Bicycles, Phoenix Park and traffic

Birdie Num Num

appledrop wrote: »

The Phoneix Park belongings to everyone

Well said.

KevRossi

appledrop wrote: »

I've news for people. The Phoneix Park belongings to everyone. .

Everyone. Not every car.

It's a shltshow as a major city park with all the car traffic on the side roads. It's designed and had been modified for car use with little thought for pedestrians, cyclist or other non-motorised users over the past few decades.

As an example, there are currently 3 places in the park where a cyclist or pedestrian has a right of way over a car, in all other places (dozens and dozens of them) the car has full priority. That's madness. Totally stupid for a park.

The numbers speak for themselves; there has been a huge uptake in people using it since the restrictions for cars were introduced, so the OPW needs to consider that in developing the park in the future.

FWIW, Chesterfield Avenue was closed to parking to facilitate more space for walkers, not more space for cyclists.

Seth Brundle

appledrop wrote: »

I've news for people. The Phoneix Park belongings to everyone. Current restructions on cars parking +gates closed are ridiculous. Its grand for people who live near to walk or cycle but it belongs to all Dubliners + people come from all over Ireland to visit park or zoo.

The park belongs to everyone without a doubt. It should not be dominated by vehicular traffic. People cannot get proper benefit from the park when drivers have more priority over another users.
Why should people be at a disadvantage within the park because some users want free parking on the main avenue?
In what way did the current arrangements stop you visiting the park or the zoo?

appledrop wrote: »

We went to zoo today + took about 40 mins to get out the gate. There was enough parking beside zoo today but that's because very restricted numbers allowed in zoo. Where are people going to park when zoo fully reopens? No parking whatsoever allowed now along the road.

Traffic was heavy. You being there made it even heavier.
Parking was fine though so not sure about your complaint. Are you just annoyed because you sat in your car on a lovely morning whilst others had safe benefit of the park around you? You feel less important that you're used to?

appledrop wrote: »

Fair enough it shouldn't be used as road for commuting daily but you will always need to allow cars access park, zoo, presidents house etc.

What most people are suggesting is that Chesterfield Ave be blocked to prevent through traffic but that cars can still use it. It should not facilitate free all-day parking to the detriment of all other park users.

Stark

Traffic everywhere in Dublin seemed to be really busy this weekend. Probably a combination of a few things: nice weather and opportunities to get further afield for people, more shopping opportunities, people switching from public transport to cars. Don't think you can blame the extra traffic solely on the park side gates being closed. I imagine a lot of people who would have gotten the bus/train into the city pre-pandemic chose the car option instead, adding to the congestion. Of course, "the park is for everyone" so can't complain too much when you're stuck for 45 minutes in traffic when "everyone" decides to make use of that.

buffalo

KevRossi wrote: »

As an example, there are currently 3 places in the park where a cyclist or pedestrian has a right of way over a car

Where are these places?

magicbastarder

appledrop wrote: »

I've news for people. The Phoneix Park belongings to everyone.

no one is arguing that. but those people weren't all heading to the zoo; the zoo wouldn't have a capacity to take every car heading through the park.

having a queue of traffic 4km long moving at walking pace through the park is clearly unsustainable. and i've seen claims that most cars had a single occupant in them anyway.
probably people heading in to the city centre not willing to take public transport - random calculation; the average occupancy of the cars was 1.5, and each car was taking up 8m of space (i.e. roughly two car lengths), that's a little shy of 800 people travelling in either direction. or, if you're talking shifting bodies through the park, 7 double decker buses worth.

Birdie Num Num

KevRossi wrote: »

The numbers speak for themselves; there has been a huge uptake in people using it since the restrictions for cars were introduced, so the OPW needs to consider that in developing the park in the future.

I really doubt this is the case. The restrictions due to covid 19 and ongoing restrictions are the reason why more people are out in parks in general coupled with the exceptional good weather. The same reason why there are lots more people jogging, cycling, walking on canal towpaths, on the footpaths and roadsides around the country. With workplaces, schools, colleges, gyms, sports clubs, pubs etc. all closed, people have time on their hands and are getting outside.

One thing that I find a tad annoying about this call for full closure to through traffic is that a large cohort of people looking for same are not regular or year round users of the Park. No suggestion poster that you fall into this bracket but I know some that are very vocal and definitely do.

MojoMaker

Are you actually serious?

The people calling for closure to motorised through-traffic are *exactly* the year-round users of the park who are fed up with it being a giant carpark where the motor vehicle is king over all others forms of life in the park.

Pinch Flat

I think we have to accept that the Phoenix park is a throughout fare to the city. The park could be improved by introducing traffic calming and pedestrian crossings- as pointed out earlier There's not much for the pedestrian or cyclist in terms of safe crossings.

Vehicular speeds need to be curtailed as well. I was overtaken driving to the city on Friday night- a road witg a continuous white and info I'm coming traffic. This is not uncommon. Average speed cameras would help curtail this and failing this some decent speed ramps that could double ad pedestrian crossing areas.

9Crimes

I would love to see a toll on cars commuting through the park - Reg readers at either end of Chesterfield avenue and if car spends less than 15/20mins in the park, its commuting through and pays a €5 toll.
Combine this with a shuttle service around the park (and to/from Hueston) and Dublin Bus using the park as a QBC for Carpenterstown, Blanch, and Castleknock to city centre and you would solve a lot (not all I admit) of problems.

The park has been transformed by the reduced traffic and I will need counselling if this situation is reversed.

Grassey

9Crimes wrote: »

I would love to see a toll on cars commuting through the park - Reg readers at either end of Chesterfield avenue and if car spends less than 15/20mins in the park, its commuting through and pays a €5 toll.

And weren't the times this weekend >45 mins to traverse the park? So in essence everyone can be in a traffic jam for free, or park all day for free...

Chips Lovell

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I think we have to accept that the Phoenix park is a throughout fare to the city.

I don't think we have to really. There are alternative routes into the city. They've been closing a section Chesterfield Avenue at weekends for years now. They should just make that permanent.

Seth Brundle

The city cannot cope with the volume of cars trying to get in. People need to use the alternatives and the best way is to improve their access into the city and to dis-incentivise using a car.
So facilitating cars to use the park is a step backwards.

magicbastarder

there's a major issue at the moment in that the government instructions is to only use PT if you don't have an alternative.

Pinch Flat

Chips Lovell wrote: »

I don't think we have to really. There are alternative routes into the city. They've been closing a section Chesterfield Avenue at weekends for years now. They should just make that permanent.

Ah yeah look preaching to the converted. Been cycling through there for years on my way to work. Navan road and chapelizod are already serious bottle necks funelling more cars in there will just make it worse . People may re evaluate their use of the car from castleknock to central Dublin and realise a 30 minute hop on a bike is more patalable. You also have to accept that people will drive no matter what.

Pinch Flat

Chips Lovell wrote: »

I don't think we have to really. There are alternative routes into the city. They've been closing a section Chesterfield Avenue at weekends for years now. They should just make that permanent.

Ah yeah look preaching to the converted. Been cycling through there for years on my way to work. Navan road and chapelizod are already serious bottle necks funelling more cars in there will just make it worse . People may re evaluate their use of the car from castleknock to central Dublin and realise a 30 minute hop on a bike is more patalable. You also have to accept that people will drive no matter what. Maybe routing the 37 / 39 though there could help - an express service from west Dublin to central Dublin.

Spanish Eyes

It seems that the OPW plans to keep traffic through the park, so I've often wondered why car traffic is not funnelled up North Road instead of Chesterfield Avenue.

Achieves the same thing, allows cars from Castleknock to Parkgate and vice versa but keeps the main Avenue car free.

irlirishkev

Just back from the park myself. Queue of cars from the Castleknock Gate, back to just beyond the first roundabout, and building steadily, this was about 1.30pm.

Side roads were still nice and quiet though.

Squashed squirrel on Chesterfield avenue

Also, apols to the cyclist I nearly collided with at the Furry Glen if you're on here. My bad.

magicbastarder

it was a grey squirrel, probably deserved it.

Truthvader

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Ah yeah look preaching to the converted. Been cycling through there for years on my way to work. Navan road and chapelizod are already serious bottle necks funelling more cars in there will just make it worse . People may re evaluate their use of the car from castleknock to central Dublin and realise a 30 minute hop on a bike is more patalable. You also have to accept that people will drive no matter what. Maybe routing the 37 / 39 though there could help - an express service from west Dublin to central Dublin.

When Winter comes people will indeed re-evaluate a "30 minute hop on a bike" but not in the way you think

Pinch Flat

Truthvader wrote: »

When Winter comes people will indeed re-evaluate a "30 minute hop on a bike" but not in the way you think

how come? We've milder winters and drier weather than cities where cycling is more prevalent.

Truthvader

Pinch Flat wrote: »

how come? We've milder winters and drier weather than cities where cycling is more prevalent.

Because its cold and wet and windy.

Anyway your all gung ho - so enjoy yourself. I'll be in my warm car listening to the radio

McGrath5

Truthvader wrote: »

Because its cold and wet and windy.

Anyway your all gung ho - so enjoy yourself. I'll be in my warm car listening to the radio

Been further radicalized by Newstalk

Pinch Flat

Truthvader wrote: »

Because its cold and wet and windy.

Anyway your all gung ho - so enjoy yourself. I'll be in my warm car listening to the radio

Fair play. I could as well. But it makes more sense for me to travel 30 minutes by bike to work rather than 1.5 hours to cover the 13 km to work by car. I suspect private car use is going to rise exponentially post-Covid for the foreseeable, so enjoy that time in the car. I'll be sticking to the bike. Still the same 30 minutes door to door.

cgcsb

Shameful display in the park on Sunday, cars parked on the grass on the side roads and bumper to bumper traffic on chesterfield avenue.

Compared to a few weeks ago the value of the park as a facility is now severely reduced. How hard would it be to just block through traffic at the Phoenix Park Monument roundabout.

Dr_Colossus

Truthvader wrote: »

Because its cold and wet and windy.

Anyway your all gung ho - so enjoy yourself. I'll be in my warm car listening to the radio

Regardless of how cold and wet the weather if you pedal hard enough you'll also be warm.

I cycled through the park year round and it's one aspect of WFH that I miss especially having got through the wet winter to then miss out on all the fine weather of late.

The car parks along Chesterfield Ave now being the cycle lanes sound like a great improvement and hopefully that will be made permanent. Now if only OPW could resurface the actual cycle lanes in and out of the park at Park Gate St it might get a few more onto two wheels.

beggars_bush

Truthvader wrote: »

Because its cold and wet and windy.

Anyway your all gung ho - so enjoy yourself. I'll be in my warm car listening to the radio

They should toll cars for driving through the park

cython

beggars_bush wrote: »

They should toll cars for driving through the park

And use the proceeds to build cycling infrastructure! :pac:

07Lapierre

Truthvader wrote: »

When Winter comes people will indeed re-evaluate a "30 minute hop on a bike" but not in the way you think

Lazy sods!

Birdie Num Num

MojoMaker wrote: »

Are you actually serious?

The people calling for closure to motorised through-traffic are *exactly* the year-round users of the park who are fed up with it being a giant carpark where the motor vehicle is king over all others forms of life in the park.

Cars parked is a very different issue to the Park being used / closed as a through road. Many cyclists are in fact culprits for parking up for the working day and cycling further into the city.