Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

MrDavid1976

VonLuck wrote: »

How do you figure that?

Maybe people’s phones should be used as evidence. Fine people or perhaps remove the 5km limit for 4 weeks as punishment? The technology is there to do this.

lord quackinton

lord quackinton wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/300000-will-be-out-of-work-for-years-to-come-39205475.html

Those who called this lockdown a noose around the youth of this country’s neck were accused of being selfish and looking after their own nest
The reality is the lock down fanatics were the real ones looking after their own personal interests.

What is the biggest mistake made by the government in this crisis?
It’s obvious that Financial professionals and business leaders should have been in charge from the start not medical professionals

I feel sorry for those who blindly supported this lock down - ye just never understood what was truly at stake

Ah. Come on. You aren't seriously suggesting someone like Michael O'Leary was in charge of the response to COVID-19 in Ireland? What does any business leader know about epidemiology? How does a business leader scale up ICU's? The people here who are villfying the initial lockdown would be the same people complaining if the HSE had collapsed due to the strain of COVID-19?

Would you want an accountant to place a stent?

Fann Linn

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah. Come on. You aren't seriously suggesting someone like Michael O'Leary was in charge of the response to COVID-19 in Ireland? What does any business leader know about epidemiology? How does a business leader scale up ICU's? The people here who are villfying the initial lockdown would be the same people complaining if the HSE had collapsed due to the strain of COVID-19?

Would you want an accountant to place a stent?

Here's a few more financial and business 'expert's for him,
Eddie Hobbs.
Jim 'soft landing' Power.
Sean Quinn.
Michael Fingleton.
Sean Fitzpatrick.

silverharp

silverharp wrote: »

In the US doctors are treated as high risk when they get loans to set up a practice. You certainly wouldn't want them running or dictating how an economy is run, its totally outside their lanes

NPHET advices the government. At the end of the day, it's the elected politicians who make the decisions about the lockdown.

But this belief that "business leaders" should have been in charge of the lockdown is laughable. What do business leaders know about viruses? Some people are really losing the run of themselves on this thread. Embarrassing really.

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah. Come on. You aren't seriously suggesting someone like Michael O'Leary was in charge of the response to COVID-19 in Ireland? What does any business leader know about epidemiology? How does a business leader scale up ICU's? The people here who are villfying the initial lockdown would be the same people complaining if the HSE had collapsed due to the strain of COVID-19?

Would you want an accountant to place a stent?

If MOL had been in charge, there'd have been no lockdown and anyone who wanted a test would have to pay for it.

Back in March Ryanair had a press release that basically said, "If governments weren't forcing us to ground our planes, we would be flying reagrdless of the epidemic".

MOL is actually a perfect example of why governments should be in control and not "business leaders". The latter will put profit above all else.

CruelSummer

lord quackinton wrote: »

the solution is never more government.
think of the logic of this.
we are all currently waiting on government advice/guideline with regard to what employers and employees must do so they are allowed to return to work. we are told to break any of these guidelines will mean places of work will be shut. this is serious stuff.

but since the lock down starting many employees have not stopped working and have been doing so without the new work government guidelines we are promised.

for me this sums why all government and its agencies are beyond useless and why we cannot trust tony holohan or leo the dope.
one has worked too long in the public sector and the other is a professional politician. you get stupider the longer you are involved in those fields.

I have to disagree with this post. The one thing lacking in Ireland during this crisis is strong government, leadership and people standing up and taking the tough decisions. Instead we have people hiding behind Dr Tony and NPHET who will then engage in covering themselves as no one wants to take responsibility. Dr Tony at press conferences every day while the politicians who should be standing beside him are missing.
Also I do not support public service bashing, this old argument of public v private gets us nowhere. There are strengths and weaknesses to both.

The HorsesMouth

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah. Come on. You aren't seriously suggesting someone like Michael O'Leary was in charge of the response to COVID-19 in Ireland? What does any business leader know about epidemiology? How does a business leader scale up ICU's? The people here who are villfying the initial lockdown would be the same people complaining if the HSE had collapsed due to the strain of COVID-19?

Would you want an accountant to place a stent?

I think you're right to a degree but while the health guys have none a decent job so far it's now time to bring in people from all walks of life to go through the nitty gritty of this. Although I'd stop at the idea of Michael O Leary getting involved.
Scientists, public health experts, sociologists, child psychologists, education leaders, business leaders, private and public hospital consultants should all play a part from now on.

pjohnson

seamus wrote: »

MOL is actually a perfect example of why governments should be in control and not "business leaders". The latter will put profit above all else.

So he'd appeal to people like Quackydoo!

I believe Quaky said he'd happily accept 10k deaths to "save" the Irish Economy.

facehugger99

Deleted User wrote: »

NPHET advices the government. At the end of the day, it's the elected politicians who make the decisions about the lockdown.

But this belief that "business leaders" should have been in charge of the lockdown is laughable. What do business leaders know about viruses? Some people are really losing the run of themselves on this thread. Embarrassing really.

Good job nobody suggested that so.


The medical effects of Covid-19 are all but negligible to the vast majority of the population. The economic effects have seen nearly 1 million extra people have to rely on State supports.

What's really 'laughable' about this situation is the fact that Govt appear be only taking advice from medical experts and rubber stamping their 'solutions'.

silverharp

Deleted User wrote: »

NPHET advices the government. At the end of the day, it's the elected politicians who make the decisions about the lockdown.

But this belief that "business leaders" should have been in charge of the lockdown is laughable. What do business leaders know about viruses? Some people are really losing the run of themselves on this thread. Embarrassing really.

you need people that are capable of making decisions based on expert advice ie people that good at seeing the whole field. Im just saying it would be a disaster if a country was run by a bunch of doctors.

The HorsesMouth

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

I think you're right to a degree but while the health guys have none a decent job so far it's now time to bring in people from all walks of life to go through the nitty gritty of this. Although I'd stop at the idea of Michael O Leary getting involved.
Scientists, public health experts, sociologists, child psychologists, education leaders, business leaders, private and public hospital consultants should all play a part from now on.

This is actually reasonable.

For the record, I actually do think the lockdown is too slow in relaxing. It's just some posters have absolutely lost the run of themselves calling themselves the "pro-economic brigade" or whatnot. Many of them have little or no understanding of the virus or how things could have gone a lot worse for Ireland. They seem to think that just because the hospitals weren't overrun, the lockdown was an over-reaction and dictatorial. When it was those steps we took in lockdown preventing it.

silverharp

silverharp wrote: »

you need people that are capable of making decisions based on expert advice ie people that good at seeing the whole field. Im just saying it would be a disaster if a country was run by a bunch of doctors.

The country isn't run by a bunch of doctors. Any business leader would only be looking after their own interests if allowed make decisions. That's why we have elected officials.

ChelseaRentBoy

lord quackinton wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/300000-will-be-out-of-work-for-years-to-come-39205475.html

Those who called this lockdown a noose around the youth of this country’s neck were accused of being selfish and looking after their own nest
The reality is the lock down fanatics were the real ones looking after their own personal interests.

What is the biggest mistake made by the government in this crisis?
It’s obvious that Financial professionals and business leaders should have been in charge from the start not medical professionals

I feel sorry for those who blindly supported this lock down - ye just never understood what was truly at stake

I hope this post is a piss take otherwise you have literally zero idea what you are talking about.

The HorsesMouth

Another thing...

When is the media in particular going to address the biggest elephant in the room of all time and start questioning if social distancing in particular circumstances is actually feasible or warranted?

I'm not saying that lifting social distancing requirements is the right thing....I don't know. But we damn well need a conversation opened up about it.

facehugger99

facehugger99 wrote: »

Good job nobody suggested that so.


The medical effects of Covid-19 are all but negligible to the vast majority of the population. The economic effects have seen nearly 1 million extra people have to rely on State supports.

What's really 'laughable' about this situation is the fact that Govt appear be only taking advice from medical experts and rubber stamping their 'solutions'.

Literally, the person I quoted suggested it. It may not kill many young people but there have been many young people (IE <55 tears old) hospitalised due to COVID-19. If you are admitted to hospital, there is likely a lay off of 1-3 months before fully recovering.

People here are actually really underestimating the effect that COVID-19 can have on a normal young person. But it suits some agendas to pretend that only a tiny minority of people under 55 have any ill effects due to COVID-19.

silverharp

Deleted User wrote: »

This is actually reasonable.

For the record, I actually do think the lockdown is too slow in relaxing. It's just some posters have absolutely lost the run of themselves calling themselves the "pro-economic brigade" or whatnot. Many of them have little or no understanding of the virus or how things could have gone a lot worse for Ireland. They seem to think that just because the hospitals weren't overrun, the lockdown was an over-reaction and dictatorial. When it was those steps we took in lockdown preventing it.

there is a crossover point but knowing that point is impossible, any economy can probably survive a 6 week just down, a 3 month shut down gets you into dodgy and an unknown space. Past August and i'd be betting on a depression which would destroy the economy and kill far more people in the long run

MrDavid1976

CruelSummer wrote: »

I have to disagree with this post. The one thing lacking in Ireland during this crisis is strong government, leadership and people standing up and taking the tough decisions. Instead we have people hiding behind Dr Tony and NPHET who will then engage in covering themselves as no one wants to take responsibility. Dr Tony at press conferences every day while the politicians who should be standing beside him are missing.
Also I do not support public service bashing, this old argument of public v private gets us nowhere. There are strengths and weaknesses to both.

The biggest concern in all this is governance. Who is advising the Government? Who is actually making the decisions.

The CMO contradicting the Taoiseach yesterday was worrying on many levels. At the same time they have not properly managed the known risks.

It is clear the phased plan to reopen the country was written by the medics. It did not take due account of the interlinkages and enablers of a modern economy. Childcare, education, public transport.

beggars_bush

seamus wrote: »

If MOL had been in charge, there'd have been no lockdown and anyone who wanted a test would have to pay for it.

Back in March Ryanair had a press release that basically said, "If governments weren't forcing us to ground our planes, we would be flying reagrdless of the epidemic".

MOL is actually a perfect example of why governments should be in control and not "business leaders". The latter will put profit above all else.

MOL is paid to maximise profits for his bosses. Shock horror that he wouldn't want a lockdown.
Anyway, medical people advise, politicians decide

seamus

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

The biggest concern in all this is governance. Who is advising the Government? Who is actually making the decisions.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113416810&postcount=3015

FintanMcluskey

seamus wrote: »

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113416810&postcount=3015

So one can interpret that NPHET are now the assumed government the head of whom is also the CMO, and also refuses to publish meeting minutes and communicates targets in the form of soundbites such as "as low as possible". That same head of NPHET spoke in complete contradiction of the Taoiseach last evening.
I think its fair to ask who is in charge.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Literally, the person I quoted suggested it. It may not kill many young people but there have been many young people (IE <55 tears old) hospitalised due to COVID-19. If you are admitted to hospital, there is likely a lay off of 1-3 months before fully recovering.

People here are actually really underestimating the effect that COVID-19 can have on a normal young person. But it suits some agendas to pretend that only a tiny minority of people under 55 have any ill effects due to COVID-19.

Because that is literally what the stats are telling us. Some anecdotal stories doesn't prove otherwise.

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

So one can interpret that NPHET are now the assumed government the head of whom is also the CMO, and also refuses to publish meeting minutes and communicates targets in the form of soundbites such as "as low as possible". That same head of NPHET spoke in complete contradiction of the Taoiseach last evening.
I think its fair to ask who is in charge.

Embarrassing hyperbole. It's completely obvious that Leo Varadkar is in charge. He could fire Tony Holohan tomorrow if he wanted. This talk of "assumed government" is almost as embarassing as when the other day you said that seasonal flu = COVID-19.

the kelt

Deleted User wrote: »

This is actually reasonable.

For the record, I actually do think the lockdown is too slow in relaxing. It's just some posters have absolutely lost the run of themselves calling themselves the "pro-economic brigade" or whatnot. Many of them have little or no understanding of the virus or how things could have gone a lot worse for Ireland. They seem to think that just because the hospitals weren't overrun, the lockdown was an over-reaction and dictatorial. When it was those steps we took in lockdown preventing it.

The vast majority believe that the measures taken in locking down the country when they did and the measures they took were correct at the time.

Thats what we had to do, not that it was easy to do but the decision was very much out of our hands, there was no need for any thought in regards to it, we just had to do it.

The problem is opening up the country is a different story, theres no "only one way to do it" like there was with the lock down.

Opening up the country requires a bit of foresight, theres quite a bit of thought has to go into it and dare i say it, it takes a bit of guts to make some tough decisions and imho our approach to it has been quite cowardly.

We have often bleated on about leading the world when it comes to things like the plastic bag ban and in particular the smoking ban yet when it comes to the biggest issue of our lifetime our approach has been to cower away continuing to put the fear of god into the populace and hope every other country makes the hard decisions for us.

AdamD

AdamD wrote: »

Because that is literally what the stats are telling us. Some anecdotal stories doesn't prove otherwise.

The median age of confirmed cases is 48. That's what the actual stats say. But downplay that all you would like. 13% of all admissions to ICU were under the age of 44.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

The median age of confirmed cases is 48. That's what the actual stats say. But downplay that all you would like.

Median age of people catching it, not having serious adverse effects.

Living Off The Splash

We are getting about 200 new cases every day. Up and down. Despite many people in lockdown

Many of these are coming from nursing homes, health care workers etc.

However a large percentage are community transmissions.

Do we know where and how people are picking up the virus...….supermarkets, out and about, take out foods/Coffees, public transport, newspapers, post/parcels?

I am sure that those doing the "tracing" are asking relevant questions in order to start the tracing contacts...surely there must be some sort of idea now as to where people are picking it up.

LiquidZeb

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The median age of confirmed cases is 48. That's what the actual stats say. But downplay that all you would like.

He's not disputing confirmed cases he's disputing the number of people below 50 who suffer from severe cases of covid. Considering the amount of egg you got on your face with Kawasaki disease a couple of days ago I'd suggest maybe taking the time to read posts.

yosemitesam1

Deleted User wrote: »

The median age of confirmed cases is 48. That's what the actual stats say. But downplay that all you would like. 13% of all admissions to ICU were under the age of 44.

The real hospitalisation rate is less than 2%, I think the majority of people could live with that. Flu is circa 1% hospitalisation

LiquidZeb

LiquidZeb wrote: »

He's not disputing confirmed cases he's disputing the number of people below 50 who suffer from severe cases of covid. Considering the amount of egg you got on your face with Kawasaki disease a couple of days ago I'd suggest maybe taking the time to read posts.

I wasn't wrong with Kawasaki's. It is certainly under-reported as it mainly effects the cardiovascular system (which it can do asymptomatically) and children coming in with COVID-19 symptoms are usually under respiratory.

LiquidZeb

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I wasn't wrong with Kawasaki's. It is certainly under-reported as it mainly effects the cardiovascular system (which it can do asymptomatically) and children coming in with COVID-19 symptoms are usually under respiratory.

You were wrong. One of the Google scholar links you sent said that it had a rate of 0.011-0.33% chance of occuring in infected children. Also the British Kawasaki foundation have said they've noticed a decrease in cases so far this year.