Public service pay cut?

fliball123

barneystinson wrote: »

OK, that addressed a fraction of my post.

Are you done, not bothering with the hard bits, or will we just park the past, and the policies you wanted to implement the last time that would probably have caused massive harm?

Why should they pay the full cost themselves though? When you compare the public sector to the private sector, the appropriate comparison is to large private sector organisations that try to retain staff, not to your local cafe, or the call centre up the road.

Have a look at this link, maybe you will realise that you are being completely unrealistic in what you said there, and come back to me: https://www.iapf.ie/News/PressReleases/default.aspx?month=5&year=2018&id=47#:~:text=The%20employer%20will%20usually%20pay,somewhere%20between%205%25%2D12%25.

The facts are the there are a lot less pensions in the private sector than in the public sector. Someone in the private sector who has a pension is nearly always a defined contribution. So what age are ps allowed retire to get their pension again by the time this clusterphuck and brexit completes I will be lucky to get my OAP at 80 with the way the government keep putting the age up. Will the government go and raid the private pension pot again like last time?

The facts are I am not paying a pension for anyone in the private sector bar my own. The same cannot be said about public servants thats a fact and unfair as I cant afford to put by for my own.

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

The facts are I am not paying a pension for anyone in the private sector bar my own. The same cannot be said about public servants thats a fact and unfair as I cant afford to put by for my own.

your troubles are your troubles

dont come looking at me

salonfire

salonfire wrote: »

Hope you are not in charge of any decision making or accounts!

You don't seem to understand falling incomes in the private sector means less money to pay your salary.

whhhoooooooooooosssssssssshhhhhhhhhh

Sinzo

fliball123 wrote: »

The facts are the there are a lot less pensions in the private sector than in the public sector. Someone in the private sector who has a pension is nearly always a defined contribution. So what age are ps allowed retire to get their pension again by the time this clusterphuck and brexit completes I will be lucky to get my OAP at 80 with the way the government keep putting the age up. Will the government go and raid the private pension pot again like last time?

The facts are I am not paying a pension for anyone in the private sector bar my own. The same cannot be said about public servants thats a fact and unfair as I cant afford to put by for my own.

There is serious hole in the private sector when it comes to pensions. It will probably turn out that the government will end up forcing private sector workers to pay into a pension in the same way public service workers do.

Everyone including public servants pay towards your very own defined pension. So while you subsidise a public service pension, it is also true to say that public servants also subsidise your pension.

oyvey

Deleted User wrote: »

your troubles are your troubles

dont come looking at me

That's a really bad attitude.

fliball123

Deleted User wrote: »

your troubles are your troubles

dont come looking at me

Sorry they are your troubles the spend side of this equation has to come down as income tax is going to fall off a cliff, your deluded if you think its not your problem and there will be cuts to the ps it might not be this year but it will be coming soon as the spending in this country is unsustainable and if they keep going the IMF will be back in and like last time they will quite rightly so they will point a finger at our high levels of expenditure in both welfare and public sector pay. But keep sticking your head in the sand if you want

barneystinson

fliball123 wrote: »

The facts are the there are a lot less pensions in the private sector than in the public sector. Someone in the private sector who has a pension is nearly always a defined contribution. So what age are ps allowed retire to get their pension again by the time this clusterphuck and brexit completes I will be lucky to get my OAP at 80 with the way the government keep putting the age up. Will the government go and raid the private pension pot again like last time?

The facts are I am not paying a pension for anyone in the private sector bar my own. The same cannot be said about public servants thats a fact and unfair as I cant afford to put by for my own.

Did you read the link?

fliball123

Sinzo wrote: »

There is serious hole in the private sector when it comes to pensions. It will probably turn out that the government will end up forcing private sector workers to pay into a pension in the same way public service workers do.

Everyone including public servants pay towards your very own defined pension. So while you subsidise a public service pension, it is also true to say that public servants also subsidise your pension.

Sorry I pay more than enough tax to cover my state pension which I may get when I am 80 at the rate things are going.

fliball123

barneystinson wrote: »

Did you read the link?

Have you seen the job losses ?

oyvey

oyvey wrote: »

That's a really bad attitude.

whoooooosssshh

ankles

Civil service pensions are now funded by contributions from employer and employee. Changes in PS pensions during the collapse (move to average salary rather than final salary and increased employee contributions) mean that for newer staff the pension deductions are substantial. All in all some 17% of my pay goes to pension deductions of one sort or another. That said, the equivalent employer (governement funding) is some 23% which you would never see now in the private sector. Equally though, I have my doubts as to whether the public sector pension will still be as genrous by the time I draw it down. Would prefer the money now tbh

barneystinson

fliball123 wrote: »

Have you seen the job losses ?

Is that a no? I thought I asked you quite nicely.

Sinzo

fliball123 wrote: »

Sorry I pay more than enough tax to cover my state pension which I may get when I am 80 at the rate things are going.

You pay no more tax than your equivalent public sector worker equivalent.....

barneystinson

Sinzo wrote: »

You pay no more tax than your equivalent public sector worker equivalent.....

Less in fact, since he earns 30% less apparently...

mickuhaha

Has anybody come across the civil service numbers braking down by grade/ job or is this not available to the public.

Sinzo

barneystinson wrote: »

Less in fact, since he earns 30% less apparently...

True dat

barneystinson

mickuhaha wrote: »

Has anybody come across the civil service numbers braking down by grade/ job or is this not available to the public.

What breakdown do you mean, how many people in each grade across the whole civil service?

Sinzo

mickuhaha wrote: »

Has anybody come across the civil service numbers braking down by grade/ job or is this not available to the public.

Its available . Just Google civil service layscales Ireland 2018

mickuhaha

barneystinson wrote: »

What breakdown do you mean, how many people in each grade across the whole civil service?

Yes

barneystinson

mickuhaha wrote: »

Yes

Ah that's definitely knocking around someplace, it's not a state secret like.

Sinzo

barneystinson wrote: »

Ah that's definitely knocking around someplace, it's not a state secret like.

Actually it's pretty hard to get stats. There are about 40k civil servants. About 45% are clerical officers..

cms88

cms88 wrote: »

My mistake. Also where did i say anything about LUAS drivers? Making things up now?

Nurses didn't strike? Where were they doing then when they refused to go to work?

What part of the PS di you work in then? Or maybe you're working for one of the unions?

Also it's funny when you say people blame the public sector when only a few pages back you pretty much blamed the privite sector for the crash etc

Luas is light rail. You stated bus and rail, that includes the LUAS.

Nurses worked to rule which in reality means they don't do a bit of admin work while not being paid. In case you don't realise it, you don't get paid during industrial action.

I'm a Garda. I don't even have the right to join a union and until recently had almost zero employment rights under but labor and health and safety legislation.

I'm pro union because I have seen what happens when collective bargaining is denied and each staff member is on their own.

I continue to blame the private sector because the property bubble was 100% private. From the banks to the construction industry, it was all private companies and private staff. More importantly, it was private businesses making millions for their private sector owners who used private accountants to pay minimum tax.

Let's be clear, I work for my money. I earn it. Every penny. Whether you like it or not, I am important to society and worth my cost. The money I earn mostly goes back into private sector pockets when I buy food, use electricity, internet, TV. When I buy clothing and furniture. When I socialise. During all the events, I'm paying private sector salaries. The rest I pay in taxes both direct and indirect. The other that's left i spend abroad in my family and the summer holiday.

And I work on average about 15 hours overtime a week so when you look at my p21, remember it's based on a 55 hour week, not 30 which is full-time in lidl and Aldi for example

Sinzo

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Luas is light rail. You stated bus and rail, that includes the LUAS.

Nurses worked to rule which in reality means they don't do a bit of admin work while not being paid. In case you don't realise it, you don't get paid during industrial action.

I'm a Garda. I don't even have the right to join a union and until recently had almost zero employment rights under but labor and health and safety legislation.

I'm pro union because I have seen what happens when collective bargaining is denied and each staff member is on their own.

I continue to blame the private sector because the property bubble was 100% private. From the banks to the construction industry, it was all private companies and private staff. More importantly, it was private businesses making millions for their private sector owners who used private accountants to pay minimum tax.

Let's be clear, I work for my money. I earn it. Every penny. Whether you like it or not, I am important to society and worth my cost. They ninety I earn mostly goes back into private sector pockets when I buy food, use electricity, internet, TV. When I buy clothing and furniture. When I socialise. During all the events, I'm paying private sector salaries.

Niner .. your points are well made. Gardai work hard and put their lives and safety on the line every day. There's only a out 10k of you too...

Sinzo

Sinzo wrote: »

Niner .. your points are well made. Gardai work hard and put their lives and safety on the line every day. There's only a out 10k of you too...

So only 9999 better at it than me.

gmisk

Sinzo wrote: »

Actually it's pretty hard to get stats. There are about 40k civil servants. About 45% are clerical officers..

Wow had no idea there were so many COs!
I started as a CO myself so know how tough the work can be, as well as it being pretty poorly paid.

I worked in ICT in private sector before and had plenty of offers of much better money over the years to go back but happy in general in CS.

Threads like this always appear when there is a financial crash or recession. Funny that...nothing when the place is booming.
The CS is open to all so if people think it is such a cushy number apply away nothing stopping you, the process behind getting a role or on a panel is extremely transparent imo.

From my perspective there are huge skill gaps in ICT roles in CS, but hey a lot of people stick with the private sector as there is more money which is grand.

I said this before but I'll repeat it,

Would everyone be happy if the state pension was changed so that ALL tax payers didn't pay any private pensions but their state pension was based on how much tax they paid?

So no company pension, no public sector pension and no private schemes.

You don't work, don't pay tax = minimum pension.

Work and pay tax = pension as a percentage of your total income via paid tax.

salonfire

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Let's be clear, I work for my money. I earn it. Every penny. Whether you like it or not, I am important to society and worth my cost.

No you're not. You're not worth it.

You got lucky in the process of recruitment for the Gardai. You probably didn't even make it in the first time and had to try a few recruitment competitions.
If you didn't make it, there were plenty of others just as capable as you who could take your place.

Others still who would take your place and do so for much less - see the new entrants. Therefore if someone is willing to take your place for much less than you, you are not worth it.

There is no shortage of suitable applicants for your job.

Since you are a Garda, you probably are limited academically as well, so probably would not be a doctor or professor as an alternative. You would be working for very much less than what you get now.

Sinzo

gmisk wrote: »

Wow had no idea there were so many COs!
I started as a CO myself so know how tough the work can be, as well as it being pretty poorly paid.

I worked in ICT in private sector before and had plenty of offers of much better money over the years to go back but happy in general in CS.

Threads like this always appear when there is a financial crash or recession. Funny that...nothing when the place is booming.
The CS is open to all so if people think it is such a cushy number apply away nothing stopping you, the process behind getting a role or on a panel is extremely transparent imo.

From my perspective there are huge skill gaps in ICT roles in CS, but hey a lot of people stick with the private sector as there is more money which is grand.

Hi Gmisk
IT could bit stronger in the CS but lots of things are changing so there might be changes on that front sooner rather than later.
Clerical officers are paid at a out the level of the average industrial wage. It could be worse but it's not exactly rolling in it.. you get to a max of ca. 38 k from 24k after 18 years. Most COs are well qualified and performing responsible roles.
It's difficult enough to keep a family going on that kind of income. But I also accept that admin is not very well paid in most private sector companies...
The security of cs jobs is an undeniable advantage too..

Sinzo

salonfire wrote: »

No you're not. You're not worth it.

You got lucky in the process of recruitment for the Gardai. You probably didn't even make it in the first time and had to try a few recruitment competitions.
If you didn't make it, there were plenty of others just as capable as you who could take your place.

Others still who would take your place and do so for much less - see the new entrants. Therefore if someone is willing to take your place for much less than you, you are not worth it.

There is no shortage of suitable applicants for your job.

Since you are a Garda, you probably are limited academically as well, so probably would not be a doctor or professor as an alternative. You would be working for very much less than what you get now.

How do you know? Your pretty good at criticising someone you dont even know..
Gardai, as far as I know, learn on the job after they leave Templemore. That's the best way to learn.
It's easy to say a job is easy or it should be paid less when you look at it from the outside. Your perceptions may only be that.. perceptions.
Walk in a Gardas shoes and then you will e in a position to give an accurate analysis..

What do you work at yourself as a matter of interest??

gmisk

Sinzo wrote: »

Hi Gmisk
IT could bit stronger in the CS but lots of things are changing so there might be changes on that front sooner rather than later.
Clerical officers are paid at a out the level of the average industrial wage. It could be worse but it's not exactly rolling in it.. you get to a max of ca. 38 k from 24k after 18 years. Most COs are well qualified and performing responsible roles.
It's difficult enough to keep a family going on that kind of income. But I also accept that admin is not very well paid in most private sector companies...
The security of cs jobs is an undeniable advantage too..

I think IT could be a lot stronger there is a massive over reliance on contractors. I am looking for ICT staff currently so I know believe me. But your right the specialist ICT panels should hopefully help.

Of course the job security is a big draw for CS, as is the generally decent work lift balance etc.
But at least in the ICT side of things you are likely sacrificing a higher wage (well in my experience). I worked as a contractor for quite a while before CS.