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Bicycles, Phoenix Park and traffic

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    #272
    a148pro
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    You're both right I'm afraid. One is a short term solution, the other is a long term goal.


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    #273
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    a148pro wrote: »
    You're both right I'm afraid. One is a short term solution, the other is a long term goal.

    The plan seems to be take the lock down out of context, and rather have an considered plan. Let just do some knee jerk reaction to social media pressure.


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    #274
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,137 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Phoenix Park gates to stay shut to keep 'safe, quiet' spaces for pedestrians and cyclists
    Motorists set to face new restrictions in the coming months to ‘curb traffic volumes’
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/phoenix-park-gates-to-stay-shut-to-keep-safe-quiet-spaces-for-pedestrians-and-cyclists-1.4289345?mode=amp


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    #275
    a148pro
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    Unfortunately I think this is going to hammer families that don't live right next to the park

    Now that I think of it, is there even a bus route that goes into the park? Classic ireland. Outstanding resource, right beside the city, no useful way of getting there

    How about regular free shuttles with space for bikes looping heuston, 46a and some other useful point within the park?


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    #276
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,069 ✭✭✭buffalo


    a148pro wrote: »
    Unfortunately I think this is going to hammer families that don't live right next to the park

    Why?


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    #277
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,195 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Luas stops relatively close to main gate. 46 a covers near enough 2 gates and the zoo.

    37 goes by a few pedestrian gates and castle knock gate.

    I don't know if there's a route to from chapelizod that goes by southside.

    It's got a massive catchment area.


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    #278
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    "It’s the greatest load of nonsense I ever saw i my life. Cones blocking parking spaces in our own park, this has nothing to do with a virus. Hundreds of people sitting in the grass at the monument but I can’t park my car?"

    Comment from irish times Facebook earlier. So the impromptu car park in the hard shoulder is being removed and dedicated to a cycle lane and people losing their ****e.


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    #279
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    They should rip up their old plan, and just close all the roads. End of.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/phoenix-park-submissions-4664105-May2019/


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    #280
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,965 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    beauf wrote: »
    They should rip up their old plan, and just close all the roads. End of.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/phoenix-park-submissions-4664105-May2019/

    Omg that Alan Patridge reference in the comments is gold.
    Alan Partridge: That was Big Yellow Taxi by Joni Mitchell, a song in which Joni complains they paved paradise to put up a parking lot, a measure which actually would have alleviated traffic congestion on the outskirts of paradise, something which Joni singularly fails to point out, perhaps because it doesn't quite fit in with her blinkered view of the world. Nevertheless, nice song.


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    #281
    a148pro
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    buffalo wrote: »
    Why?

    Impossible to safely get to the park with bikes without car

    Very difficult to negotiate large swathes of the park with young kids without bikes or car


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    #282
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    a148pro wrote: »
    Impossible to safely get to the park with bikes without car

    Very difficult to negotiate large swathes of the park with young kids without bikes or car
    Impossible? Really?
    You couldn't, for example, park your car outside the park and walk or cycle in?


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    #283
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Impossible? Really?
    You couldn't, for example, park your car outside the park and walk or cycle in?

    Where is the parking outside the park.


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    #284
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    The park isn't being closed to cars. What they want to do is reduce the amount of people driving through the park, not preventing people driving to the park.

    We went there this week with two three year-olds (in our car!!!). Zero hassle.


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    #285
    a148pro
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Impossible? Really?
    You couldn't, for example, park your car outside the park and walk or cycle in?

    Thank you for your very kind and informed suggestion but there's very limited parking outside the park. There is certainly not enough to accommodate the number of people who go there on a busy day. During the lockdown there was one day there were literally thousands of cyclists and loads of families in there. It was fantastic. But its not viable for me and my family to cycle there with current levels of traffic.
    Chips Lovell wrote: »
    The park isn't being closed to cars. What they want to do is reduce the amount of people driving through the park, not preventing people driving to the park.

    We went there this week with two three year-olds (in our car!!!). Zero hassle.

    Delighted to hear that but I don't think it would be as viable on a sunny weekend day as the park doesn't have enough parking to accommodate that (unless I'm wrong or they've factored in reduced Zoo numbers).

    Also, while the long term suggestion in the article appears to be to remove through traffic, that isn't the current measure, which leaves the main avenue open to traffic. It seems they're just making it harder to park in the park. As usual with the Park's traffic measures, most people will only realize this once they arrive, which is just going to create more traffic and hassle. I sincerely hope they are going to close the side roads like they did during the lockdown as otherwise it will be utterly pointless.

    I also think removing the through traffic is likely, unfortunately, to be unviable as it will just lead to the adjacent roads getting clogged up.

    I re-iterate that I fully support removing traffic from the park as long as this doesn't impede people's capacity to use it. This would involve providing viable alternatives. What they've done thus far makes cycling the central avenue less enjoyable and loses all those parking spaces for very little gain. They should leave that parking until there is a viable alternative and put in proper pedestrian / cycling prioritized crossing points across that avenue. Cyclists actually get relatively little out of the central road itself, its closing all of the side avenues that makes things attractive (imo).


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    #286
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Chips Lovell wrote: »
    The park isn't being closed to cars. What they want to do is reduce the amount of people driving through the park, not preventing people driving to the park.

    We went there this week with two three year-olds (in our car!!!). Zero hassle.

    They have reduced the amount of parking.

    Say I would normally drive into the Castleknock gate. Park 20m inside the gate and go for a walk. Where would I park now. Where is the nearest place to park. Visitor center?

    Say I would normally park at the mount Sackville gate go for a walk from there. Now I have to go into the Castleknock gate and drive down to it.

    Both scenerio's now require the person to drive longer in the park than they would have previously.

    The zoo car park overflowed constantly. Worse on bank holidays etc. A lot of it parking on the ave. They've reduced the parking for Zoo by removing it from the ave.

    If the aim is to stop people driving through the park. Then it's a little odd that I can still drive through the park to the city center. I may get stuck in a longer queue than normal but otherwise it's unchanged.

    Ditto commuter parking. I could park in any of the open car parks and go to work. Nothing stopping me doing that either.

    I won't be doing either. Because I'm working from home. Likely to be doing that for months.


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    #287
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    a148pro wrote: »
    ..... This would involve providing viable alternatives. What they've done thus far makes cycling the central avenue less enjoyable and loses all those parking spaces for very little gain. They should leave that parking until there is a viable alternative and put in proper pedestrian / cycling prioritized crossing points across that avenue. Cyclists actually get relatively little out of the central road itself, its closing all of the side avenues that makes things attractive (imo)...

    There is one group it works for. Fast commuting cyclists. They found the existing bike lane too slow. They now can go full speed the length of the park. Side roads and parking not an issue for them. Another group is sports cyclists training the quieter roads facilitate high speed training.

    Many being vocal about the park are probably in this group.


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    #288
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    beauf wrote: »
    There is one group it works for. Fast commuting cyclists. They found the existing bike lane too slow. They now can go full speed the length of the park. Side roads and parking not an issue for them. Another group is sports cyclists training the quieter roads facilitate high speed training.

    The majority being vocal about the park are in this group.

    None of the people calling for this that I know are in that group. And I know some of the people that were calling the loudest.


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    #289
    a148pro
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    I'd say that group supports it alright, the number of high end bikes in there during lockdown was incredible, some of the nicest bikes I've ever seen

    But I would think the majority are people who live near the park and / or want to see it car free and do not need to drive there to use it. And that majority are sincere and well motivated, its just unfortunate that these measures affect other users, like those in our situation, badly.


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    #290
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Peregrine wrote: »
    None of the people calling for this that I know are in that group. And I know some of the people that were calling the loudest.

    I obviously don't know who you know, so can't comment on that. But you are right they generally mention the green party and environmentalists along with the cycling groups in the press.


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    #291
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    beauf wrote: »
    Where is the parking outside the park.
    R109 has plenty of space for starters.


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    #292
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    R109 has plenty of space for starters.

    Where? The majority of the R109 has no parking.


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    #293
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    beauf wrote: »
    Where? The majority of the R109 has no parking.
    The first place I looked...
    R109
    https://maps.app.goo.gl/BHYeP1R6cshHPpZW6

    Maybe if all the roads are full then head to a multi-storey in the city centre and get the luas or bus to the park.


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    #294
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    The first place I looked...
    R109
    https://maps.app.goo.gl/BHYeP1R6cshHPpZW6

    Maybe if all the roads are full then head to a multi-storey in the city centre and get the luas or bus to the park.

    Which part you want people to park in. The Bus lane or the cycle lane? Pavement?


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    #295
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    beauf wrote: »
    Which part you want people to park in. The Bus lane or the cycle lane? Pavement?
    Erm, neither. Theres a fine road that you can park on there!


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    #296
    eeeee
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,840 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    beauf wrote: »
    There is one group it works for. Fast commuting cyclists. They found the existing bike lane too slow. They now can go full speed the length of the park. Side roads and parking not an issue for them. Another group is sports cyclists training the quieter roads facilitate high speed training.

    Many being vocal about the park are probably in this group.

    This is a completely baseless judgement. There is no data to support this bar personal opinion.

    Plenty of people want less parking and through traffic in the park. Families, older people, younger people, and everyone in between. The only uniting factor between these people is that they want a public park that is safe, not a through way, a commuter rat run or a carpark.


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    #297
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    beauf wrote: »
    Which part you want people to park in. The Bus lane or the cycle lane? Pavement?

    This is amazing. You only considered the three places there where it would be illegal to park and didn't even think of the one place you can park.


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    #298
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I didn't occur me to park in the lane obstruction traffic. I was looking for off street parking.

    But I see blocking cars causing more obstruction. Its a win win. Perfect.


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    #299
    a148pro
    Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭a148pro


    Peregrine wrote: »
    This is amazing. You only considered the three places there where it would be illegal to park and didn't even think of the one place you can park.

    Swing the google map around there and have a look at it. It appears you are suggesting parking in the only lane of the road. I think its your suggestion that is amazing.

    There's a handful of parking spaces at the start of that stretch outside some flats, after that there are no parking spaces as far as I know until Chapelizid. There's also some places between Islandbridge and the bus depot, but nowhere near enough to serve the needs of the park.

    There was, however, about 5 miles of parking on the otherwise useless road down the middle which have now been lost, for better or for worse.

    I'd love to see them make better use of the lands along the R109, either create parking for the park and create more entrances to facilitate it or indeed create more park down to the river. Its presumably private land though.


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    #300
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    a148pro wrote: »
    Swing the google map around there and have a look at it. It appears you are suggesting parking in the only lane of the road. I think its your suggestion that is amazing....

    It's great idea really. You can make what was wide enough for 4 lanes now effectively one lane. Drive a lot of traffic down though chapelizod and tower road. They've already made the grid lock on those much worse. So it really is the perfect strategy.

    Another plus it make all the other parks more popular.


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    #301
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    a148pro wrote: »
    Swing the google map around there and have a look at it. It appears you are suggesting parking in the only lane of the road. I think its your suggestion that is amazing.

    I'm not necessarily telling you to park there, I'm just surprised the response wasn't "I don't want to obstruct cars even if it is legal". Consideration was only given to the possibility of illegally obstructing pedestrians, buses or people on bikes. The legal option of obstructing cars wasn't even considered. I think that mentality is amazing.

    Anyway, carry on.


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