Off Topic Thread 5.0

aloooof

Neil3030 wrote: »

Trump is worse imo.

With Cheney, violence and chaos were a means toward an end. An end that was naively assumed to be stable.

With Trump, violence and chaos are both the means and the end, as this is the only environment he can survive in.

I'd be leaning that way myself too, but I suspect we won't really know how bad Trump has been for America until well after he is out of office.

irishbucsfan

Neil3030 wrote: »

Why is Biden bad for African Americans?

I have no idea, I’m not an African American, they’re the people to ask. The discourse has been extremely critical of him. Or rather had been until the events in Minneapolis. Talk from proactive leaders about teaching democratic leaders that they should not be assuming they will get their support

Buer

b.gud wrote: »

I just want to know can the boards mods make Buer shut up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTxUKRkOoHM

Neil3030

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I have no idea, I’m not an African American, they’re the people to ask. The discourse has been extremely critical of him. Or rather had been until the events in Minneapolis. Talk from proactive leaders about teaching democratic leaders that they should not be assuming they will get their support

The presumption of African American support for the Democrats hardly started with the Biden campaign. The other main policy headache he has to stand over is his participation in the crime bill. Both are issues he'll need to rectify/defend, but spin by the right-wing machine is putting him morally on par with Trump's barely contained racism and support of white supremacists. Creating what you're calling the "extremely critical" discourse against him.

Biden secured an overwhelming majority of the black vote in the Democratic primaries (particularly in the South), and continues to receive clear support from major African American leaders like Al Sharpton. So whatever anger appears to be there, it so far seems to be manufactured and inconsequential.

And all this was before the George Floyd killing.

swiwi_

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I have no idea, I’m not an African American, they’re the people to ask. The discourse has been extremely critical of him. Or rather had been until the events in Minneapolis. Talk from proactive leaders about teaching democratic leaders that they should not be assuming they will get their support

I always pictured you as an African American. Feel quite let down really.

stephen_n

swiwi_ wrote: »

I always pictured you as an African American. Feel quite let down really.

Ali G with a Kildare accent.

irishbucsfan

Neil3030 wrote: »

The presumption of African American support for the Democrats hardly started with the Biden campaign. The other main policy headache he has to stand over is his participation in the crime bill. Both are issues he'll need to rectify/defend, but spin by the right-wing machine is putting him morally on par with Trump's barely contained racism and support of white supremacists. Creating what you're calling the "extremely critical" discourse against him.

Biden secured an overwhelming majority of the black vote in the Democratic primaries (particularly in the South), and continues to receive clear support from major African American leaders like Al Sharpton. So whatever anger appears to be there, it so far seems to be manufactured and inconsequential.

And all this was before the George Floyd killing.

Again, I’m sure Biden could absolutely walk the black vote in November if you compare it to those who come out for Trump. But that’s not enough. He needs to inspire people who otherwise would vote for no one, because Trump’s base is traditionally more dependable. He needs influential (currently relevant) black leaders to be cheerleading a Biden vote, not just begrudgingly admitting he is the better candidate (which would be an improvement from where they were last week).

Ice Cube last week was talking (along with many others) about holding the black vote hostage until there is a campaign they are satisfied with, that came after a completely unprovoked gaffe. The airwaves were full of normally apolitical morning hosts echoing that view. Even saying that only now is a massive problem and will influence turnout. He needs to turn that around 180 degrees. Rather than having relevant people actively persuading people NOT to vote, he needs them to be doing the opposite across the board. He needs to start by not shooting himself in the foot like he did, and then he needs to bring forward an agenda that actually inspires people to come along with him (and I have no idea what that would be).

I DO think however he’ll handle this horrific situation with far more grace and decorum than trump ever would, and should help him a little, maybe even far more than the original dumb-dumb comments hurt him

swiwi_

swiwi_ wrote: »

I always pictured you as an African American. Feel quite let down really.

I had to explain what set the giggles off. Well done.

irishbucsfan

Killer Mike’s speech to try convince the people of Atlanta being shared widely this morning, by people like LeBron James etc: https://twitter.com/qasimrashid/status/1266602023526506498?s=21

It would be great to have someone like him convincing people to vote for Biden. Instead, he’s actually specifically said he won’t vote for Biden himself (in his case, due to Biden’s voting history I think).

If Black rights issues are thrust to the foreground for the next couple of months, what happens if Biden is incapable of inspiring people on one side of the debate, but meanwhile Trump’s dog whistling is extremely effective at inspiring the many, many racists in that country? What if there are far more racists now than there were in 2016? That’s the sort of thing that keeps me very worried about that election.

And polling could be totally useless at giving us any insight to into it, there’s a reason a “silent” majority stay silent, there’s a reason Leave voters pretend “sovereignty” was their motivator.

Anyway, I’m going outside

molloyjh

Wow. Just, wow. That was incredible.

Bazzo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Killer Mike’s speech to try convince the people of Atlanta being shared widely this morning, by people like LeBron James etc: https://twitter.com/qasimrashid/status/1266602023526506498?s=21

It would be great to have someone like him convincing people to vote for Biden. Instead, he’s actually specifically said he won’t vote for Biden himself (in his case, due to Biden’s voting history I think).

If Black rights issues are thrust to the foreground for the next couple of months, what happens if Biden is incapable of inspiring people on one side of the debate, but meanwhile Trump’s dog whistling is extremely effective at inspiring the many, many racists in that country? What if there are far more racists now than there were in 2016? That’s the sort of thing that keeps me very worried about that election.

And polling could be totally useless at giving us any insight to into it, there’s a reason a “silent” majority stay silent, there’s a reason Leave voters pretend “sovereignty” was their motivator.

Anyway, I’m going outside

I'm not sure he has specifically said he won't vote Biden? I've searched online and can't find him quoted anywhere on the first few pages of google anyway. He was definitely a big Sanders supporter but not sure that means he won't vote Biden.

I'm a big fan of Killer Mike(as a person, but RTJ live are also some craic) but if he was actively saying he wouldn't vote Biden it would be very dumb of him when the other choice is Trump.

Squidgy Black

Bazzo wrote: »

I'm not sure he has specifically said he won't vote Biden? I've searched online and can't find him quoted anywhere on the first few pages of google anyway. He was definitely a big Sanders supporter but not sure that means he won't vote Biden.

I'm a big fan of Killer Mike(as a person, but RTJ live are also some craic) but if he was actively saying he wouldn't vote Biden it would be very dumb of him when the other choice is Trump.

I don't think he's openly said don't vote Biden, but he's certainly been critical of him and hasn't been pushing ant campaign for him unlike Bernie

https://twitter.com/KillerMike/status/1238460374585880577?s=19

irishbucsfan

Bazzo wrote: »

if he was actively saying he wouldn't vote Biden it would be very dumb of him when the other choice is Trump.

I mean... you can’t really call people dumb and then completely misrepresent or misunderstand how voting in a presidential election works! You can choose to vote for Biden, vote for Trump, vote for a 3rd party candidate, or vote for no one. If you choose not to vote for Joe Biden it does not mean your vote counts for Donald Trump.


I though I had seen him tweet about not voting for Biden because of his voting record, but I may be mistaken, apologies if I am

Bazzo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I mean... you can’t really call people dumb and then completely misrepresent or misunderstand how voting in a presidential election works! You can choose to vote for Biden, vote for Trump, vote for a 3rd party candidate, or vote for no one. If you choose not to vote for Joe Biden it does not mean your vote counts for Donald Trump.


I though I had seen him tweet about not voting for Biden because of his voting record, but I may be mistaken, apologies if I am

No, there is the tweet above where he is critical of Biden's voting record, but he never said he wouldn't vote for him.

I'd love to know how I misrepresented or misunderstoof the voting system? Voting anyone other than Biden(or not voting) in the American system is essentially increasing Trump's share of the vote and increasing his chances of winning. Even if you find Biden's past distasteful Trump might as well be an openly racist president so that's much worse.

irishbucsfan

Bazzo wrote: »

No, there is the tweet above where he is critical of Biden's voting record, but he never said he wouldn't vote for him.

I'd love to know how I misrepresented or misunderstoof the voting system? Voting anyone other than Biden(or not voting) in the American system is essentially increasing Trump's share of the vote and increasing his chances of winning. Even if you find Biden's past distasteful Trump might as well be an openly racist president so that's much worse.

You said the only other choice of voting for Biden is voting for Trump. That’s what was incorrect.

If you think people who don’t want to vote for Biden are “dumb” for considering that, even people who’ve grown up as political activists and are heavily involved in US politics and involved in campaigning for candidates within the Democratic Party, then that’s up to you. I’d say rather than assuming these people are dumb maybe it’s worth considering that for some people there are reasons that holding their community’s vote ransom (which I think was Ice Cube’s way of wording it) is worth the risk of enduring 4 more years of Trump. It’s up to Joe Biden to convince them it’s not. Rather than just assuming they will vote for him, which he pretty much admitted is exactly what his thoughts were.

Bazzo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You said the only other choice of voting for Biden is voting for Trump. That’s what was incorrect.

If you think people who don’t want to vote for Biden are “dumb” for considering that, even people who’ve grown up as political activists and are heavily involved in US politics and involved in campaigning for candidates within the Democratic Party, then that’s up to you. I’d say rather than assuming these people are dumb maybe it’s worth considering that for some people there are reasons that holding their community’s vote ransom (which I think was Ice Cube’s way of wording it) is worth the risk of enduring 4 more years of Trump. It’s up to Joe Biden to convince them it’s not. Rather than just assuming they will vote for him, which he pretty much admitted is exactly what his thoughts were.

Yeah, no. You're way off base on a couple of points there. I didn't say their only other choice was voting for trump at all, I said he was the other choice (as in on the ballot).

I also didn't call him dumb, in fact I said I was a fan of his. I said it would be dumb of him to do that, I do stupid **** all the time but I don't consider myself stupid. I'm not sure if you're wilfully misinterpreting what I said.

The system is absolutely broken but I don't see how inflicting Trump on themselves to teach the democrats a lesson or whatever is going to fix it when the current administration has been openly trying to break the system to favour them for a very long time to come(stacking the courts etc). But I guess I can see that maybe they need to appear to be willing to do that to try and get Biden etc to wake the **** up and start making moves for real change.

irishbucsfan

Bazzo wrote: »

Yeah, no. You're way off base on a couple of points there. I didn't say their only other choice was voting for trump at all, I said he was the other choice (as in on the ballot).

I also didn't call him dumb, in fact I said I was a fan of his. I said it would be dumb of him to do that, I do stupid **** all the time but I don't consider myself stupid. I'm not sure if you're wilfully misinterpreting what I said.

The system is absolutely broken but I don't see how inflicting Trump on themselves to teach the democrats a lesson or whatever is going to fix it when the current administration has been openly trying to break the system to favour them for a very long time to come(stacking the courts etc). But I guess I can see that maybe they need to appear to be willing to do that to try and get Biden etc to wake the **** up and start making moves for real change.

Well it’s not necessarily the other choice on the ballot. As I also said.

And if you agree the two party system is awful, then imagine what it feels like if you believe neither of the two parties are capable of representing your community and you believe there is a legitimate chance of negotiating a change to that with one of them. And then you’ll start to understand why these people genuinely believe that is worth the risk of 4 more years of Donald Trump. I don’t think that’s necessarily dumb at all.

Bazzo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well it’s not necessarily the other choice on the ballot. As I also said.

And if you agree the two party system is awful, then imagine what it feels like if you believe neither of the two parties are capable of representing your community and you believe there is a legitimate chance of negotiating a change to that with one of them. And then you’ll start to understand why these people genuinely believe that is worth the risk of 4 more years of Donald Trump. I don’t think that’s necessarily dumb at all.

Agree to disagree then.

ClanofLams

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well it’s not necessarily the other choice on the ballot. As I also said.

And if you agree the two party system is awful, then imagine what it feels like if you believe neither of the two parties are capable of representing your community and you believe there is a legitimate chance of negotiating a change to that with one of them. And then you’ll start to understand why these people genuinely believe that is worth the risk of 4 more years of Donald Trump. I don’t think that’s necessarily dumb at all.

In many cases these are the same people who voted Nader in 2000, Stein in 2016 etc

The system didn’t change because of that and it won’t change as a result of them voting third party this year either. All that happened was financial deregulation, tax cuts for the very wealthiest, zero gun control legislation, weakened healthcare, etc

Anyone who thinks voting Green or whatever this November will make any difference other than assisting Trump’s re-election effforts would want a reality check.

irishbucsfan

ClanofLams wrote: »

In many cases these are the same people who voted Nader in 2000, Stein in 2016 etc

The system didn’t change because of that and it won’t change as a result of them voting third party this year either. All that happened was financial deregulation, tax cuts for the very wealthiest, zero gun control legislation, weakened healthcare, etc

Anyone who thinks voting Green or whatever this November will make any difference other than assisting Trump’s re-election effforts would want a reality check.

Ah I don't think voting for Jill Stein, or whoever their nominee is this time, would change the democratic party. I think the chances of the people I'm talking about voting for Jill Stein is almost 0. Imagine Ice T and Ice Cube coming out for Jill Stein! There could be a global warming angle there though... I'm not talking about 'socialist' middle-class white people in California and Oregon.

Obviously I personally think (not that it matters) that Biden would be far better for those people for many reasons, but I think at the moment he's definitely going to struggle massively to convince those people to vote. And I'm guessing the democratic party know that (especially after his gaffe) and are just counting on beating Trump without them. I think that's pretty sad. I think being part of the Obama administration that they felt let them down so badly, and things like that Violent Crime bill Killer Mike referenced are really problematic. And I don't think female black VP candidate helps at all, it'll just be what Cornell West was calling "another black face" in that clip that went viral this morning.

I just hope he doesn't make the same sort of unforced errors when reaching out to other minorities for votes. Keep him away from the Asian communities in LA and SF, god knows what he thinks the equivalent of "you ain't black" is for them! Keep his morning radio appearances to the mid-west (although obviously not Chicago!).

Squidgy Black

As an aside, it'll be interesting to see what happens in regards to coronavirus cases over the next couple of weeks over in the states. Hundreds of thousands of people in large groups out protesting in multiple states, surely that's a breeding group for spreading the virus.

I know a lot of states have reopened/gradually reopening but you'd have to imagine this would accelerate any potential patterns in loosening restrictions.

Neil3030

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Again, I’m sure Biden could absolutely walk the black vote in November if you compare it to those who come out for Trump. But that’s not enough. He needs to inspire people who otherwise would vote for no one, because Trump’s base is traditionally more dependable. He needs influential (currently relevant) black leaders to be cheerleading a Biden vote, not just begrudgingly admitting he is the better candidate (which would be an improvement from where they were last week).

Ice Cube last week was talking (along with many others) about holding the black vote hostage until there is a campaign they are satisfied with, that came after a completely unprovoked gaffe. The airwaves were full of normally apolitical morning hosts echoing that view. Even saying that only now is a massive problem and will influence turnout. He needs to turn that around 180 degrees. Rather than having relevant people actively persuading people NOT to vote, he needs them to be doing the opposite across the board. He needs to start by not shooting himself in the foot like he did, and then he needs to bring forward an agenda that actually inspires people to come along with him (and I have no idea what that would be).

I DO think however he’ll handle this horrific situation with far more grace and decorum than trump ever would, and should help him a little, maybe even far more than the original dumb-dumb comments hurt him

As Charlamagne put it in the infamous gaffe-laden interview, black voters gave Biden the democratic candidacy. Granted, Booker and Harris withdrew before the votes were cast, and he'll eventually need to convince voters aside from registered democrats, but securing this vote above other democrats is at least consistent with him inspiring black voters, and definitely inconsistent with them simply seeing him as the lesser of two bad options vis Trump.

I haven't kept up with Ice Cube's more recent media work, so I can only presume he read the 22-page document released some time ago by Biden's camp, detailing his specific plan for black America; the plan that Al Sharpton has repeatedly said he'd rather be focusing on, rather than the gaffes.

All this being said, I think he has potentially done yet more harm just now, claiming Charlamagne was "baiting" him, in an interview where he let CthaG speak for a total of 9 seconds.

Zzippy

stephen_n wrote: »

Ali G with a Kildare accent.

"Izzit cos I iz a lilywhite?"

MaybeMaybe

anyone watching this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIZsnKGV8TE

Dave_The_Sheep

If anyone wants to watch the SpaceX launch this evening, it's supposed to launch shortly. T minus eight minutes.

[edit] Snap, MaybeMaybe.

If you go out in around 10 minutes and look to the horizon to the south east and up to the moon and scan that area of sky you may see the ISS and around 5 minutes later the shuttle.

kuang1

Holy mahony...
I'm watching Trump speak live, and I'm reminded of Mars attacks, war of the worlds, and world war z all at once.

kuang1

I'm confused about one thing though... Is Musk a pal of Trump?

kuang1

Ok this is parody now right...
Steve Carell's latest show was a bit of a flop, but The Donald obviously loved it it. Because he's using the plot of that show to plot his adventure into space!

Surreal.

And the only popcorn I have is spicy... Pheck it twill do.

The Lost Sheep

kuang1 wrote: »

I'm confused about one thing though... Is Musk a pal of Trump?

Not sure pal is right but they seem to be sharing a lot in common these days.
Criticising Twitter. Travelling to moon. Against lockdown in individual states
More think they're two twisted individuals with warped ideals that share some similarities