Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Ginger n Lemon

gozunda wrote: »

And again that post much like your others is lityle more than a **** sandwich of cheap shots and bluster.

You can ignore the fact that the Covid-19 poses a significant risk to human life and public health and is highly contagious all you like. Thankfully such denial of the facts doesn't change anything, other than highlight the incredible stupidity of that type of ignorance.

I suggest you knock of the alcohol. Its doing you no favours.

Significant risk? So, is that why all of below is happening, TODAY? I love this country, it has great potential but for some reason our heads of genuinely chose to keep us in medieval times in comparison to all of below countries.

1 thing that unites Ireland, Germany, Italy & Spain - peak has been reached and passed and curve has been flattened in all... fact.

"
After eight weeks in lockdown, Italy is finally lifting some of its restrictions. People will be able to visit relatives, parks are reopening, and bars and restaurants can do takeaway. About four million people are expected to go back to work.

Small businesses like hairdressers are opening their doors in Spain, though they can only serve customers who have made appointments. Some of the country's islands will loosen restrictions even further, as they have not been as badly affected as the mainland

Zoos, museums, hairdressers and even some schools reopen in Germany, with the youngest students there returning to classrooms first"

magic17

JRant wrote: »

Looking at the numbers again this morning and it's even more encouraging than I thought. 60,000 tests carried out last week, which is over 33% of all tests carried out to date (160,000). The percentage of positive results was still well below 5% growth rate day on day. This was mainly nursing homes as well where they know they already have clusters. They plan on beginning residential care settings this week. Numbers down to 93 in ICU and continuing to fall.

Disappointed to hear they are only now planning on using the private hospitals for non-covid treatments. They really should have been sweating those assets this whole time as we are paying top dollar for using them.

All in all, I think we should be out of this long before August. A new government should be formed in a couple of weeks and will be made up of TDs that actually represent constituents rather than the likes of Ross and Zappone. There is absolutely no way we see the types of restrictions outlined in the roadmap until mid August, especially considering it's costing at least 600 million extra a week so far, not including the 6.5 billion package announced on Friday.

Great post. Good to see some positivity among all the doom and gloom merchants. It really looks like in 3-4 weeks, and that's being cautious, we are going to be seeing far fewer cases and probably very very few deaths per day.

easypazz

gozunda wrote: »

that post much like your others is lityle more than a **** sandwich of cheap shots and bluster.

You need to stop talking about yourself all the time.

easypazz

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Significant risk? So, is that why all of below is happening, TODAY? I love this country, it has great potential but for some reason our heads of genuinely chose to keep us in medieval times in comparison to all of below countries.

1 thing that unites Ireland, Germany, Italy & Spain - peak has been reached and passed and curve has been flattened in all... fact.

"
After eight weeks in lockdown, Italy is finally lifting some of its restrictions. People will be able to visit relatives, parks are reopening, and bars and restaurants can do takeaway. About four million people are expected to go back to work.

Small businesses like hairdressers are opening their doors in Spain, though they can only serve customers who have made appointments. Some of the country's islands will loosen restrictions even further, as they have not been as badly affected as the mainland

Zoos, museums, hairdressers and even some schools reopen in Germany, with the youngest students there returning to classrooms first"

Regarding significant risk. 1.35 Million people die in car crashes every year.

So far 250000 have died of COVID.

If we reduced global speed limits to 50kph and put speed restrictors on cars we would certainly save a lot more than 250000 lives, with minimal effort, every year. It would free up untold ICU beds.

Yet no politician wants to go there.


COVID 19 has been overhyped beyond comprehension.

shocksy

easypazz wrote: »

Regarding significant risk. 1.35 Million people die in car crashes every year.

So far 250000 have died of COVID.

If we reduced global speed limits to 50kph and put speed restrictors on cars we would certainly save a lot more than 250000 lives, with minimal effort, every year. It would free up untold ICU beds.

Yet no politician wants to go there.


COVID 19 has been overhyped beyond comprehension.

Yawn!!!!! Do you never get tired of posting the same sh!t over and over. The road map has been laid out. Deal with it. You wont be having pints anytime soon KID.

Now run along to another thread were you will most likely continue more of your repetitive sh!t posting. See ya kid.

shocksy

easypazz wrote: »

Regarding significant risk. 1.35 Million people die in car crashes every year.

So far 250000 have died of COVID.

If we reduced global speed limits to 50kph and put speed restrictors on cars we would certainly save a lot more than 250000 lives, with minimal effort, every year. It would free up untold ICU beds.

Yet no politician wants to go there.


COVID 19 has been overhyped beyond comprehension.

Yawn!!!!! Do you never get tired of posting the same sh!t over and over. The road map has been laid out. Deal with it. You wont be having pints anytime soon KID.

Now run along to another thread were you will most likely continue more of your repetitive sh!t posting. See ya kid.

gozunda

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Significant risk? So, is that why all of below is happening, TODAY? I love this country, it has great potential but for some reason our heads of genuinely chose to keep us in medieval times in comparison to all of below countries.
1 thing that unites Ireland, Germany, Italy & Spain - peak has been reached and passed and curve has been flattened in all... fact.
After eight weeks in lockdown, Italy is finally lifting some of its restrictions. People will be able to visit relatives, parks are reopening, and bars and restaurants can do takeaway. About four million people are expected to go back to work. Small businesses like hairdressers are opening their doors in Spain, though they can only serve customers who have made appointments. Some of the country's islands will loosen restrictions even further, as they have not been as badly affected as the mainland
Zoos, museums, hairdressers and even some schools reopen in Germany, with the youngest students there returning to classrooms first"

Not me saying that Covid-19 as a disease is a significant risk btw. That's the concensus of health professional globally. I'd suggest you discuss that with them.

As to why restrictions are starting to lift in some countries? Because yes those countries have managed to reduce the numbers being infected and dying from Covid-19. However even those countries acknowledge they are not out of the woods yet.

Btw re Italy which has been eight weeks with restrictions. The restrictions here started on March 12th - that's just six weeks.

What needs to be watched is that some areas like Germany who were winding back restrictions are seeing an increase in infection rates.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/04/28/coronavirus-germany-s-covid-19-infection-rate-rises-after-lockdown-lifted

Ginger n Lemon

easypazz wrote: »

Regarding significant risk. 1.35 Million people die in car crashes every year.

So far 250000 have died of COVID.

If we reduced global speed limits to 50kph and put speed restrictors on cars we would certainly save a lot more than 250000 lives, with minimal effort, every year. It would free up untold ICU beds.

Yet no politician wants to go there.


COVID 19 has been overhyped beyond comprehension.

It has. And very smart people already say this, below video is on youtube

Nobel prize winning scientist Prof Michael Levitt: lockdown is a “huge mistake”

If people arent willing to listen to Nobel prize winning scientists then I actually think there is no hope. And hopefully NPHET will listen too.

There was a great quote there below
"
What we needed was sensible voluntary social distancing, more face masks and PPE, and more testing. Instead we got the Great Panic, termination of all liberties and catastrophic economic outcomes."

road_high

shocksy wrote: »

Yawn!!!!! Do you never get tired of posting the same sh!t over and over. The road map has been laid out. Deal with it. You wont be having pints anytime soon KID.

Now run along to another thread were you will most likely continue more of your repetitive sh!t posting. See ya kid.

It's pathetic how so many people in Ireland just have no independent logical analytical skills and appear incapable of doing anything Independent of "what the government say". Their road-map doesn't have all the answers, we don't know in a week or twos time whether it will look sensible- as we stand it looks embarrassingly conservative and therefore unaffordable.

dePeatrick

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

It has. And very smart people already say this, below video is on youtube

Nobel prize winning scientist Prof Michael Levitt: lockdown is a “huge mistake”

If people arent willing to listen to Nobel prize winning scientists then I actually think there is no hope. And hopefully NPHET will listen too.

There was a great quote there below
"
What we needed was sensible voluntary social distancing, more face masks and PPE, and more testing. Instead we got the Great Panic, termination of all liberties and catastrophic economic outcomes."

Quite easy say this now, not two months ago though.

JRant

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Significant risk? So, is that why all of below is happening, TODAY? I love this country, it has great potential but for some reason our heads of genuinely chose to keep us in medieval times in comparison to all of below countries.

1 thing that unites Ireland, Germany, Italy & Spain - peak has been reached and passed and curve has been flattened in all... fact.

"
After eight weeks in lockdown, Italy is finally lifting some of its restrictions. People will be able to visit relatives, parks are reopening, and bars and restaurants can do takeaway. About four million people are expected to go back to work.

Small businesses like hairdressers are opening their doors in Spain, though they can only serve customers who have made appointments. Some of the country's islands will loosen restrictions even further, as they have not been as badly affected as the mainland

Zoos, museums, hairdressers and even some schools reopen in Germany, with the youngest students there returning to classrooms first"

My take on the roadmap is that it is super conservative on purpose. When we get out of this quicker than outlined then they can turn around and give themselves a massive pat on the back.

People have an extraordinary ability to change in the face of adversity, however if the government won't allow businesses to even try then that's an absolute scandal.

Another point that needs to be made is Phase 5 is completely unworkable. We cannot change hundreds of years of building and infrastructure planning over a few short months. Social distancing is not here to stay, it's a stop gap measure. People living in high volume areas cannot and should not be expected to adhere to 2m separation indefinitely. Schools, creches, public transport, office spaces are not designed that way and being honest never will.

Ginger n Lemon

gozunda wrote: »

Not me saying that Covid-19 as a disease is a significant risk btw. That's the concensus of health professional globally. I'd suggest you discuss that with them.

As to why restrictions are starting to lift in some countries? Because yes those countries have managed to reduce the numbers being infected and dying from Covid-19. However even those countries acknowledge they are not out of the woods yet.

Btw re Italy which has been eight weeks with restrictions. The restrictions here started on March 12th - that's just six weeks.

What needs to be watched is that some areas like Germany who were winding back restrictions are seeing an increase in infection rates.

Today is 4th of May, 7 weeks lockdown here.

I appreciate those countries acknowledge the virus isnt gone, but how is Ireland different? Have we not flattened the curve? Have we not reached the peak?

I guess the question is very simple, why are barbers scheduled to be out of work in Ireland for 5 months while in countries like Spain, Germany, Denmark, etc 2 months? There is something here that isnt right, you cant dismiss that... ? If you say we are being super protective and cautious I ll understand.

PS the consensus of health professionals globally? WHO came out last week and said Sweden's model is the way to go. January to April of this year they were saying Sweden are crazy. Please tell me what credibility do global health professionals have left?

storker

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

There was a great quote there below
"
What we needed was sensible voluntary social distancing, more face masks and PPE, and more testing. Instead we got the Great Panic, termination of all liberties and catastrophic economic outcomes."

I didn't know they gave Nobel prizes for hyperbole.


(Actually his Nobel prize was for chemistry - he's neither a doctor nor a virologist.)


.

Nickindublin

Mistakes have been made and i think answers will come and the media are way to soft on the government. I think its a disgrace that the HSE/NPHET seem to be running the country and that we have cabinet ministers dictating policy that have no seats. The Greens FF and FG should form a government until September. They could then go into talks and agree a program for the next 4 years and if they cant agree we can hold another election in October.

This road map is way too slow. Portugal are opening from today. Hairdressers yes you and get a haircut from today in Portugal and everything will be re opened by June. But in Ireland that will be 4 months minimum because Tony is bald(mobile hairdressers will be making a fortune) IMO we should be aiming to reopen everything by July and then implementing the Swedish style which the WHO have said every country will have to do as we cant be closing down and reopening economies. This would be social distancing, Work from home and locking down our care facilities. People dont only die from Covid 19. This is going to come back and haunt us in the years to come.

easypazz

shocksy wrote: »

Yawn!!!!! Do you never get tired of posting the same sh!t over and over. The road map has been laid out. Deal with it. You wont be having pints anytime soon KID.

Now run along to another thread were you will most likely continue more of your repetitive sh!t posting. See ya kid.

It is very sad to see so many people blindly following the Leo plan without have the intuition to even question it.

And then they have a meltdown when somebody proposes anything alternative, demanding people leave the thread.

So sad.

Keano

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Today is 4th of May, 7 weeks lockdown here.

I appreciate those countries acknowledge the virus isnt gone, but how is Ireland different? Have we not flattened the curve? Have we not reached the peak?

I guess the question is very simple, why are barbers scheduled to be out of work in Ireland for 5 months while in countries like Spain, Germany, Denmark, etc 2 months? There is something here that isnt right, you cant dismiss that... ? If you say we are being super protective and cautious I ll understand.

PS the consensus of health professionals globally? WHO came out last week and said Sweden's model is the way to go. January to April of this year they were saying Sweden are crazy. Please tell me what credibility do global health professionals have left?

“What it has done differently is it has very much relied on its relationship with its citizenry and the ability and willingness of its citizens to implement self-distancing and self-regulate,” Ryan said. “In that sense, they have implemented public policy through that partnership with the population.”

Swedish people listened to their government and did the right thing by each other. Do you think Irish people would have stayed at home had a softly softly approach been used here?

gozunda

easypazz wrote: »

Regarding significant risk. 1.35 Million people die in car crashes every year.So far 250000 have died of COVID.If we reduced global speed limits to 50kph and put speed restrictors on cars we would certainly save a lot more than 250000 lives, with minimal effort, every year. It would free up untold ICU beds.Yet no politician wants to go there.COVID 19 has been overhyped beyond comprehension.

Do you even read the rubbish you post in this thread?

Yes indeed people do die in car crashes. And yes there are lots of measures and restrictions such as speed limits which attempt to limit those deaths. People also die by drowning and falling off ladders. Very odd you dont seem to be aware of this ...

News for you - the fact that there are significant risks do not negate others

How about we wait a year and see the global death rate of Covid-19 before you make any more daft comparisons?

And I hate to have to spell it out in simple words to you however - Car accidents are not a highly contagious pathogen disease. Yeah you've told us many times now you dont believe anything about the Pandemic the experts are telling you. That's it all made up and a big conspiracy etc etc. Can you understand that such blatherings are simply getting tiresome at this stage ...

Ginger n Lemon

easypazz wrote: »

It is very sad to see so many people blindly following the Leo plan without have the intuition to even question it.

And then they have a meltdown when somebody proposes anything alternative, demanding people leave the thread.

So sad.

It is very sad. Its a national shame. I know a lad who thinks pubs should be shut down into 2021, because "how are they going to do social distancing there"

Leo's plan is 5 months effective lockdown for shopping centres, barbers, restaurants etc. And when those places open they are to run at 50% capacity and lay off 50% of their workforce, naturally.

But fear not, apparently there are people inside Leo's party who are disagreeing with this approach. No smoke without fire.

retro:electro

JRant wrote: »

Looking at the numbers again this morning and it's even more encouraging than I thought. 60,000 tests carried out last week, which is over 33% of all tests carried out to date (160,000). The percentage of positive results was still well below 5% growth rate day on day. This was mainly nursing homes as well where they know they already have clusters. They plan on beginning residential care settings this week. Numbers down to 93 in ICU and continuing to fall.

Disappointed to hear they are only now planning on using the private hospitals for non-covid treatments. They really should have been sweating those assets this whole time as we are paying top dollar for using them.

All in all, I think we should be out of this long before August. A new government should be formed in a couple of weeks and will be made up of TDs that actually represent constituents rather than the likes of Ross and Zappone. There is absolutely no way we see the types of restrictions outlined in the roadmap until mid August, especially considering it's costing at least 600 million extra a week so far, not including the 6.5 billion package announced on Friday.

I can’t see how the public will cooperate with these measures until August. We have ICU numbers below 100. We have private hospitals lying empty waiting for this surge that never came and will likely never come. We have decreasing cases by the week and decreasing deaths by the day. By the start of August, while the rest of Europe is likely to be thriving and getting on with life; we will only have moved into stage 4 over here. It’s highly likely our new cases could be very little and deaths little if none at all. If this is the case, how are we as a country going to justify 17% unemployment, the country still in mass shutdown and extremely bleak times ahead?

It’s good to have a road map and I’m thankful that we do. But come July/August if the rest of Europe has gotten a good handle on this and we’re all still over here on the dole and not allowed to see our families, many people won’t comply with that, especially if the numbers are manageable.

the kelt

JRant wrote: »

My take on the roadmap is that it is super conservative on purpose. When we get out of this quicker than outlined then they can turn around and give themselves a massive pat on the back.

People have an extraordinary ability to change in the face of adversity, however if the government won't allow businesses to even try then that's an absolute scandal.

Another point that needs to be made is Phase 5 is completely unworkable. We cannot change hundreds of years of building and infrastructure planning over a few short months. Social distancing is not here to stay, it's a stop gap measure. People living in high volume areas cannot and should not be expected to adhere to 2m separation indefinitely. Schools, creches, public transport, office spaces are not designed that way and being honest never will.

I admire your optimism with this and your other post.

In an ideal world yes it’s possible, the problem we have is for us to even meet the 3 weeks between phases (apparently the HSE wanted 4) we need mr cervical check scandal and his boardroom minions to also meet their targets which I have zero faith in happening.

Simply put since March 12th we still haven’t our testing up to where it was meant to be weeks ago, turnaround times for results still not near good enough, contact tracing still not up to speed and we have a mess in nursing homes but he still won’t allow a private nursing home rep sit on the NPHET (perhaps they’re trying to hide something from them?)

Plus at this point in time no one knows even what the numbers are meant to be to progress through phases anyway because ye know on the rare occasions they do get tasked with a question about specifics their answer is vague in the extreme (as low as possible an answer to a specific question concerning numbers)

So I admire your optimism but don’t share it.

easypazz

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Today is 4th of May, 7 weeks lockdown here.

I appreciate those countries acknowledge the virus isnt gone, but how is Ireland different? Have we not flattened the curve? Have we not reached the peak?

I guess the question is very simple, why are barbers scheduled to be out of work in Ireland for 5 months while in countries like Spain, Germany, Denmark, etc 2 months? There is something here that isnt right, you cant dismiss that... ? If you say we are being super protective and cautious I ll understand.

PS the consensus of health professionals globally? WHO came out last week and said Sweden's model is the way to go. January to April of this year they were saying Sweden are crazy. Please tell me what credibility do global health professionals have left?

On 23 January director of the HSE's Health Protection Surveillance Centre said the risk of coronavirus cases in Ireland was “quite low”, “If we were to see a case in a European country the risk of a secondary case – a person transmitting to somebody else – is also low”.


The above was the position of Irish "experts" in January. These same clueless people are now presiding over possibly the most conservative unwinding plan in Europe or even the world.


It is disappointing that so many people continue to blindly follow their doctrine and never question anything.

Ginger n Lemon

easypazz wrote: »

On 23 January director of the HSE's Health Protection Surveillance Centre said the risk of coronavirus cases in Ireland was “quite low”, “If we were to see a case in a European country the risk of a secondary case – a person transmitting to somebody else – is also low”.


The above was the position of Irish "experts" in January. These same clueless people are now presiding over possibly the most conservative unwinding plan in Europe or even the world.


It is disappointing that so many people continue to blindly follow their doctrine and never question anything.

The lack of expertise is frightening. It's a bit like getting into a plane to travel to another continent and you are being told that it's pilot's first flight.

JRant

Keano wrote: »

“What it has done differently is it has very much relied on its relationship with its citizenry and the ability and willingness of its citizens to implement self-distancing and self-regulate,” Ryan said. “In that sense, they have implemented public policy through that partnership with the population.”

Swedish people listened to their government and did the right thing by each other. Do you think Irish people would have stayed at home had a softly softly approach been used here?

Of course we could have implemented it. A few people rocked up to Glendalough and the media lost their minds. Cafe's, restaurants, and other small businesses could have tried outdoor seating where possible.
The problem isn't the general population, it's how a small number of people breaking restrictions seems to result in everyone being dealt in the same way. If beauty spots are and issue close them down. If some businesses are flaunting guidelines shut them down. Don't shut the entire country down though. That's a super conservative mindset and IMO a holdover from our recent past.

easypazz

gozunda wrote: »

People also die by drowning and falling off ladders. Very odd you dont seem to be aware of this

Yeah I never knew people died by drowning. Thanks for enlightening me.

gozunda wrote: »

And I hate to have to spell it out in simple words to you however - Car accidents are not a highly contagious pathogen disease.

Again, thanks for explaining this to me, I never would have known.

gozunda wrote: »

Yeah you've told us many times now you dont believe anything about the Pandemic the experts are telling you..

Never said that.

gozunda wrote: »

Do you even read the rubbish you post in this thread?

You were saying about writing rubbish. Tell us about WW2 again for the laugh.

lord quackinton

retro:electro wrote: »

I can’t see how the public will cooperate with these measures until August. We have ICU numbers below 100. We have private hospitals lying empty waiting for this surge that never came and will likely never come. We have decreasing cases by the week and decreasing deaths by the day. By the start of August, while the rest of Europe is likely to be thriving and getting on with life; we will only have moved into stage 4 over here. It’s highly likely our new cases could be very little and deaths little if none at all. If this is the case, how are we as a country going to justify 17% unemployment, the country still in mass shutdown and extremely bleak times ahead?

It’s good to have a road map and I’m thankful that we do. But come July/August if the rest of Europe has gotten a good handle on this and we’re all still over here on the dole and not allowed to see our families, many people won’t comply with that, especially if the numbers are manageable.

The government cmo path would make sense if
1. They believed that Europe will soon have to lockdown again and
2, we stopped all inward travel to this state and that’s From the north too

That I could get behind, it has logic, but if the government were so worried about this virus and wanted to “beat” the virus did they not stop all inward and outward travel from day 1
This is a valid question and we have no answer

Also the escape to freedom plan, how did they come up with this schedule
Would love to see the logic of council building sites open last 2 weeks but private sites not open for another 2 weeks

Any lockdowners have any answers or are you going Io little snippets of posts to go all Leo on

retro:electro

Leo also said another two weeks of these restrictions would “weaken the virus”, and no one seems to have challenged him on that. Does the person who writes his speeches even understand the basics? The virus will still be there in all the same strength and glory on May 18th.

Ginger n Lemon

lord quackinton wrote: »

The government cmo path would make sense if
1. They believed that Europe will soon have to lockdown again and
2, we stopped all inward travel to this state and that’s From the north too

That I could get behind, it has logic, but if the government were so worried about this virus and wanted to “beat” the virus did they not stop all inward and outward travel from day 1
This is a valid question and we have no answer

Also the escape to freedom plan, how did they come up with this schedule
Would love to see the logic of council building sites open last 2 weeks but private sites not open for another 2 weeks

Any lockdowners have any answers or are you going Io little snippets of posts to go all Leo on

The part of "they want to beat the virus" is quite frightening. I am fearful there is a bit of ego involved, Simon Harris looks very competitive to me, could he crash the economy to "win against the virus"?

I hope not.

JRant

retro:electro wrote: »

I can’t see how the public will cooperate with these measures until August. We have ICU numbers below 100. We have private hospitals lying empty waiting for this surge that never came and will likely never come. We have decreasing cases by the week and decreasing deaths by the day. By the start of August, while the rest of Europe is likely to be thriving and getting on with life; we will only have moved into stage 4 over here. It’s highly likely our new cases could be very little and deaths little if none at all. If this is the case, how are we as a country going to justify 17% unemployment, the country still in mass shutdown and extremely bleak times ahead?

It’s good to have a road map and I’m thankful that we do. But come July/August if the rest of Europe has gotten a good handle on this and we’re all still over here on the dole and not allowed to see our families, many people won’t comply with that, especially if the numbers are manageable.

I reckon by the end of June the pressure will be so great on the government that they will have to open everything up much sooner.

The numbers are already very good and will only get better. Community transmission may rise when restrictions are lifted but I really wish someone asked Leo where he's getting his statistics from indicating ICUs would be overrun in a matter of days. That to me was a disgraceful thing to say and nobody in the media questioned it.

Ginger n Lemon

storker wrote: »

I didn't know they gave Nobel prizes for hyperbole.


(Actually his Nobel prize was for chemistry - he's neither a doctor nor a virologist.)


.

This made my day I have a funny feeling if Einstein told us that lockdown is a terrible idea, we would still have you coming here and dismissing him cus he is neither a doctor nor a virologist

NIMAN

It's a little jarring to hear about Italy and Spain, 2 countries absolutely slaughtered by the virus, opening up yet it'll be mid August before we are even anywhere near open.

The level of damage that can be done to our nation economically between now and then could be immense.