Off Topic Thread 5.0

Buer

Buer wrote: »

Unless it's the beginning of an exceptionally lengthy and drawn out end, I doubt it. I would wager there's absolutely zero appetite for a 3rd general election in 3 years. The death total for Britain could double in the next month and it wouldn't trigger an election right now.

This story has just been made much, much worse. I'm not saying there is going to be another election, but I think Johnson has to go now and be replaced by the Tory party.

prawnsambo

Deleted User wrote: »

This story has just been made much, much worse. I'm not saying there is going to be another election, but I think Johnson has to go now and be replaced by the Tory party.

Not sure Michael Gove would be an improvement.

Buer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This story has just been made much, much worse. I'm not saying there is going to be another election, but I think Johnson has to go now and be replaced by the Tory party.

Unless he's ousted by his own cabinet, he's going nowhere and some key cabinet members have already come out in support. He still has some major media outlets holding firm for him too. I don't see him going anywhere soon.

Buer

Buer wrote: »

Unless he's ousted by his own cabinet, he's going nowhere and some key cabinet members have already come out in support. He still has some major media outlets holding firm for him too. I don't see him going anywhere soon.

They've really misjudged the anger levels of this and as much as they've continued to make fools of their supporters, the excuses today just won't be swallowed.

I think there is a wave of rage on the way.

Former Former

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This story has just been made much, much worse. I'm not saying there is going to be another election, but I think Johnson has to go now and be replaced by the Tory party.

No, this has strengthened his position.

Squidgy Black

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They've really misjudged the anger levels of this and as much as they've continued to make fools of their supporters, the excuses today just won't be swallowed.

I think there is a wave of rage on the way.

I think you're over-estimating the Tory support Venjur.

There was a YouGov survey done before Boris made any statement on it after the second trip was reported in the media and it was something like only 52% of respondents agreed that he should resign.

They'll weather this and their supporters will brush it under the carpet like they've done with most of the Brexit gaffes that've occured and it'll be business as usual until the next fúck up which will inevitably have the same outcome.

Former Former

Former Former wrote: »

No, this has strengthened his position.

I'd be interested to know how!

Neil3030

Tories would lose seats in a GE so that'll never happen. BoJo is the fall guy for a cabinet whose hands are dripping with blood so they'll continue to support him.

All good things come to an end. Our once great neighbour is imploding into its own egotistical arse.

Get ahead of the curve and learn German, or hell, even Mandarin; future reliance on English-speaking trade doesn't look like a very safe bet.

Former Former

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'd be interested to know how!

Because this is such a clear cut case of him and his mate being completely in the wrong, absolutely no debating it, and yet no one has laid a glove on either of them. A couple of back benchers came out against Cummings but the cabinet rowed in behind him and very quickly.

Starmer has been pretty timid IMO when it seems to be tailor made for attacking the PM.

This will blow over and Johnson will have seen a little bit more of what he can get away with. He'll just keep pushing the boundaries, why shouldn't he?

Former Former

Former Former wrote: »

Because this is such a clear cut case of him and his mate being completely in the wrong, absolutely no debating it, and yet no one has laid a glove on either of them. A couple of back benchers came out against Cummings but the cabinet rowed in behind him and very quickly.

Starmer has been pretty timid IMO when it seems to be tailor made for attacking the PM.

This will blow over and Johnson will have seen a little bit more of what he can get away with. He'll just keep pushing the boundaries, why shouldn't he?

I don't think there is any chance this story goes away anytime soon and if at any time the numbers get worse it comes roaring back as the reason for a lack of compliance.

Starmer is right to be quiet, the media and the Tory's themselves are doing his job for him. Boris's popularity has taken a hammering already, this is going to make it much worse with those new voters they pick up who hate 'elitism'.

I'm open to the possibility that you are right, but I can see positions becoming untenable quite quickly from here.

stephen_n

Buer wrote: »

Laura Kuenssberg absolutely softballing questions to him that appear almost prearranged.

The BBC have completely given up any impression of impartiality.

She has absolutely no credibility as a political journalist anymore.

jacothelad

Stheno wrote: »

Ah but the poor chaps eyesight was affected by his illness :pac:

Where's your compassion Venjur?

It wasn't Covid19 that affected his eyesight ..............unless it compels sufferers to engage in vast bouts of Onanism..... :D

jacothelad

swiwi_ wrote: »

Sounds like the chap doesn’t know whether he’s coming or going...

It's Cummings' comings and goings that are the problem.

Neil3030

jacothelad wrote: »

It wasn't Covid19 that affected his eyesight ..............unless it compels sufferers to engage in vast bouts of Onanism..... :D

I suspect the opposite, with the emerging evidence of Covid's endothelial damage, you'd probably want to avoid over working the blood vessels...

Podge_irl

I tend to agree with Venjur. Completely open to the possibility that I'm wrong, but it seems like things have become a lot more heated and personal than the govt were expecting. I suspect they thought this would be a media created non-event and it has very much not turned out that way. I think it will continue to dog them.

The cabinet rowed in behind him and have been made to look like fools with the subsequent reporting. They have little choice but to double down now but its not working.

Buer

stephen_n wrote: »

She has absolutely no credibility as a political journalist anymore.

Indeed. Unfortunately she has a serious level of influence given she's the political editor of the BBC. What she does and doesn't publish or approve shapes the opinion of a nation. The BBC reluctance to not necessarily give significant air time but even publish some major talking points in recent weeks and months is troubling.

stephen_n

Podge_irl wrote: »

.

The cabinet rowed in behind him and have been made to look like fools with the subsequent reporting. They have little choice but to double down now but its not working.

The cabinet remained fully behind him after the press conference today. Some of them even doubling down, saying it was all untrue.

Buer wrote: »

Indeed. Unfortunately she has a serious level of influence given she's the political editor of the BBC. What she does and doesn't publish or approve shapes the opinion of a nation. The BBC reluctance to not necessarily give significant air time but even publish some major talking points in recent weeks and months is troubling.

Yeah her Twitter has been basically acting as his press office since this kicked off. Not very good for the independence of the BBC. I’m sure some of the journalists under her are really appalled watching it unfold.

prawnsambo

stephen_n wrote: »

Yeah her Twitter has been basically acting as his press office since this kicked off. Not very good for the independence of the BBC. I’m sure some of the journalists under her are really appalled watching it unfold.

It's been going on a lot longer than that. She continually references 'sources' in Downing Street and it's always government spin. She's now referred to as 'Dame' Laura, it's got so obvious.

Interested Observer

Cummins and BoJo have actually managed to draw negative headlines from the Daily Mail. That is a remarkable achievement.

I have a look at the Telegraph every now and then just to see an alleged broadsheet debase itself. It's fascinating.

prawnsambo

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's been going on a lot longer than that. She continually references 'sources' in Downing Street and it's always government spin. She's now referred to as 'Dame' Laura, it's got so obvious.

Kuennsberg jumped into the twitter feed of a Mirror journalist who broke the story to offer excuses on behalf of the Government using one of her 'sources'. It was a moment of clarity I think for a lot of people as she has been pilloried since. It's readily apparent now that there is coordination between her and the Government and it's sad it's taken a pandemic to expose this.

As for Johnson :

https://twitter.com/ChrisHopkins92/status/1265206072794648576?s=19

He is taking on board water now. This is a populist Government with a strong persona at it's core who seems to be losing the public. A ministerial resignation this morning.

I can't see this going away.

How can an approval rating be a negative number

troyzer

He'll be fine. And the Tories will probably win re-election as well.

The bastards.

troyzer

troyzer wrote: »

He'll be fine. And the Tories will probably win re-election as well.

The bastards.

I know we're almost conditioned to watching on and seeing the UK fold in on itself under mountains of bull**** but it's really looking like the Government are in serious trouble here.

When populism fails it fails spectacularly. Don't be surprised if it turns out we're watching a major derailing of this 4 year long experiment.

troyzer

Deleted User wrote: »

I know we're almost conditioned to watching on and seeing the UK fold in on itself under mountains of bull**** but it's really looking like the Government are in serious trouble here.

When populism fails it fails spectacularly. Don't be surprised if it turns out we're watching a major derailing of this 4 year long experiment.

The Tories have an enormous majority. There's no mechanism to force change.

A few of the 1922 committee can complain but nothing is going to happen. At the very most, they'll sack Cummings. Or he'll resign.

There's no way the government falls.

Bazzo

troyzer wrote: »

He'll be fine. And the Tories will probably win re-election as well.

The bastards.

You're probably right. A co-worker of mine(I work but don't live in a constituency in Cheshire that flipped labour to tory in December) asked me before the election whether she was "supposed to vote Tory or Conservative", after I explained that they were the same thing and asked why she wanted to vote for them anyway she told me it was "because the media are biased against them". She is a low skilled low earner who would benefit vastly more from a left leaning government than a right.

I decided that day a)the democratic system in the UK is FUBAR and b) to move back to Ireland as soon as financially possible.

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

How can an approval rating be a negative number

More people polled disapprove of him than approve of him

It's not the case that they are simply summing "how many people approve" where the absolute lowest value is 0 approval, but rather they are contrasting "yes I approve" vs "no I don't approve" where the lowest possible value is 100% negative (no-I-don't-approve) approval.

troyzer

Bazzo wrote: »

You're probably right. A co-worker of mine(I work but don't live in a constituency in Cheshire that flipped labour to tory in December) asked me before the election whether she was "supposed to vote Tory or Conservative", after I explained that they were the same thing and asked why she wanted to vote for them anyway she told me it was "because the media are biased against them". She is a low skilled low earner who would benefit vastly more from a left leaning government than a right.

I decided that day a)the democratic system in the UK is FUBAR and b) to move back to Ireland as soon as financially possible.

The UK is absolutely broken in terms of people voting against their best interest.

Most of the core Labour vote is either the liberal, left leaning Londoner type who are nowhere near big enough or people who vote Labour because their parents did. And these people are increasingly being won over by the anti-immigrant and nationalist rhetoric of the right.

There is no Labour base anymore. The Unions are dying as well.

It's extremely difficult to see how Labour are going to win going forward. Especially if they can't get back their 50 seats in Scotland.

troyzer

troyzer wrote: »

The Tories have an enormous majority. There's no mechanism to force change.

A few of the 1922 committee can complain but nothing is going to happen. At the very most, they'll sack Cummings. Or he'll resign.

There's no way the government falls.

I don't think we're heading for an election. I think Johnson's position may very soon become untenable.

It seems the opposition leaders and the leaders from the devolved Governments have had enough and are calling this not just a political crisis but a public health one.

This is going to get very bad for them and public opinion is nose diving.

troyzer

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think we're heading for an election. I think Johnson's position may very soon become untenable.

It seems the opposition leaders and the leaders from the devolved Governments have had enough and are calling this not just a political crisis but a public health one.

This is going to get very bad for them and public opinion is nose diving.

Public opinion and shouting from the opposite benches mean absolutely **** all. They can't force him to do anything he doesn't want to do. Only his party can.

The Lost Sheep

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

More people polled disapprove of him than approve of him

It's not the case that they are simply summing "how many people approve" where the absolute lowest value is 0 approval, but rather they are contrasting "yes I approve" vs "no I don't approve" where the lowest possible value is 100% negative (no-I-don't-approve) approval.

This massively changes my understand of approval ratings. This doesn't sound right to me. I would have thought Trump's approval rating would hoover around 0 than rather than 45 given the polarisation.