, Bike, Feet, Taxi, Or by car.

    People do not need a car. Traffic deters people from shopping in town. There’s a reason why the pedestrianised streets like Grafton street and Henry street are the busiest. Look at George’s street and O’Connell street. Neither support retail.


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    #36
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,816 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    subpar wrote: »
    What city centre retail and traders need post lockdown is free parking till year end to bring customers back and save their businesses and jobs. This is not the time to be making it more diificult for people to get into the city. Dublin is a sprawling city stretching from Skerries in the North to Bray in the South and Naas in the West. People need a car to access the city centre . Making it harder from them to do so will only force them to use the M50 Retail Parks and lead to an empty and dead city for retailers.

    Because Grafton Street just died on its arse and never recovered after pedestrianisation of course.

    What, it has the 13th most expensive retail rents in the world? :eek:


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    #37
    Truthvader
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭Truthvader


    ted1 wrote: »
    No, people can access by LUAS, DART, Bus, Bike, Feet, Taxi, Or by car.

    People do not need a car. Traffic deters people from shopping in town. There’s a reason why the pedestrianised streets like Grafton street and Henry street are the busiest. Look at George’s street and O’Connell street. Neither support retail.

    Or they can drive to Dundrum and park their car ready to load their shopping when they are finished instead of waiting in the rain for a filthy bus with a hostile driver who wont give you change or a trip in A Luas filled with junkies and feral youth or the long cycle home with you new ironing Board.


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    #38
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,816 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Truthvader wrote: »
    Or they can drive to Dundrum and park their car ready to load their shopping when they are finished instead of waiting in the rain for a filthy bus with a hostile driver who wont give you change or a trip in A Luas filled with junkies and feral youth or the long cycle home with you new ironing Board.

    You may want to note that the protesting traders do not, with the possibly exception of Arnotts, sell ironing boards. And the Arnotts ones would be of a premium type you'd just get delivered, even from Arnotts.

    People don't go to the city centre to do food shopping or hardware shopping unless they already live there.


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    #39
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,415 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Truthvader wrote: »
    Or they can drive to Dundrum and park their car ready to load their shopping when they are finished instead of waiting in the rain for a filthy bus with a hostile driver who wont give you change or a trip in A Luas filled with junkies and feral youth or the long cycle home with you new ironing Board.

    Who goes into the city centre to buy an ironing board?

    I remember some of the other nonsense posted when this idea was first mooted. "OMG HOW AM I GOING TO BRING MY NEW TV HOME ON THE BUS?!?!!?!"


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    #40
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,150 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Truthvader wrote: »
    you new ironing Board.

    Who the hell travels into the city to buy an ironing board?


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    #41
    Truthvader
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭Truthvader


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Who the hell travels into the city to buy an ironing board?

    That's the point. No-one goes into town to buy anything except drink or drugs.


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    #42
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,150 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Truthvader wrote: »
    That's the point. No-one goes into town to buy anything except drink or drugs.

    Sure they're hardly going to be driving so. Problem solved by your own logic, no need for cars at all.


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    #43
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,816 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Truthvader wrote: »
    That's the point. No-one goes into town to buy anything except drink or drugs.

    What, precisely, draws retailers (not selling ironing boards, at that) to pay the 13th highest retail rents in the world for Grafton Street then?

    You aren't really making a coherent argument across your own posts.


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    #44
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,615 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Truthvader wrote: »
    Same old same old.Dublin City Council/ Greens will embrace any idea that punishes car owners regardless of consequences. They have no other policy. Keegan destroyed all retail business in Dun Laoghaire and it never recovered from him

    I often see this argument mentioned, mainly in the Journal comments and wonder is it true.

    I would have thought that Dundrum Shopping Centre is what effects Dun Laoighires retail offering which mainly consists of an old and dated shopping centre with very small retail units. Retail has moved on in the last 20 years and the likes of the House of Fraser were never going to set up in DL because retail units there were nowhere near big enough to carry their vast range of stock.

    Last time I was in DL on a Sunday it was absolutely mobbed with daytrippers enjoying the pier. But walk through the shopping centre and there are no shops in there that would drive footfall into it. The things people want are all up in Dundrum. Its not Owen Keegans fault that all these big brands want to be in a modern shopping centre with large units to sell their product ranges.


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    #45
    tricky D
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,700 ✭✭✭tricky D


    Truthvader wrote: »
    That's the point. No-one goes into town to buy anything except drink or drugs.
    Don't post on this thread again until you are able to adhere to the charter, specifically the last item.

    Do not respond to this message on thread.


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    #46
    Ballso
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭Ballso


    Gas thread. I live in the city centre, have a car and would support pedestrianisation of college green.

    The city doesn't exist to cater to people who are so adamant on owning their own property that they bought a house in Arklow and drive in and out every day. The cities residents should come first.


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    #47
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,300 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Truthvader wrote: »
    Or they can drive to Dundrum and park their car ready to load their shopping when they are finished instead of waiting in the rain for a filthy bus with a hostile driver who wont give you change or a trip in A Luas filled with junkies and feral youth or the long cycle home with you new ironing Board.

    I prefer going into town , doing shopping having a pint and getting DART home along the coast.

    Do any shop in Dundrum sell Ironing boards?


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    #48
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,300 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Truthvader wrote: »
    That's the point. No-one goes into town to buy anything except drink or drugs.

    Do BT, Arnotts, Grafton Street, All it’s side streets , powerscourt , Liffey street, Henry street, king a Street, etc are full of shops that no one shops in ?


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    #49
    1 sheep2
    Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭1 sheep2


    I am a strong proponent of pedestrianising College Green, as well as making the streets between George's Street and Grafton street a 'shared space' for cars and pedestrians. But even I am uncomfortable with how these measures have been forced through. It is utterly disingenuous to argue that these changes are essential for health reasons or that cycle lanes are now essential when there has never been less traffic.

    Italian restaurants are required to have at least a metre distance between diners. In this country, there is an hysterical belief that walking within two metres of someone on the footpath is irresponsible.


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    #50
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,291 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    Dublin city councils cycling fundamentalists led by Mr Keegan are now trying to use Covid as an excuse to force through the pedestrianization of College Green, under the pretense of safety for social distancing - this has to be one of the most cynical things Keegan and his Green friends have ever attempted, and is a clear indication they will stop at nothing.
    Having the greens in power could potentially make matters even worse - SF are starting to look like the sane option !

    positive I think you meant


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    #51
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,291 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Can you imagine fighting the cause for cars in city centres?


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    #52
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    I think my original issue was more with the manner in which they are attempting to push this through as part of Covid response - its totally disingenuous and smacks of the fundamentalists trying to subvert normal protocols

    I am not sure as to whether its a good thing or not - but I dont like the way its being done, and I dont like there not being a debate on it.

    Mr Keegan clearly has an agenda to penalise motorists for entering the city with their car, what he doesnt allow for is the upshot of that, which is to penalise tourists or others ( including many legitimate business people ) who need to take a cab or drive to their destination.

    On another note - pedestrianization is a good thing, by passes are a good thing. Until the local council decide to let super Tescos, woodies etc build on those bypasses - effectively donutizing the town centre and leaving honest to jasyus businesses in the centre devoid of customers because they cant get public transport and parking is too expensive.

    I can think of one town where worthless land became prime "retail park" land because they town council forced Tesco out to the bypass - followed by all the big UK brands - now the town centre is dead and they need to bypass the bypass because its chock full of folks going to tesco !

    Removing cars from the CC - ok once there is a plan to help folks get into town. Removing cars just to "take back the roads" is what this lot are at.


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    #53
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    lawred2 wrote: »
    positive I think you meant

    I know exactly what I mean - its a cynical act trying to get this through under false pretense, and shows they are not to be trusted.

    whether its a good thing to pedestrianize the area is tbd


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    #54
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,150 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    whether its a good thing to pedestrianize the area is tbd

    Why is it a bad thing?


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    #55
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Why is it a bad thing?

    exactly - lets have a debate, not have this rammed through as a "covid measure"


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    #56
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,291 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    exactly - lets have a debate, not have this rammed through as a "covid measure"

    what's the debate?


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    #57
    Ballso
    Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭Ballso


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    exactly - lets have a debate, not have this rammed through as a "covid measure"

    Do you live in the city centre yourself?


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    #58
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,150 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    exactly - lets have a debate, not have this rammed through as a "covid measure"

    Wasn't really an answer to the question though. And there's been plenty of debate about it in the past.


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    #59
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,958 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    exactly - lets have a debate, not have this rammed through as a "covid measure"
    Well there are plenty of reasons for what they're doing which cover social distancing, encouraging active travel as well as the obvious ones such as making the city centre safer for the majority of people there and making the air cleaner.

    What positives are there for continuing to have the city centre streets congested?
    Will the new changes be good or bad for the majority of businesses in your view because the stats point towards benefits by making changes such as rhese?

    Face it, cars have no place within the core of the city - any city. The fact that people choose the car shows how much of a failure our transport policies have been for decades. City centres are for people, not as a route for you to get from.A to B in a straight line in your car.


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    #60
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,615 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    exactly - lets have a debate, not have this rammed through as a "covid measure"

    In fairness the debate has already been had and the both the Liffey Cycleway and pedestrianisation of College Green got the green light.


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    #61
    thenightman
    Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭thenightman


    They have had endless debates, public consultations, more debates, more rounds of public consultations, appeals, counter appeals, new plans, rinse repeat over the last decade with the end result of nothing of any significance being changed for the better in and around the city centre. If anything, the Cross City Luas had made things worse for everyone. Now, thanks to Covid we amazingly have segregated cycling on a previously dangerous section of the north quays and DCC acting in spite of handy revenue for themselves by removing on street parking there, increasing what was once a very narrow pavement for pedestrians making the area far more pleasant and SAFE!

    How anybody can argue against these measures is truly beyond me! It's telling the only people doing this arguing are motorists who somehow believe it's their god given right to drive their inefficient space taking vehicles through narrow city centre streets, and lobby groups for car park owners.


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