Off Topic Thread 5.0

Neil3030

Not sure dying on any hill is going through Johnson's mind.

He has clearly decided Cummings is a sunk cost, and that he can reinvent himself by 2024.

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think you can compare support for May with the cult of personality behind the persona that is Boris. Additionally the timelines for the big decisions Boris has to make are much tighter than May had to deal with and the stakes much higher.

42 MP's have called for Cummings to resign, Boris has thrown the full support of the British government and cabinet behind him unequivocally. Any MP's that call for Cummings to resign at this point are simultaneously rebuking Boris.

The public has made it's mind up on it all, each day public opinion get's worse. This is all going in one direction and the best the Government can no do is to try and stop the rot.

I think you'll find the public will move on very quickly

Dave_The_Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

... and it appears the British public have whiffed it.

But there's absolutely nothing the British public can do about it, bar civil disobedience, mass protests or actual violence. None of which I can see them doing, given the current climate. They'll forget about this once the Covid-19 situation starts improving, probably before.

They had their chance to do something about it last year and royally f*cked it.

dregin

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

But there's absolutely nothing the British public can do about it, bar civil disobedience, mass protests or actual violence. None of which I can see them doing, given the current climate. They'll forget about this once the Covid-19 situation starts improving, probably before.

They had their chance to do something about it last year and royally f*cked it.

Cummings will be the stick with which Starmer absolutely beats the **** out of the tories in the next election, whether he stays or not.

troyzer

dregin wrote: »

Cummings will be the stick with which Starmer absolutely beats the **** out of the tories in the next election, whether he stays or not.

And Labour will still lose.

Buer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think you'll find the public will move on very quickly

The public will move on once the media coverage dies down. The media coverage will die down once the stories ability to garner clicks and sales levels off. I'd imagine that is already happening.

As with any story, it has a lifespan. It's going to go away fairly quickly. It's already well down the page on The Guardian website which is at the forefront of this. I don't see it anywhere on the BBC news page anymore.

Best case scenario (and highly unlikely), Cummings walks or is removed to quell the disruption within the Tory party. Everything else will continue as is.

bilston

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He's in an awful lot of trouble now. 42 Mp's have broken ranks and more will follow, polls tanking fast and he couldn't commit to any kind of lockdown enforcement because it would be at odds with his stance on Cummings. It's a genuine public health issue now because they are having to equivocate during a national crisis over their hypocritical stance on Cummings breach.

The bigger news is that based on his performance today, several more Tory MP's have turned on the Government so this is increasingly on Boris now and is rapidly turning into a vote of confidence.

According to Twitter it's 61 MPs calling for Cummings to resign or be sacked now.

Nevertheless that isn't the same as 61 Tory MPs voting against the govt. Johnson is safe.

bilston

Anyone who watched or heard Johnson's grilling yesterday may remember he was quizzed by a MP about whether he had seen evidence that Cummings hadn't broken rules. Johnson sort of spluttered around a bit while the MPndemanded a yes or no answer. Johnson eventually said words to the effect of "if it makes you happy I'll say yes". The MP then asked if he was going to publish or show it to the cabinet secretary. Johnson said no.

It wasn't very convincing and I wonder if Labour will push this.

I'm not saying he did or he didn't but MPs will not take kindly to being lied to by a PM.

Interested Observer

Deleted User wrote: »

There really seems to be something nefarious here and it appears the British public have whiffed it.

They whiffed it when they gave Boris and his unelected co-PM a massive majority. There's nothing they can do now. There are a very small number of people who can cause a change here and they are they Tory MPs.

Bazzo

A 4 man armed "hit squad" arrested in Clara. And they were brought in over a €70 drug debt. Mental.

Seem to have been a slew of drug busts over the last few weeks. Suppose when everybody normal is staying at home it's a lot easier to spot that sort of activity.

Buer

Buer wrote: »

As with any story, it has a lifespan. It's going to go away fairly quickly.

They've created a loophole in their guidance and things ultimately can't move on until they close it. They can't enforce a lockdown when such flimsy excuses have been approved by the Government. Boris had a disaster at the committee hearings yesterday (fully televised) because he couldn't give straight answers without acknowledging the existence of said loophole. The fact that it was on Prime Time TV shows the spotlight is fully on and these people are terrible under scrutiny.

So the story will diminish but it can't disappear until they close that loophole. It's bordering on the criminally farcical at this point, they've caught themselves in a hypocrisy trap of their own making just as test, trace and isolate becomes their main strategy.

They've lost a ton of credibility and good will with the public for exactly nothing in return. I'd imagine a significant aspect of the public anger must be related to the death toll and Government performance up to now, and Cummings gave everyone (brexit and remain) a chance to express that anger collectively.

They're making really basic mistakes and over promising to make up for them, this is only going one way before something snaps.

thomond2006

Careful Venjur, you're reaching a Connacht fan level of vendetta here.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

Careful Venjur, you're reaching a Connacht fan level of vendetta here.

Meh - I find it fascinating to watch, considering the proximity of Ireland and England it's astonishing how different the two cultures are.

errlloyd

Deleted User wrote: »

Meh - I find it fascinating to watch, considering the proximity of Ireland and England it's astonishing how different the two cultures are.

I don't think our cultures are different. I think politics is cyclical and that is the interesting takeaway.

Leo Vradkar is pretty comparable to New Labour.

troyzer

errlloyd wrote: »

I don't think our cultures are different. I think politics is cyclical and that is the interesting takeaway.

Leo Vradkar is pretty comparable to New Labour.

stephen_n

They’re launching their track and trace app today. Which is problematic in itself with all the privacy concerns. Matt Hancocks tweet about it though is comical, in terms of the replies. Everything has a lifespan but this one is not going anywhere for a while yet.

errlloyd

errlloyd wrote: »

I don't think our cultures are different. I think politics is cyclical and that is the interesting takeaway.

Leo Vradkar is pretty comparable to New Labour.

Yup - he's compared to Thatcher by the Shinners for some reason but he's very much more in the Blair mould.

errlloyd

troyzer wrote: »

Am happy to take your input on this Troyzer! It was a passing thought rather than a thought out thesis. I was pretty young during Tony Blair's time as PM so I might be misplacing them.

Interested Observer

Deleted User wrote: »

Yup - he's compared to Thatcher by the Shinners for some reason but he's very much more in the Blair mould.

I can think of a reason or two.

Interested Observer

Interested Observer wrote: »

I can think of a reason or two.

I really can't - I don't see any overlap in ideology or actual policy. I'm open to correction.

jacothelad

Even more trouble in store for Cummings. Apparently he was roundly rebuked by the cabinet for turning up without any work done.



He claimed that he was within his rights as the dog ate his homework.


Actually that is more believable than the pile of steaming ordure we saw the other day.

jacothelad

Deleted User wrote: »

I really can't - I don't see any overlap in ideology or actual policy. I'm open to correction.

Does he like a nice man bag?..:D

stephen_n

Deleted User wrote: »

I really can't - I don't see any overlap in ideology or actual policy. I'm open to correction.

Not getting into Irish politics, but Thatcher and Blair were both neo-liberals with fairly similar agendas. Blair was a slightly more palatable version of Maggie.

troyzer

stephen_n wrote: »

Not getting into Irish politics, but Thatcher and Blair were both neo-liberals with fairly similar agendas. Blair was a slightly more palatable version of Maggie.

Both neoliberals but the reason why they were neoliberals and how it coloured their world view is very important.

Blair was fundamentally a lefty who knew that the left would be unelectable without adopting most of what Thatcher did. But he knew it could be made fairer for all. He comes from a position of adopting the market to fix society.

Thatcher comes from the opposite perspective. Break society to suit the market. Fair has nothing to do with it.

There's a significant overlap in policy but it's important to note their differences and where they come from. Varadkar is fundamentally in the latter camp.

I'd argue Martin is more in the Blair camp. Again, lots of overlap with Varadkar. But it's well known that Martin is a social democrat and if the rest of the party was like him, it would be much further to the left.

Synode

Comparing Varadker to Thatcher :pac: I've heard it all now

troyzer

Synode wrote: »

Comparing Varadker to Thatcher :pac: I've heard it all now

Comparing him to Blair is even worse.

Neither are applicable because of how different our system is. But in terms of where they come from ideologically, Varadkar is definitely closer to Thatcher.

awec

Didn't we say no irish politics?

Yeah_Right

Trust Venjur to ruin a good thing ðŸ˜

mfceiling

Covid benefits.

Seem to have more money...unnecessary spending has quit. No takeaways and no impulse purchases (obviously not counting the road bike I bought a month ago).

Way more active. Combination of said bike and the good weather.

Eating better...no takeaways and cooking is enjoyable now.

People seem friendlier. Neighbours helping each other out and looking out for each other.

Roads are quiet. Can leave home later for work and home earlier.

Spending more time together as a family. We've only one tele so we're watching programmes suitable for all. Modern family is brilliant.

I'm trying to think positively about the whole shìt show and thankfully as a family we've suffered no friends or relatives getting sick.

Miss the oul pair to be fair. They went to Australia on Christmas eve and bar the 5 minutes in march when I met them to hand back their car, it's been facetime all the way.

Neil3030

mfceiling wrote: »

Covid benefits.

Seem to have more money...unnecessary spending has quit. No takeaways and no impulse purchases (obviously not counting the road bike I bought a month ago).

Way more active. Combination of said bike and the good weather.

Eating better...no takeaways and cooking is enjoyable now.

People seem friendlier. Neighbours helping each other out and looking out for each other.

Roads are quiet. Can leave home later for work and home earlier.

Spending more time together as a family. We've only one tele so we're watching programmes suitable for all. Modern family is brilliant.

I'm trying to think positively about the whole shìt show and thankfully as a family we've suffered no friends or relatives getting sick.

Miss the oul pair to be fair. They went to Australia on Christmas eve and bar the 5 minutes in march when I met them to hand back their car, it's been facetime all the way.

Good man mfceiling, this cheered me up!