Relaxation of Restrictions, Part III - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

seamus

risteard7 wrote: »

This thing of queuing outside shops doesn't make sense to me. Not everybody is 2 metres apart. When you go into the shop itself the aisles have only 1 or 2 people on them.

You have to be at least 15 mins in close contact with an infected person, so you are more likely to get it standing in a long queue with others?

Shops can't really police what people do when they stand in a queue outside.

One would hope that people queuing would have the sense to maintain distance and ask anyone who isn't, to stand back.

If someone can't follow a simple instruction to queue at a distance, what hope is there that they would keep their distance inside a busy shop? At least if the shop is quiet, then the damage that the mouth breathers can do is limited.

Ginger n Lemon

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I dont dictate by any means, a friendly advice given a lot of OT conversations yesterday.

Below is from WHO. I dont know why but given population has grew, and Brazil government not really being on top of their game, I dont see how deaths per year would decrease since.

"Road safety in Brazil. The Global status report on road safety 2013 estimates that more than 43 800 people are killed in road traffic crashes in Brazil every year. Road traffic crashes are a leading cause of death, injury and hospitalization, resulting in high economic and social costs."

43,800 / 12 x 5 = more deaths than COVID.

Data I've seen suggests that there was only 27000 road deaths in 2017 which is more recent.

LiquidZeb

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Actually 16,000 have died from covid in Brazil so he's right by a good 11,000.

27000 over 12 months Vs 16000 over 5 months. Also, traffic will be down this year in Brazil so presumably road traffic accidents will be too. Also, the covid figure is dynamic, I was just correcting the poster misunderstanding (s)!

polesheep

Deleted User wrote: »

And lets not forget that public sector taxes are going towards supporting people who aren't working. 350 euro should mean nobody starves in Ireland due to been out of work.

Public sector pay comes from the public purse, the same as the €350.

Ficheall

CBear1993 wrote: »

Enough of this horsesh*t.

More people die of cigarettes and other things each year than this.

Some US data for March/April in a (hopefully) easy-to-understand animation.
https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/1712761/

polesheep

polesheep wrote: »

Public sector pay comes from the public purse, the same as the €350.

Still get taxed. Do people on the 350 euro a week get taxed on that? I don't actually know. I actually make quite substantial cost savings for the HSE that multiples of my salary.

Also get taxed on consultancy work I do for pharmaceutical companies.

wakka12

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Actually 16,000 have died from covid in Brazil so he's right by a good 11,000.

Well, there are thousands of unreported deaths in Brazil.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/30/brazil-manaus-coronavirus-mass-graves
The situation is really really bad there, in a few weeks multiples of the annual car crash fatalities will have died from COVID in brazil. But it still is not comparable or applicable to irish circumstances

Brazil will be the worst affected nation on earth, it is incredibly densely populated with huge poverty levels ,almost no lockdown. a large elderly population for a developing country and many of native descent who appear to have even less immunity than most people

polesheep

Deleted User wrote: »

Still get taxed. Do people on the 350 euro a week get taxed on that? I don't actually know. I actually make quite substantial cost savings for the HSE that multiples of my salary.

Also get taxed on consultancy work I do for pharmaceutical companies.

The point is the tax you pay is just some of the money that the state paid to you from the public purse coming back. It does not aid the state in paying the €350 or any other payment it has to make during the lockdown. That's why it is essential to get business up and running again. BTW I am very happy to pay for public services, that is not the issue.

polesheep

Deleted User wrote: »

Still get taxed. Do people on the 350 euro a week get taxed on that? I don't actually know. I actually make quite substantial cost savings for the HSE that multiples of my salary.

Also get taxed on consultancy work I do for pharmaceutical companies.

If you were to donate your cape to mask manufacturers it would solve any shortage.

Ginger n Lemon

Deleted User wrote: »

Data I've seen suggests that there was only 27000 road deaths in 2017 which is more recent.

Data you've seen? Suggests?

Is this what you heard in your hospital again?

On a more relevant note

"Almost a quarter of businesses have stopped trading and a third have laid off staff - CSO

“Two of every three responding enterprises in the construction sector had ceased trading either temporarily or permanently as of 3 May 2020,” the CSO said, adding that 70pc of firms in the accommodation and food sector were closed.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/almost-a-quarter-of-businesses-have-stopped-trading-and-a-third-have-laid-off-staff-cso-39213290.html

We clearly need to bring forward phase 5 and 4 into June.

uli84

The doom and gloom coming from the politicians and the media is shocking, they should seriously be sent to the worst affected countries to see what ‘bad’ really is.

polesheep

polesheep wrote: »

If you were to donate your cape to mask manufacturers it would solve any shortage.

So begrudging, So I reduce HSE expenditure and I get vilified.

My tax is the same as your tax. It all goes back to the exchequer, therefore I am contributing.

Hurrache

uli84 wrote: »

The doom and gloom coming from the politicians and the media is shocking, they should seriously be sent to the worst affected countries to see what it really is.

A perfect example of the sure why did we bother with all these restrictions when we're not that badly affected by it argument, an argument which always puts on display the person's making it abject failure of logic and cause and affect.

rubadub

Conte.. wrote: »

Still some idiots afraid to pass me on the footpath

why do you consider them idiots? What do you think they are afraid of? the virus or upsetting you?

You could have some conspiracy theory nutjob who thinks there is no virus at all, and that nutjob would probably still give people a wide berth out of respect for them.

As you call them idiots I take it you do NOT give people any more room than normal on footpaths? are you seriously walking past old grannies as closely as you would have before all this? you are likely terrifying them if you do.

polesheep

Deleted User wrote: »

So begrudging, So I reduce HSE expenditure and I get vilified.

My tax is the same as your tax. It all goes back to the exchequer, therefore I am contributing.

We all pay tax. The point is that we have to get non-public service jobs up and running again in order to get more money into the public purse so that we can continue to pay for public services and continue to pay those who cannot go back to work.

robfowler78

wakka12 wrote: »

Yes but that is in a very densely populated country, I would imagine many of the people living in slums are also in poorer health than most Irish people. Ireland will probably turn out like Sweden ; deaths increasing a lot but not to as unmanageable levels as what Brazil and New York and other densely populated areas experienced

Is it possible that we are further along then Brazil in the life cycle of this virus?.I think the real test will be in the poorer countries. If they have falling numbers in a few weeks without good lockdown or medical services maybe just maybe this virus is weakening by its self. Granted the human cost is still way to high but it will give an idea of second waves etc. I don't know.

polesheep

polesheep wrote: »

We all pay tax. The point is that we have to get non-public service jobs up and running again in order to get more money into the public purse so that we can continue to pay for public services and continue to pay those who cannot go back to work.

In a safe manner. I agree.

nickkinneg

I would reckon this is the relaxation before the next lockdown remember Spanish flu came in 3 waves the last 2 more deadly than the 1st. Sorry to play devils advocate. The 2nd wave affected more young people and was a deadlier strain. The 3rd more deadly than the 1st but not as deadly as the second - effecting more of the Australia region. Late autumn/winter is when it will renew its onslaught. Just my opinion

growleaves

nickkinneg wrote: »

I would reckon this is the relaxation before the next lockdown remember Spanish flu came in 3 waves the last 2 more deadly than the 1st. Sorry to play devils advocate. The 2nd wave affected more young people and was a deadlier strain. The 3rd more deadly than the 1st but not as deadly as the second - effecting more of the Australia region. Late autumn/winter is when it will renew its onslaught. Just my opinion

Apology not accepted.

There have been many pandemics during the 20th century and down through the centuries. There is no particular reason to be believe the worst ones are relevant to our situation here and now.

wakka12

nickkinneg wrote: »

I would reckon this is the relaxation before the next lockdown remember Spanish flu came in 3 waves the last 2 more deadly than the 1st. Sorry to play devils advocate. The 2nd wave affected more young people and was a deadlier strain. The 3rd more deadly than the 1st but not as deadly as the second - effecting more of the Australia region. Late autumn/winter is when it will renew its onslaught. Just my opinion

For every worst case scenario there is a best case scenario. I'm sure there has also been examples of pandemics where the second wave was less deadly than the first. Is there any reason to believe the situation will evolve more like the former than the latter? Nobody knows

Biscuitus

Playground in the centre of my town full of parents and children yesterday.

RugbyLad11

Conte.. wrote: »

Very few masks worn at the supermearket today

Still some idiots afraid to pass me on the footpath

What is with this? I was wearing a mask in the city a few days ago and most people were looking at me like I have 2 heads. It's usually the middle aged women and older people who do it, young people seem to either wear a mask themselves or not look twice at someone wearing one.

average_runner

Biscuitus wrote: »

Playground in the centre of my town full of parents and children yesterday.

Hopefully u reported it

Mic 1972

wakka12 wrote: »

For every worst case scenario there is a best case scenario. I'm sure there has also been examples of pandemics where the second wave was less deadly than the first. Is there any reason to believe the situation will evolve more like the former than the latter? Nobody knows

if the antibodies are strong and lasting any new wave will be less devastating than this one. The Spanish flue, being a flue, didn't provide good antibodies and people could catch it multiple times

murpho999

Biscuitus wrote: »

Playground in the centre of my town full of parents and children yesterday.

That's hardly shocking is it?

Biscuitus

murpho999 wrote: »

That's hardly shocking is it?

Nope just chiming in to point out how people will relax restrictions themselves regardless of the governments plan. Every weekend it's been a little more.

Benimar

murpho999 wrote: »

That's hardly shocking is it?

Given they aren't supposed to open until June 29th, I'd say it is, yes.

Elmer Blooker

Mic 1972 wrote: »

if the antibodies are strong and lasting any new wave will be less devastating than this one. The Spanish flue, being a flue, didn't provide good antibodies and people could catch it multiple times

Where are you getting this? It is now understood that those who got 'Spanish flu' in the first wave were the lucky ones as they had immunity against the second deadlier wave.

The fact that most of those who recovered from first-wave infections had become immune showed that it must have been the same strain of flu.

stephenjmcd

nickkinneg wrote: »

I would reckon this is the relaxation before the next lockdown remember Spanish flu came in 3 waves the last 2 more deadly than the 1st. Sorry to play devils advocate. The 2nd wave affected more young people and was a deadlier strain. The 3rd more deadly than the 1st but not as deadly as the second - effecting more of the Australia region. Late autumn/winter is when it will renew its onslaught. Just my opinion

Sorry but it's been said numerous times you simply can't compare the spanish flu to this now. There is so much different now than then. There may well be a second wave or there might not be, there hasn't been in other countries at this moment.

risteard7

risteard7 wrote: »

This thing of queuing outside shops doesn't make sense to me. Not everybody is 2 metres apart. When you go into the shop itself the aisles have only 1 or 2 people on them.

You have to be at least 15 mins in close contact with an infected person, so you are more likely to get it standing in a long queue with others?

Most shops I have seen have marked out 2 meters on the ground