Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

MrDavid1976

Neddyusa wrote: »

How many staff were actually tested?..
No testing = no cases.

There's no reason to assume infection rates are any lower in supermarkets than any other busy workplace with a high footfall.
Look the meat factories where all staff were tested and infection rates were up to 50% despite no public footfall through the doors.
Tesco or Aldi would be striving to avoid any mass testing of staff for fear of the headlines it would create.
Plenty here are happy to swallow the multiples "good news story" though.

If the virus is as bad as people claim it is then an outbreak in the supermarkets could not have been kept under wraps. Not a chance. Saying otherwise is disingenuous.

Ginger n Lemon

Neddyusa wrote: »

How many staff were actually tested?..
No testing = no cases.

There's no reason to assume infection rates are any lower in supermarkets than any other busy workplace with a high footfall.
Look the meat factories where all staff were tested and infection rates were up to 50% despite no public footfall through the doors.
Tesco or Aldi would be striving to avoid any mass testing of staff for fear of the headlines it would create.
Plenty here are happy to swallow the multiples "good news story" though.

Sure who could they test if most people are asymptomatic and dont feel a thing?

more importantly, testing is subjective, out of 20,000+ not a single covid death. That is factual. It doesnt matter if you test 20,000 or test 1 person, not 1 person died, and we can all agree that if Aldi, tesco or lidl staff falling ill with covid and going to ICU etc overwhelming our healthcare were an issue it would've been reported. by RTE. Every 20 minutes. Of every day. + Brazil mass graves, their usual "news update"

Clonmel1000

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

To be honest, I and most people I know would be absolutely fine with the schedule if they would just Lift the travel limit. I want to do socially distanced visiting with my family but all are too far away and it’s incredibly hard. I couldn’t give a flying f about the pubs or restaurants or any of that stuff

Do you not care about the jobs and people’s livelihoods working there?

pconn062

I went for a run today at a local beauty spot which recently reopened. Most people were trying to distance but it wasn't always possible, especially on the narrower paths and walkways. What was noticebale though was the amount of pontificating people scolding other grown adults for not staying two metres away. Really boiled my blood, and many others. Surely they should know that the recommended distance is 1m, but 2m if possible (which it's not always). And if you're so afraid of catching the virus why would you go to a very popular local spot with a full carpark on a Sunday morning and expect people to carve a 2m wide path just for you?!

But of course there people get off on scolding others, not realising that they being there is part of the problem too. Way overboard in my opinion, what exactly are you going to catch in the brief second it takes you to pass a small group of people? And why not wear a mask if you're so frightened?

bb1234567

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Sure who could they test if most people are asymptomatic and dont feel a thing?

more importantly, testing is subjective, out of 20,000+ not a single covid death. That is factual. It doesnt matter if you test 20,000 or test 1 person, not 1 person died, and we can all agree that if Aldi, tesco or lidl staff falling ill with covid and going to ICU etc overwhelming our healthcare were an issue it would've been reported. by RTE. Every 20 minutes. Of every day. + Brazil mass graves, their usual "news update"

The worry is not the young supermarket workers dying, but spreading it to the public. Though that doens't look to be a valid concern any longer given the results of the testing.

Ginger n Lemon

bb1234567 wrote: »

Would be interesting to see a general opinion poll of the public on their thoughts on the lockdown being lifted early

May not be representative of here given the situation appears much worse in the UK and also I can't find the poll results on any reputable news websites but nonetheless the results of this poll of 2000 Brits found that '17% of people think the conditions have been met to consider reopening schools, against 67% who say they have not been, and that they should stay closed.'

'Just 11% of people think the time is right to consider reopening restaurants, while 78% are against. Only 9% believe it would be correct to consider reopening pubs, while 81% are against; 7% say it would be right to allow mass gatherings at sports events or concerts to resume, with 84% against.'

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/02/fearful-britons-oppose-lifting-lockdown-schools-pubs-restaurants-opinium-poll

Just anecdotal, but from my experience, the majority of the public still do not strongly oppose the lockdown and are more fearful of a sped up lockdown causing a second wave than lifting it quickly for the sake of the economy. I don't think the views on this thread are representative of the public of Ireland in any way really, the views are a lot more extreme

Nobody doubts that with 200,000 people receiving more money from 350 eur a week covid payment than if they were actually working that they oppose lockdown. we know they do not. or indeed 300,000 people who were being paid similar 350 eur or 400 eur a week working and now on covid 350 a week.

Its just going to be a huge pity when majority of these 200,000 or indeed 300,000 will be unemployed for 3 years or permanently + on 203 euros a week (assuming this isnt being cut, which it likely will this October). Then they will be very angry we had sucha long lockdown, unfortunately then they wont be able to change a thing as budget measures will already be announced.

And most posters in this thread realise that this will happen. And still feel that if lockdown is accelerated or lifted quicker, budget measures wont be as severe (which is true but only for the next 6 weeks, if we keep to the plan and are allowing barbers to open 21st of July then the extra 3 weeks to bring forward pubs from 10th of Aug wont do much esp given summer will be coming to an end by then)

Mic 1972

pconn062 wrote: »

I went for a run today at a local beauty spot which recently reopened. Most people were trying to distance but it wasn't always possible, especially on the narrower paths and walkways. What was noticebale though was the amount of pontificating people scolding other grown adults for not staying two metres away. Really boiled my blood, and many others. Surely they should know that the recommended distance is 1m, but 2m if possible (which it's not always). And if you're so afraid of catching the virus why would you go to a very popular local spot with a full carpark on a Sunday morning and expect people to carve a 2m wide path just for you?!

But of course there people get off on scolding others, not realising that they being there is part of the problem too. Way overboard in my opinion, what exactly are you going to catch in the brief second it takes you to pass a small group of people? And why not wear a mask if you're so frightened?

A good explanation as to why the Swedish model wouldn't work in Ireland

ForestFire

Neddyusa wrote: »

How many staff were actually tested?..
No testing = no cases.

There's no reason to assume infection rates are any lower in supermarkets than any other busy workplace with a high footfall.
Look the meat factories where all staff were tested and infection rates were up to 50% despite no public footfall through the doors.
Tesco or Aldi would be striving to avoid any mass testing of staff for fear of the headlines it would create.
Plenty here are happy to swallow the multiples "good news story" though.

If that's the case and you believe there is a high infection rate among supermarket staff, then its even more of a reason to quickly remove the restrictions.... Especially for all citizens not deemed as high risk!

Keep the nursing homes in lock down, keep the elderly doing social distance or dedicated hours for them, but let the rest of us get on with it.... With minimal conditions, I. E. Distance and hand washing only.

Retro.

I didn't think you could get the virus just walking past people?

MrDavid1976

bb1234567 wrote: »

The worry is not the young supermarket workers dying, but spreading it to the public. Though that doens't look to be a valid concern any longer given the results of the testing.

Exactly - the numbers do not support that. There are counties in the country with no cases yet the supermarkets have been open throughout.

MrDavid1976

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/hse-chief-says-reduction-from-two-metres-would-create-significant-extra-capacity-1.4261154

Super clever by Paul Reid. Linking the 2 metre social distance requirement to patient safety. This will force the analysis of risk between normal heath needs v public health. If other issues arise in terms of the capacity of the health system, the CMO and Nphet will be in the firing line and not the HSE.

https://unherd.com/thepost/coming-up-epidemiologist-prof-johan-giesecke-shares-lessons-from-sweden/

Another interesting perspective.

RollieFingers

Mic 1972 wrote: »

A bitter post is not a sign of feeling good

Always find it funny that the first thing that needs to be done before these huge walks and cycles people are going on is to log onto Boards and broadcast it to everyone, and of course be sure to hop straight back on Boards to let people know as soon as you get home :pac:

Ginger n Lemon

Deleted User wrote: »

https://unherd.com/thepost/coming-up-epidemiologist-prof-johan-giesecke-shares-lessons-from-sweden/

Another interesting perspective.

Yes.

That one is brilliant

"The Imperial College paper was “not very good” and he has never seen an unpublished paper have so much policy impact"

RobitTV

Cabinet infighting has begun. Hopefully common sense will now prevail.

Mic 1972

RollieFingers wrote: »

Always find it funny that the first thing that needs to be done before these huge walks and cycles people are going on is to log onto Boards and broadcast it to everyone, and of course be sure to hop straight back on Boards to let people know as soon as you get home :pac:

yep ;-)

LiquidZeb

RobitTV wrote: »

Cabinet infighting has begun. Hopefully common sense will now prevail.

Who gives a **** about Glenda gilsons pregnancy?

MrDavid1976

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Who gives a **** about Glenda gilsons pregnancy?

I suppose she does. Maybe the readers of that paper do too - I am not one of those.

LiquidZeb

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

I suppose she does. Maybe the readers of that paper do too - I am not one of those.

I suppose the attention is like heroin to her.

briany

LiquidZeb wrote: »

I suppose the attention is like heroin to her.

No, the money she gets for the story is like heroin to her. Then again, it's like heroin to the rest of us, too.

vid36

What is the common sense approach. The vast majority of OECD countries have a larger distance than the WHO guidelines. Some such as Germany, Australia, Netherlands, Belgium and France have 1.5m.The USA has 1.8m.Others such as Spain, Switzerland, UK and ourselves have 2m.I think the hospitality industry would have a stronger argument if they made a case for 1.5m, but there is no way ,I can see the Irish government recommending 1m when countries such as Germany, France, Australia , USA and UK have a stricter approach.

Heckler

Went to see my isolating mother. Cocoon is a terrible word. Like fcking moths or something. Was outside the magic 5km. Ditches lined with the dead on my way back home.

bb1234567

pconn062 wrote: »

I went for a run today at a local beauty spot which recently reopened. Most people were trying to distance but it wasn't always possible, especially on the narrower paths and walkways. What was noticebale though was the amount of pontificating people scolding other grown adults for not staying two metres away. Really boiled my blood, and many others. Surely they should know that the recommended distance is 1m, but 2m if possible (which it's not always). And if you're so afraid of catching the virus why would you go to a very popular local spot with a full carpark on a Sunday morning and expect people to carve a 2m wide path just for you?!

But of course there people get off on scolding others, not realising that they being there is part of the problem too. Way overboard in my opinion, what exactly are you going to catch in the brief second it takes you to pass a small group of people? And why not wear a mask if you're so frightened?

Yeh what I learned during this pandemic is there are a lot of rude people who will just use any excuse to be allowed to jump down people's throats, and they know you can't say anything back because 'theyre in the right'. I really doubt they think there is much chance of catching it off somebody passing a metre a way from them for one second, and if they truly do then I feel sorry for them, must be an awfully stressful few months for them

RobitTV

57 new cases today
4 further deaths

Someone better tell Holohan to put the lockdown radius down to 1km now. This is unacceptable.

prunudo

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Who gives a **** about Glenda gilsons pregnancy?

I'm more worried about a green Tanaiste.

Ginger n Lemon

RobitTV wrote: »

57 new cases today
4 further deaths

Someone better tell Holohan to put the lockdown radius down to 1km now. This is unacceptable.

Woah. Great news

We ll be like Denmark soon with 0 covid deaths. Except for they've opened their entire country.

PS we've also had woodies, B&Q, and construction sites back up and running for a week now. So clearly that even when you lift restrictions cases do not increase. Hopefully this is the 1 confirmation govt were looking for before accelerating.

bloodless_coup

MrDavid1976 wrote: »

I suppose she does. Maybe the readers of that paper do too - I am not one of those.

Doesn't take long for someone to come along and tell the world what they do and do not read whenever a newspaper is mentioned.

alta stare

RollieFingers wrote: »

Always find it funny that the first thing that needs to be done before these huge walks and cycles people are going on is to log onto Boards and broadcast it to everyone, and of course be sure to hop straight back on Boards to let people know as soon as you get home :pac:

Yep that was certainly my goal today. A bit like people like you coming on here to complain about it.

Donald Trump

bb1234567 wrote: »

Yeh what I learned during this pandemic is there are a lot of rude people who will just use any excuse to be allowed to jump down people's throats, and they know you can't say anything back because 'theyre in the right'. I really doubt they think there is much chance of catching it off somebody passing a metre a way from them for one second, and if they truly do then I feel sorry for them, must be an awfully stressful few months for them

Unfortunately there will always be the ones that think they are as special as Dominic Cummings so that the rules don't really apply to them.


If you are out and about, have a few manners and respect and keep back the recommended distance and don't act like an entitled arsehole on a tantrum. It's not that difficult.

Lyle

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Woah. Great news

We ll be like Denmark soon with 0 covid deaths. Except for they've opened their entire country.

PS we've also had woodies, B&Q, and construction sites back up and running for a week now. So clearly that even when you lift restrictions cases do not increase. Hopefully this is the 1 confirmation govt were looking for before accelerating.

Unfortunately people usually aren't symptomatic until 5 - 7 days post contact with the infection (97% of people are symptomatic by day 11) so while it's good that we didn't hold in triple digits over the weekend, we're still probably a few days off seeing where we're at with the Phase 1 openings. Always a bit of a drop on numbers over a weekend anyway, but it's really later on next week, maybe the number from Tuesday to Friday, for us to start seeing whatever impact or change to the daily tally that the re-openings have caused.
Likelihood is the numbers will go up to triple digits daily again, but the important thing is that they don't jump too much, too quickly. We're unlikely to see steadily decreasing numbers as we re-open, the best thing is to see it stay steady or increase by only small amounts, keeping the R0 at a manageable level.

I doubt as well we're gonna see acceleration in terms of timeline, the three week gap between Phases is something I think they're gonna hold tough on, but they might consider jumping some small things from Phase 4 up to Phase 3, or Phase 3 up into Phase 2 (less likely imo) if we can keep the transmission tightly locked down. Hopefully we also get some criteria for what NPHET are looking at in regards to where the goalposts are to keep us advancing through the Phases. So far we don't really have a working metric, I think it'd be great for people mentally to have a goal point in mind where we know we're gonna be able to progress on schedule.