Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

Jack1985

Aer Lingus undertaking review of continued operational viability of its Cork and Shannon bases and signalling intent of mass layoffs.

roundymac

Oooh, BA are getting rid of their A318, will this mean the end of the LCY-JFK via SNN?

Growler!!!

roundymac wrote: »

Oooh, BA are getting rid of their A318, will this mean the end of the LCY-JFK via SNN?

I would say so, do BA have anything else that can operate out of LCY and has ETOPS capability?

https://twitter.com/AeronewsGlobal/status/1289143182589132800?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Lapmo_Dancer

Small fry in the grand scheme of things, but perhaps a time will come when EI will regret canning DUB-LCY.

In normal times, LCY-DUB-US with pre-clearance would certainly be an attractive option for the significant business market in Canary Wharf as opposed to the trek across London to LHR.

California Dreamer

roundymac wrote: »

Oooh, BA are getting rid of their A318, will this mean the end of the LCY-JFK via SNN?

Wonder would there be a market for someone to take over the service? Maybe Titan who have their other 318

Foggy43

roundymac wrote: »

Oooh, BA are getting rid of their A318, will this mean the end of the LCY-JFK via SNN?

BA have said long before Coronavirus that once the Queen Elizabeth train line was up and running they would cease the LCY-SNN-JFK service.

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/elizabeth-line-when-fully-open.pdf Ex flyers would travel by train from Canary Wharf to LHR T5

Jack1985

6 A320s, 3 A330s (all three in CQM) grounded for the next few years (medium term; initial plan)
A321neo LR will be introduced as planned as ''right size'' aircraft for predicted market as I referred to previously (but dependent on Virus)
Headcount reduction will be greater than planned
Support and operational staff 50-70% cut in hours and pay
Cork and Shannon bases downsizing if not closed short-term (if restrictions continue) with layoff of ground and cabin crew

Van.Bosch

Jack1985 wrote: »

6 A320s, 3 A330s (all three in CQM) grounded for the next few years (medium term; initial plan)
A321neo LR will be introduced as planned as ''right size'' aircraft for predicted market as I referred to previously (but dependent on Virus)
Headcount reduction will be greater than planned
Support and operational staff 50-70% cut in hours and pay
Cork and Shannon bases downsizing if not closed short-term (if restrictions continue) with layoff of ground and cabin crew

Pretty brutal isn’t it, looking through the presentation paints a tough picture. 9% LF for AerLingus in Q2, and that’s on very little flying.

Jack1985

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Pretty brutal isn’t it, looking through the presentation paints a tough picture. 9% LF for AerLingus in Q2, and that’s on very little flying.

It's pretty devastating, a complete U-turn in the performance of the airline to tinkering on critical.

Fundamentally it is clear that the Irish Gov approach is exacerbating all problems, it's not just EI with a low LF in operating to/from Ireland. The Group of airlines LF's are recovering, BA catching up to IB/VY with targeted resumption of leisure flying which is performing well to certain markets (e.g. Italy, Greece).

Despite EI's attempt, it has failed to materialise.

marno21

Cork had flights running through the lockdown. 5pw to LHR. AMS has also returned since 20th of July

Stobart flights were to resume tomorrow but these aren't bookable til October 25th now.

cson

Captain_Crash wrote: »

It appears EI got off lightly compared to other airlines within IAG. Less of a reduction than I would have expected

"Exiting A318 fleet"

> Isn't it just 1 aircraft anyway?!

Foggy43

cson wrote: »

"Exiting A318 fleet"

> Isn't it just 1 aircraft anyway?!

Yes. G-EUNA

billy few mates

Captain_Crash wrote: »

It appears EI got off lightly compared to other airlines within IAG. Less of a reduction than I would have expected

Were the four B757 wet leases not already finished before all this happened?

Van.Bosch

billy few mates wrote: »

Were the four B757 wet leases not already finished before all this happened?

Yeah

Tenger

billy few mates wrote: »

Were the four B757 wet leases not already finished before all this happened?

Yup. Already planned for last one to go in April/May.
As was the outsourcing of catering.

But never waste a good crisis to appear in more dire straits in order to make cuts elsewhere
(of course losing €1.5m a day is really dire)

sherology

Lapmo_Dancer wrote: »

Small fry in the grand scheme of things, but perhaps a time will come when EI will regret canning DUB-LCY.

In normal times, LCY-DUB-US with pre-clearance would certainly be an attractive option for the significant business market in Canary Wharf as opposed to the trek across London to LHR.

An a220 can do this direct I think and more efficiently... So it was on-the-outs for a while, and LCY-JFK might return using this equipment (post-covid).

Looks like EI will be continuing with the a321lr expansion... I thought they might push those out or cancel to save outlay.

kub

sherology wrote: »

An a220 can do this direct I think and more efficiently... So it was on-the-outs for a while, and LCY-JFK might return using this equipment (post-covid).

Looks like EI will be continuing with the a321lr expansion... I thought they might push those out or cancel to save outlay.

Is the runway long enough in LCY to fuel an A220 for an Atlantic crossing ?

sherology

kub wrote: »

Is the runway long enough in LCY to fuel an A220 for an Atlantic crossing ?

It's hard to find definitive information but it did fly from and then back to Montreal during its LCY steep-bank certification (to much capability fanfare), and has since had MTOW/range increases. In a biz-class configuration, and perhaps with further engine improvements its certainly the 'one' to do it if not now, in future iterations.

Van.Bosch

Lapmo_Dancer wrote: »

Small fry in the grand scheme of things, but perhaps a time will come when EI will regret canning DUB-LCY.

In normal times, LCY-DUB-US with pre-clearance would certainly be an attractive option for the significant business market in Canary Wharf as opposed to the trek across London to LHR.

They can just codeshare with BA, also I wouldn’t be surprised to see Stobart start that for EI Regional once demand isn’t back

billy few mates

Tenger wrote: »

Yup. Already planned for last one to go in April/May.
As was the outsourcing of catering.

But never waste a good crisis to appear in more dire straits in order to make cuts elsewhere
(of course losing €1.5m a day is really dire)

So does that slide is not really accurate.

If the 757 wet leases were still active at the time of the crisis EI could have handed them back and walked away but the wet lease was already finished so the aircraft had already been handed back and replaced by more expensive A321LRs on operating leases which they're now stuck with.

kona

billy few mates wrote: »

So does that slide is not really accurate.

If the 757 wet leases were still active at the time of the crisis EI could have handed them back and walked away but the wet lease was already finished so the aircraft had already been handed back and replaced by more expensive A321LRs on operating leases which they're now stuck with.

I may be wrong but I think those lr were bought by ei and sold to a lease company, then leased back.

Jack1985

CJX wet lease was terminated early as a result of the pandemic had originally been planned to leave the fleet on 30/04.

Tenger

Jack1985 wrote: »

CJX wet lease was terminated early as a result of the pandemic had originally been planned to leave the fleet on 30/04.

Exactly, the devil is in the details. The contract on a single aircraft (as well as the entire ASL operation) was terminated approx 6 weeks early.
But somehow the “ending lease on 4x B757” was included in the slide.


A mate showed me the CEO message this evening.
He threatened “compulsory redundancies”. Blamed Irish Govt and the unions.
She said they have been told there will be no increase in flights after the current rostered duties, which is up to mid Sept. (so no increase until mid October)

That’s not a good situation at all.

kona

Tenger wrote: »

Exactly, the devil is in the details. The contract on a single aircraft (as well as the entire ASL operation) was terminated approx 6 weeks early.
But somehow the “ending lease on 4x B757” was included in the slide.


A mate showed me the CEO message this evening.
He threatened “compulsory redundancies”. Blamed Irish Govt and the unions.
She said they have been told there will be no increase in flights after the current rostered duties, which is up to mid Sept. (so no increase until mid October)

That’s not a good situation at all.

Blame all they want, from what i cant see all they have done is whinge and look to take money off people.

Why dont they explore taking a a330 and doing the necessary work and use it for cargo ops, even if its restricted for certain things, some money is better than no money. This doesn't look like ending anytime soon so it may keep the lights on.

Any management or ceo can look like rockstars when the world is booming and your company can name its price, they had no problem letting everybody know too.

Phen2206

kona wrote: »

Why dont they explore taking a a330 and doing the necessary work and use it for cargo ops, even if its restricted for certain things, some money is better than no money. This doesn't look like ending anytime soon so it may keep the lights on.

They've done that with the China PPE operation and the Korean operation which is ongoing right now. I don't get the point you're trying to make here

kona

Phen2206 wrote: »

They've done that with the China PPE operation and the Korean operation which is ongoing right now. I don't get the point you're trying to make here

No they are throwing lightweight masks on seats,

They should explore getting modifications done to the cabins to take more cargo such as the many amounts of medical supplies which are being trucked to the uk for export or perhaps they could have tried to get the contracts that virgin Atlantic have?

Im taking about exploringthe idea of using their aircraft for more long term cargo ops, not a last minute cobbled together plan to help out the country in a time of need.

Tenger

kona wrote: »

.......
Im taking about exploringthe idea of using their aircraft for more long term cargo ops, not a last minute cobbled together plan to help out the country in a time of need.

Previously I would have suggested there was no need to reconfigure an A330.
However with the official announcement on mothballing 3 of them, there could be scope for having a single cargo capable airframe (obviously not equal to an A330) ready to take work as it appears.

donkey balls

kona wrote: »

No they are throwing lightweight masks on seats,

They should explore getting modifications done to the cabins to take more cargo such as the many amounts of medical supplies which are being trucked to the uk for export or perhaps they could have tried to get the contracts that virgin Atlantic have?

Im taking about exploringthe idea of using their aircraft for more long term cargo ops, not a last minute cobbled together plan to help out the country in a time of need.

A lot of airfreight before the pandemic was trucked to the UK and has been for years, I read an article about BA taking out the seats on one of the 777.
Hate to be the person hand balling all the freight on to that aircraft.

goingnowhere

EI is generating a considerable cash flow out of the PPE ops, keeping aircraft and crews active.

Now you could rip the seats out of -LAX and make fewer trips. It would have to be -LAX as its likely to be razorblades next year, and it has the go anywhere range and the 242 MTOW, but its got less hold space as a -200 so benefit might not be as big as you might think

billy few mates

Jack1985 wrote: »

CJX wet lease was terminated early as a result of the pandemic had originally been planned to leave the fleet on 30/04.

That's the point, they were able to terminate the one remaining wet lease a few weeks early to get it off the books but they're stuck with the operating leases of the LRs that replaced them, but that's not exactly what the slide is suggesting.