Farage highlighting illegal migration chaos

CJhaughey

kenmm wrote: »

Not legally at the moment.

Also - wonder what would happen is they started heading North West :pac:?

The small trip across the English Channel is not the same as crossing the Celtic Sea, not by a long shot.

kenmm

CJhaughey wrote: »

The small trip across the English Channel is not the same as crossing the Celtic Sea, not by a long shot.

Seriously, I know that - the channel is very small.

But I think someone suitably motivated could make it in summer weather. Look out, we are about to be over run by foreign nationals seeking free housing and benefits.. arrghh.

Bonniedog

kenmm wrote: »

Seriously, I know that - the channel is very small.

But I think someone suitably motivated could make it in summer weather. Look out, we are about to be over run by foreign nationals seeking free housing and benefits.. arrghh.

You mightn't think it was so amusing if you were living in Balbriggan.

Faugheen

Eric Cartman wrote: »

theres f*ck all children actually coming with them. Yet again I said its harsh , but the boats need to be stopped. What are the British to do to prevent any more of these migrants entering the country. Id rather effective and harsh than ineffective and nice.

#alllivesmatter when it suits you, it seems.

Eric Cartman

Faugheen wrote: »

#alllivesmatter when it suits you, it seems.

I've never been on that bandwagon.

this is very much #EuropeanLivesMatterMoreThanIllegalMigrantsWithDangerousBeliefs

biko

I think the defenders of these boats can be categorised.
Some are for open borders. Let people move where they please.
Some think UK have themselves to blame for colonisation. "Follow you home" arguments.
Some think a refugee have the right to travel through several peaceful countries in the EU to the French coast, and there buy an very expensive raft and paddle out to the British Isles.


Am I missing a category?

Wanderer78

kenmm wrote: »

Seriously, I know that - the channel is very small.

But I think someone suitably motivated could make it in summer weather. Look out, we are about to be over run by foreign nationals seeking free housing and benefits.. arrghh.

no we re not, our housing and other issues are largely to do with the failures of largely western economic and political ideologies, little or nothing to do with the scary foreigners

The Unbearables

Oh look boats full of men. Who'd have tunk it.

Eric Cartman

biko wrote: »

I think the defenders of these boats can be categorised.
Some are for open borders. Let people move where they please.
Some think UK have themselves to blame for colonisation. "Follow you home" arguments.
Some think a refugee have the right to travel through several peaceful countries in the EU to the French coast, and there buy an very expensive raft and paddle out to the British Isles.


Am I missing a category?

those whose livelihoods or political capitol is completely derived from opposing the views of conservative (and presumed white) men. It's not that they like muslim migrants (I mean come on , they fundamentally disagree with them on almost every issue) but because conservative men have issues with muslims then the virtuous position is automatically to defend them.

If the national front wanted to take dinghies to bring thousands of their members illegally to the UK these people would be screaming for boats with guns , but because the people on the boats aren't liked by conservatives they're very welcome for that reason alone.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

those whose livelihoods or political capitol is completely derived from opposing the views of conservative (and presumed white) men. It's not that they like muslim migrants (I mean come on , they fundamentally disagree with them on almost every issue) but because conservative men have issues with muslims then the virtuous position is automatically to defend them.

If the national front wanted to take dinghies to bring thousands of their members illegally to the UK these people would be screaming for boats with guns , but because the people on the boats aren't liked by conservatives they're very welcome for that reason alone.

Pretty sure nobody in their right mind would be advocating for shooting boats of unarmed civilians even if they're national front members. Do human rights go out the window if you're not an EU citizen? Doesn't sound like a very western value tbh, sounds pretty warped.

kenmm

Bonniedog wrote: »

You mightn't think it was so amusing if you were living in Balbriggan.

Don't tell me - Ballbriggan is the next "Birmingham"..?

Eric Cartman

Deleted User wrote: »

Pretty sure nobody in their right mind would be advocating for shooting boats of unarmed civilians even if they're national front members. Do human rights go out the window if you're not an EU citizen? Doesn't sound like a very western value tbh, sounds pretty warped.

in the countries and belief systems these people preach, human rights always came second to ideology, nothing new.

kenmm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

no we re not, our housing and other issues are largely to do with the failures of largely western economic and political ideologies, little or nothing to do with the scary foreigners

Nope - its all the tax dodging scum foreigners coming here to take our houses and jobs. This thread has changed my mind.

kenmm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

#EuropeanLivesMatterMoreThanIllegalMigrantsWithDangerousBeliefs

What exactly are these "Dangerous beliefs" - Who exactly are we talking about. If we are targeting one specific group of people, I want to be specific.

Wanderer78

kenmm wrote: »

Nope - its all the tax dodging scum foreigners coming here to take our houses and jobs. This thread has changed my mind.

no its not, its the parasitic and predatory nature of our western designed economic and financial systems, in which tax evasion and avoidance plays a critical role, largely by the more plutocratic elements of our societies, little or nothing to do with the scary foreigners

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

in the countries and belief systems these people preach, human rights always came second to ideology, nothing new.

And? You are happy to chuck out human rights on those grounds? You're also making big assumptions about the people on the boats. Your sort of logic makes it okay to abuse whatever human rights of people if they're from a country that has a poor track record of human rights.

Basically you yourself seem to subscribe to an ideology that isn't consistent with western values.

kenmm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

no its not, its the parasitic and predatory nature of our western designed economic and financial systems, in which tax evasion and avoidance plays a critical role, largely by the more plutocratic elements of our societies, little or nothing to do with the scary foreigners

Right - hold on a second - I am clearly taking the p!ss here - almost treating this entire thread with the contempt it deserves.


I gave up when we started comparing foreigners to another species, the entire debate lost all credibility at that point.

Wanderer78

kenmm wrote: »

Right - hold on a second - I am clearly taking the p!ss here - almost treating this entire thread with the contempt it deserves.


I gave up when we started comparing foreigners to another species, the entire debate lost all credibility at that point.

i may join you in this p1ss take

TomTomTim

Deleted User wrote: »

Basically you yourself seem to subscribe to an ideology that isn't consistent with western values.

When did an endless stream of mass immigration become a western value? Helping out people coming from countries that are in ruins from war, like Syria was, is one thing, taking in every Tom, Dick & Harry that arrives on our shores from Africa and is a completely different thing.

ohnonotgmail

TomTomTim wrote: »

When did an endless stream of mass immigration become a western value? Helping out people coming from countries that are in ruins from war, like Syria was, is one thing, taking in every Tom, Dick & Harry that arrives on our shores from Africa and is a completely different thing.

how is murdering people in boats a western value?

Eric Cartman

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

how is murdering people in boats a western value?

defending your borders from threats is perfectly compatible with western values. Been doing it for thousands of years.

TomTomTim

TomTomTim wrote: »

When did an endless stream of mass immigration become a western value? Helping out people coming from countries that are in ruins from war, like Syria was, is one thing, taking in every Tom, Dick & Harry that arrives on our shores from Africa and is a completely different thing.

Respecting human rights is a supposedly a western value, no? Calling for the massacre of civilians on the other hand is something I associate with corrupt regimes with poor human rights records.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

defending your borders from threats is perfectly compatible with western values. Been doing it for thousands of years.

It would be illegal under international law. Can't believe you're arguing for the right to kill civilians.

ohnonotgmail

Eric Cartman wrote: »

defending your borders from threats is perfectly compatible with western values. Been doing it for thousands of years.

murdering unarmed people is against every western value. dont try to dress it up as anything less than it is. you are promoting barbarism. in times past (and not that long ago) we hanged people for that.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

Respecting human rights is a supposedly a western value, no? Calling for the massacre of civilians on the other hand is something I associate with corrupt regimes with poor human rights records.



It would be illegal under international law. Can't believe you're arguing for the right to kill civilians.

I have no trouble believing they are arguing for the murder of unarmed civilians.

Eric Cartman

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I have no trouble believing they are arguing for the murder of unarmed civilians.

what policed border in the world can you just stroll over and expect not to get shot.

what would happen to me if I (unarmed) tried to cross between north and South Korea, between Russia and Ukraine, between almost any African, arab or South American countries, Palestine to Israel. Turkey to Greece, I would have a gun pointed at me and be told to turn back , if I proceeded I would be shot, I could still chance it but it would be a known risk .

Tokyo

Mod: Thread needs a cleanup and and a couple of posters need to be dealt with. Thread temporarily closed until mod tools are up and running and the offending posters can be nuked from the thread.

Tokyo

Thread reopened. I can't believe I have to make this an explicit instruction, but the next person who advocates the killing of immigrants will receive a permanent forum ban.


@Eric Cartman, @Bobblehats - don't post in the thread again.

RandomName2

Deleted User wrote: »

Do human rights go out the window if you're not an EU citizen?

You have talked a lot about human rights. But human rights are pretty generic concepts and aren't particularly detailed.. no genocide.. treat all humans as humans.. that sort of thing.

The only part of human rights that actively relates to the discussion at hand (or at least should relate to the discussion at hand) is the right to gain asylum when fleeing persecution.

But here's where the details (or lack of them in this case) become important. All people should be free to flee from persecution, but should they be free to flee to any country? What exactly is persecution? Is poverty a form of persecution?

If you are fleeing France, are you fleeing persecution? This is the scenario that the UK faces. Is France a country that one must flee for your life from? The UK says 'no' and quite honestly I find it hard to disagree with that assessment. More to the point, the people fleeing France would likely have already 'fled' Italy, and the majority are 'fleeing' based upon considerations relating to local language, local minorities, and average salary. This entire concept seems to make a mockery out of the asylum system.

Tell me how

Eric Cartman wrote: »

defending your borders from threats is perfectly compatible with western values. Been doing it for thousands of years.

And invading others don't forget. That's been a pretty strong western value since the day someone decided there was a border.

splashuum

Cartman made a very valid point about border controls of other countries.