Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

petes

Retro. wrote: »

Too much free time now and 350 to spend

Not really how addiction works. But I do get that some people will be abusing whatever takes their fancy moreso now and a few might have an issue on the other end.

Retro.

petes wrote: »

Not really how addiction works. But I do get that some people will be abusing whatever takes their fancy moreso now and a few might have an issue on the other end.

Addiction works in different ways, some need to be employed to keep away from it

jibber5000

faceman wrote: »

Isnt the rule attack the post not the poster?

The OP's tone aside, it is a valid concern being raised by many in society. You'd have to have your head in the sand to think that the economic toll coupled with the existing mental strain won't have a potentially huge and long lasting impact on Irish society. That isn't to say that the lockdown was unnecessary, but it is recognising that there is a point where economic and political decision making supercededs medical advice

I was chatting to a GP friend yesterday. He said his practice has been, forgive the pun, dead for the lockdown. He said that there will be a 2nd wave but it won't be Coronavirus, it will be all the illness and sicknesses people have put off. He also was critical of the stopping of some cancer testing in the country.

The economic damage of the crisis is going to be the worst we have seen since the Depression. Some industries can never start to recover until a treatment or vaccine is available. Leo is telling us some people will have to resell etc. These aren't just flick of the switch asks.

The challenge with all this is twofold.

1. It's near impossible to have a rational conversation about this. When we try, you either here the 'whats more important your job or someone dying' viewpoint or that 'open the lockdown immediately'. Both are extreme views and dont help the discussion.

2. The government is constantly moving the goalposts. The goal has been to flatten the curve, get the r0 rate below 1. We are now at 0.4, daily cases have been reduced to very low levels, there was no surge, other countries are starting to relax measures yet we are introducing more measures like the new quarantine for travellers. This is creating frustration as it further aggravates the uncertainty. Couple it with condescending comments from ministers like "this is not the time to be dickieing up the curtains" and you are antagonising an already fatigued, mostly compliant society.

It feels to many that we need more input than just Holohan. Political and economic input on decision making, beyond that of Holohan seems a rationale consideration

Purely anecdotal but where I work the numbers being admitted with non Covid complaints has gone through the roof the last two weeks.

Most people, quite reasonably, would not come in when the disease was more rampant than it is now.

CruelSummer

Not sure if many of you can see this article as it’s behind a paywall, I just read it.

https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/rte-dives-in-to-pull-clip-as-viewer-complains-about-reporters-plunge-39229471.html

Paul O’Flynn dived into the water at the 40 foot during the week after his clip on the news reporting on the reopening of the area with restrictions. RTE had to pull the clip as....

“the clip was quickly pulled when a beady-eyed viewer rang the station to say it was in breach of "health and safety".

Galwayguy35

RobitTV wrote: »

George Lee wins the prize for virtue signaller of the day

https://twitter.com/GeorgeLeeRTE/status/1264168907809660928

The virus has been a godsend for George, its making him seem relevant now that he gets to be on the news every day.

jibber5000

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

There wouldn't be, you're talking pennies there. This is many times greater.
If the figure Harris was throwing out of 3,500 lives saved by lockdown is true, at a cost of €30-50 billion. That's a huge amount of money to add maybe 5 years to those lives. While at the same time families with young children can be forced to fundraise for the cost of life changing treatment that the hse won't fund.

Put simply, Harris's number of 3,500 lives saved is complete rubbish.

Around 60% of those that have died here have been nursing home residents. How can he make a model into the future when so many that have already died, did so in a particular environment?

When the residents in that environment are fully protected, the numbers that will die in nursing homes will obviously plummet. The model that Harris is using cannot account for that.

Hego Damask

average_runner wrote: »

There is a vaccine for the flu though. So the option is there. It's not the flu that kills you it's what it develops into.

Once we have a vaccine for this it be treated like the flu

Yes and that could be 10 years as someone said - or never, so what perpetual lockdown crap ?

Retro.

jibber5000 wrote: »

Put simply, Harris's number of 3,500 lives saved is complete rubbish.

Around 60% of those that have died here have been nursing home residents. How can he make a model into the future when so many that have already died, did so in a particular environment?

When the residents in that environment are fully protected, the numbers that will die in nursing homes will obviously plummet. The model that Harris is using cannot account for that.

The government didn't save that many lives either

There should have been a plan for the nursing homes

Ginger n Lemon

Not an article youd want to wake up and read but

"Debt ratings firm DBRS Morningstar has moved its outlook on Bank of Ireland, AIB and Permanent TSB to “negative” as they grapple with the spectres of rising bad loans and decreased lending and other business due to the coronavirus crisis.

“The rating actions reflect an increasingly challenging operating environment in Ireland due to the economic shutdown and market disruption caused by the coronavirus disease pandemic, which is adding pressure to the banks’ profitability, asset quality and capital,” DBRS said as it became the latest ratings firm to take a more cautious view of the sector."

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/dbrs-flips-outlook-on-irish-banks-to-negative-amid-covid-19-crisis-1.4259612?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Ffinancial-services%2Fdbrs-flips-outlook-on-irish-banks-to-negative-amid-covid-19-crisis-1.4259612

Seriously open the country, move phase 4 & 5 to phase 3 and do a salvage job. As is we are on course for a bank bailout...

petes

Retro. wrote: »

Addiction works in different ways, some need to be employed to keep away from it

Way off topic (apart from the increased usage during restrictions) so I'll leave this as my last comment on the subject. Employment helps, devil makes work for idle hands and all that.

Employment alone will not save an addict. Trust me, I know from experience

MrDavid1976

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Not an article youd want to wake up and read but

"Debt ratings firm DBRS Morningstar has moved its outlook on Bank of Ireland, AIB and Permanent TSB to “negative” as they grapple with the spectres of rising bad loans and decreased lending and other business due to the coronavirus crisis.

“The rating actions reflect an increasingly challenging operating environment in Ireland due to the economic shutdown and market disruption caused by the coronavirus disease pandemic, which is adding pressure to the banks’ profitability, asset quality and capital,” DBRS said as it became the latest ratings firm to take a more cautious view of the sector."

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/dbrs-flips-outlook-on-irish-banks-to-negative-amid-covid-19-crisis-1.4259612?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fbusiness%2Ffinancial-services%2Fdbrs-flips-outlook-on-irish-banks-to-negative-amid-covid-19-crisis-1.4259612

Seriously open the country, move phase 4 & 5 to phase 3 and do a salvage job. As is we are on course for a bank bailout...

As an economic doom and gloomer this is not a surprise.

Agree that we need to accelerate the opening up.

Retro.

petes wrote: »

Way off topic (apart from the increased usage during restrictions) so I'll leave this as my last comment on the subject. Employment helps, devil makes work for idle hands and all that.

Employment alone will not save an addict. Trust me, I know from experience

It depends, 350 and nothing to do is a recipe for disaster for some

Ginger n Lemon

Good news coming out of Spain, also for football fans

"SPAIN TO WELCOME TOURISTS IN JULY

In a televised announcement, Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez encouraged Spaniards to start planning their summer vacations and said the country will start welcoming foreign tourists in July.

“I’m announcing to you that there will be a tourist season this year and I invite all tourist establishments to start to prepare from today to restart their activity in a few days from now.”

“We will guarantee that tourists will not run any risks and they will not bring us any risks,” he said.

The premier also announced that Spain’s top football league, La Liga, will be able to resume games on June 8

yosemitesam1

jibber5000 wrote: »

Put simply, Harris's number of 3,500 lives saved is complete rubbish.

Around 60% of those that have died here have been nursing home residents. How can he make a model into the future when so many that have already died, did so in a particular environment?

When the residents in that environment are fully protected, the numbers that will die in nursing homes will obviously plummet. The model that Harris is using cannot account for that.

Don't doubt Harris's number is not accurate. Just using it purely to compare against total bill for all this. Even if it was 10 times higher, it's still massive money per person that wouldn't have ever been entertained before this

MrDavid1976

I have asked the question a few times on here in respect to Covid-19 and the supermarket staff who we will recall have been working all the way through this (and in March there were no controls with a few days like Christmas Eve).

Two supermarket chains have indicated that there was not a spike in cases.

This is super positive and supports the view that more outlets can and should be allowed to open up straight away. At least give them the chance to survive.

average_runner

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Good news coming out of Spain, also for football fans

"SPAIN TO WELCOME TOURISTS IN JULY

In a televised announcement, Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez encouraged Spaniards to start planning their summer vacations and said the country will start welcoming foreign tourists in July.

“I’m announcing to you that there will be a tourist season this year and I invite all tourist establishments to start to prepare from today to restart their activity in a few days from now.”

“We will guarantee that tourists will not run any risks and they will not bring us any risks,” he said.

The premier also announced that Spain’s top football league, La Liga, will be able to resume games on June 8

Not sure how they will do the social distancing on the campsites with the kids club and swimming pool. Most campsites seem to open to residents only on Spain and France

Ginger n Lemon

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

I have asked the question a few times on here in respect to Covid-19 and the supermarket staff who we will recall have been working all the way through this (and in March there were no controls with a few days like Christmas Eve).

Two supermarket chains have indicated that there was not a spike in cases.

This is super positive and supports the view that more outlets can and should be allowed to open up straight away. At least give them the chance to survive.

This is a real eye opener. 10 staff out of 4000 infected in Aldi. Infected. Not a single person died.

So we have huge supermarket stores opened for the last 3 months, employing 20,000 + , no deaths, 20 - 30 infections.

We have over 62% of deaths occurring in nursing homes only.
92% of total deaths are over 65 years of age.

As one poster said here we need to justify another day of staying in lockdown rather than justify lifting it...

LiquidZeb

minikin wrote: »

What’s the percentage of those who die who have an underlying condition? Perhaps you don’t but I consider them to still be people too.

Did we become a third world country in 2008? No, because we had access to funds from the IMF, the EU among others... you’re acting like the same won’t happen again.

Ah yeah because the days of the IMF were such jolly times we need to relive it. Of course mass unemployment with whole sectors decimated along with jumbo national debt will have no consequences at all.

LiquidZeb

kaymin wrote: »

Tell that to the people that will die from cancer, heart disease etc that wouldn't otherwise die but for the lockdown

Yeah but if they die of cancer or heart disease then they don't die of Coronavirus so the day is saved. Sure doesn't cancer know there's a lockdown so it'll take a break for 3 months?

silverharp

funny that supermarkets are ok but restaurants not?

lord quackinton

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

This is a real eye opener. 10 staff out of 4000 infected in Aldi. Infected. Not a single person died.

So we have huge supermarket stores opened for the last 3 months, employing 20,000 + , no deaths, 20 - 30 infections.

We have over 62% of deaths occurring in nursing homes only.
92% of total deaths are over 65 years of age.

As one poster said here we need to justify another day of staying in lockdown rather than justify lifting it...

very good post
from the start i and others on here have demanded that when discussing deaths the hse should release detailed exact info regards sex, age, profession, habitation. everything bar the name
i and others suggested the reason this info was not coming was because of what you posted above. this virus is only a danger to a tiny minority of people but because the hse and our health system and our nursing homes are not fit for purpose they had to shut it all down.
our politicians and hse management have destroyed our economy and social system to ensure that the crap job they are doing in running our health system is not put under the spotlight.

simple logic and facts like in your post will make the pro lockdown position indefensible, keep it up.

RGARDINR

average_runner wrote: »

Not sure how they will do the social distancing on the campsites with the kids club and swimming pool. Most campsites seem to open to residents only on Spain and France

Plus what happens if you go and you return to Ireland and told to self isolate for two weeks. If working from home grand as you can then still work from home for two weeks but if you are back working in a job that you are not working from home will your employer be able to say well you are going abroad for two weeks now and when you come home you can't work as you will be self isolating for another 2 weeks, that's 4 weeks you are missing of work you don't have the leave for that. Just wondering now will employers be able to say this as a WK holiday if self isolating when comes back will be 3 weeks and 2 week holiday be 4 including self isolating.

FintanMcluskey

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Yeah but if they die of cancer or heart disease then they don't die of Coronavirus so the day is saved.

This is the infuriating tripe that is twisted in the media.

"save lives" we can't stop death Covid or not.

Flattening the curve changed to save lives somewhere along the way. Death is a fate that happens to 100 citizens in Ireland everyday, that will continue regardless of barbers and schools shut

Galwayguy35

Redgirl82 wrote: »

So what economics training have you got?

Dan O Brien says the same thing as him.

An Economist.

Is his opinion good enough for you?

MrDavid1976

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Ah yeah because the days of the IMF were such jolly times we need to relive it. Of course mass unemployment with whole sectors decimated along with jumbo national debt will have no consequences at all.

We had scope to add the debt then and interest rates came down sharply but that scope is not there today.

We will have to borrow and we will need to provide stimulus through borrowing, but every day the economy is shut down unnecessarily and out of step with our EU partners will make the recovery even more difficult.

mean gene

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

I have asked the question a few times on here in respect to Covid-19 and the supermarket staff who we will recall have been working all the way through this (and in March there were no controls with a few days like Christmas Eve).

Two supermarket chains have indicated that there was not a spike in cases.

This is super positive and supports the view that more outlets can and should be allowed to open up straight away. At least give them the chance to survive.

I also noticed that not one member of staff wear masks where I shop aldi tesco dunnes etc so how do government expect people shopping to wear them and they be only in there for abt 10 minutes compared to staff

MrDavid1976

mean gene wrote: »

I also noticed that not one member of staff wear masks where I shop aldi tesco dunnes etc so how do government expect people shopping to wear them and they be only in there for abt 10 minutes compared to staff

If a mask is the price for opening up especially on public transport then I am very happy to do that.

Micky 32

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

I have asked the question a few times on here in respect to Covid-19 and the supermarket staff who we will recall have been working all the way through this (and in March there were no controls with a few days like Christmas Eve).

Two supermarket chains have indicated that there was not a spike in cases.

This is super positive and supports the view that more outlets can and should be allowed to open up straight away. At least give them the chance to survive.

My partner has been working in a small very busy shop throughout this. She or none of the staff have contracted the virus to date.

Stormyteacup

lord quackinton wrote: »

very good post
from the start i and others on here have demanded that when discussing deaths the hse should release detailed exact info regards sex, age, profession, habitation. everything bar the name
i and others suggested the reason this info was not coming was because of what you posted above. this virus is only a danger to a tiny minority of people but because the hse and our health system and our nursing homes are not fit for purpose they had to shut it all down.
our politicians and hse management have destroyed our economy and social system to ensure that the crap job they are doing in running our health system is not put under the spotlight.

simple logic and facts like in your post will make the pro lockdown position indefensible, keep it up.

Yes and what do you reckon would be the output from the modelling systems they are using to calculate our R0 if they put in the data broken down by category instead of lumping all cases into it.

Would very much like to see the results separate to all care home infections. Get a clearer picture for transmission in the general population.

KiKi III

mean gene wrote: »

I also noticed that not one member of staff wear masks where I shop aldi tesco dunnes etc so how do government expect people shopping to wear them and they be only in there for abt 10 minutes compared to staff

It’s a lot easier to wear a mask for ten minutes than for eight hours.