How will schools be able to go back in September?

khalessi

Yosef Stocky Backspace wrote: »

I think it's unnatural and upsetting to see tbh, and worse than than no school. I certainly wouldn't like to be involved in it, or for any of my young relatives to be in that environment. Personally, I wouldn't be sending a child back to that. Those who believe the social side is of such importance may choose it, and that is a big part of primary education. I think it looks like a totally unrealistic and inefficient model to manage post primary education, and I would say the overwhelming majority of post primary students would benefit far more from properly resourced online teaching.

Very different normal for thiem as there was no social side all kept away from one another

WAW

I think all those restrictions, hourly handwashing, lines, distancing,masks are horrible. Covid 19 is not the only bug. Kids needs to.mix properly get dirty, pick up bugs and develop a healthy immune system. Despite some people's obsession with a vaccine for Covid, a strong immune system is the absolute best defence mechanism because viruses change. Whilst hygiene is important, apart from the use of regular soap, many of those cleaning products contain ingredients which have been reliably shown to exacerbate allergies and respiratory conditions. So, we need a longer term and wider view about health, rather than simply focusing on containing the spread of Covid 19.

Ray Donovan

Birdy wrote: »

He didn't deny what Varadkar said.

Varadkar said it would reflect bad on us as a country if we were the last to open our schools.

And that's Leo in a nutshell. More worried about the image a decision portrays rather than the decision itself.

kandr10

WAW wrote: »

I think all those restrictions, hourly handwashing, lines, distancing,masks are horrible. Covid 19 is not the only bug. Kids needs to.mix properly get dirty, pick up bugs and develop a healthy immune system. Despite some people's obsession with a vaccine for Covid, a strong immune system is the absolute best defence mechanism because viruses change. Whilst hygiene is important, apart from the use of regular soap, many of those cleaning products contain ingredients which have been reliably shown to exacerbate allergies and respiratory conditions. So, we need a longer term and wider view about health, rather than simply focusing on containing the spread of Covid 19.

This has occurred to me. Kids would surely be less likely to pick up colds and stuff - the kind of thing that helps build them up. When they do start mixing properly various illnesses would spread like wildfire. I guess that’s the price for trying to protect from covid which is a virus we just don’t know enough about at the moment.

For anyone worried about it being unnatural to be back at school with those restrictions - I’d say it’d be only one or two days per week anyway if numbers have to be as small as they are int he pics and videos shown. I guess that would make it easier for kids to cope.

I agree with poster above that bigger investment in provision of online learning would be hugely beneficial.

Nermal

Lyle wrote: »

I would think that the above article about that Kawasaki explosion in NY almost totally negates the Australian study.

Scaremongering. Shame on you.

Shybride2016

Yosef Stocky Backspace wrote: »

I think it's unnatural and upsetting to see tbh, and worse than than no school. I certainly wouldn't like to be involved in it, or for any of my young relatives to be in that environment. Personally, I wouldn't be sending a child back to that. Those who believe the social side is of such importance may choose it, and that is a big part of primary education. I think it looks like a totally unrealistic and inefficient model to manage post primary education, and I would say the overwhelming majority of post primary students would benefit far more from properly resourced online teaching.

I’m glad I’m not the only one upset by the videos, the French report in particular. My heart sank watching it. No physical contact between the teachers and children - it’s instinctive for teachers to hold their hand out to the children coming in.
How is sitting in a socially distant square during break time enhancing any play or social skills?

Grim and if this is the way forward, Childrens preschool and school experiences are going to be completely unrecognisable.

iamwhoiam

Its only two months since our schools closed and so much has happened since . Three months is a long time away and lots can happen until then . Things change weekly so who knows how September will look . But its three months to plan and prepare and get ready . So that is a huge head start and lets hope its all in place for the kids by then . They deserve that from us all

jrosen

Kids are already mixing and ive seen it on the increase in the last couple of weeks were i live. No distancing. This time next week there will be thousands more out playing and mixing.
It seems pretty pointless to expect social distancing in schools when its not happening outside of school. Parents will be back to work. Those who work with the public will be back working with the public. Retail will be open, sports back.

Literally in every other aspect of life people will be mixing.

iamwhoiam

Yosef Stocky Backspace wrote: »

I think it's unnatural and upsetting to see tbh, and worse than than no school. I certainly wouldn't like to be involved in it, or for any of my young relatives to be in that environment. Personally, I wouldn't be sending a child back to that. Those who believe the social side is of such importance may choose it, and that is a big part of primary education. I think it looks like a totally unrealistic and inefficient model to manage post primary education, and I would say the overwhelming majority of post primary students would benefit far more from properly resourced online teaching.

It is unnatural and it is upsetting . To see my grandchildren from outside the gate and wave to them is unnatural too . It upsets me but then I realised its the best I got right now so I smile and wave and enjoy what I get . I can’t wait to hug them and sit with them and fill their bowls with strawberries and ice cream and sit at the table with them . But I can’t and they can’t so we compromise and play tennis at 4 metres apart
My point is that we take what we get right now and despite it being unnatural its better than nothing
Lets all hope it gets back to natural and our kids can hug their grandparents and sit in school and be kids again . Meantime we do what we have to do to keep them safe and get them through it

r93kaey5p2izun

iamwhoiam wrote: »

It is unnatural and it is upsetting . To see my grandchildren from outside the gate and wave to them is unnatural too . It upsets me but then I realised its the best I got right now so I smile and wave and enjoy what I get . I can’t wait to hug them and sit with them and fill their bowls with strawberries and ice cream and sit at the table with them . But I can’t and they can’t so we compromise and play tennis at 4 metres apart
My point is that we take what we get right now and despite it being unnatural its better than nothing
Lets all hope it gets back to natural and our kids can hug their grandparents and sit in school and be kids again . Meantime we do what we have to do to keep them safe and get them through it

If you believe the environment in those videos is better than online teaching you're entitled to that opinion. I don't believe it is and I would have no part in such a set up. Of course we all hope things can return to closer to normal sooner rather than later - that goes with without saying. We all have to compromise, as we have been doing for months. But I would rather not take what's on show in those videos for me or my family. I would look at every alternative first. Certainly I would not be willing to do any teaching work while that's the set up.

iamwhoiam

Yosef Stocky Backspace wrote: »

If you believe the environment in those videos is better than online teaching you're entitled to that opinion. I don't believe it is and I would have no part in such a set up. Of course we on all hope things can return to closer to normal sooner rather than late - that goes with without saying. We all have to compromise, as we have been doing for months. But I would rather not take what's on show in those videos for me or my family. I would look at every alternative first. Certainly I would not be willing to do any teaching work while that's the set up.

Why so hostile with me . I was actually trying to comfort you a little but forget it.
I have nursed kids battling cancer and burns and schooled in an unnatural environment but they seem to accept it and enjoy it as its a distraction from reality . Kids are very adaptable thankfully
I am done with this thread its too hostile

r93kaey5p2izun

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Why so hostile with me . I was actually trying to comfort you a little but forget it
I am done with this thread its too hostile

There is absolutely no hostility in my post. I have no idea what you are on about?! I gave my opinion which differs from yours, nothing more. I respect your opinion, as I said.

iamwhoiam

Yosef Stocky Backspace wrote: »

There is absolutely no hostility in my post. I have no idea what you are on about?! I gave my opinion which differs from yours, nothing more. I respect your opinion, as I said.

Fair enough , it seemed hostile to me but you must know it wasn’t intended .
I have nursed many kids who are incredible in how they adapt to their situations. Kids surprise us all sometimes in how they can adjust far better than us adults .
My brother in law often spoke of school during the war in a large city in Europe . They dodged bombs and falling buildings and sometimes had no food but they went to school to distract themselves and actually enjoyed it . They had no windows sometimes , no desks another but they somehow managed and lived to tell the tale . Kids are incredible for accepting a situation and going with it

Higgins5473

jrosen wrote: »

Kids are already mixing and ive seen it on the increase in the last couple of weeks were i live. No distancing. This time next week there will be thousands more out playing and mixing.
It seems pretty pointless to expect social distancing in schools when its not happening outside of school. Parents will be back to work. Those who work with the public will be back working with the public. Retail will be open, sports back.

Literally in every other aspect of life people will be mixing.

I agree, at the end of the day we are animals that need close interaction, contact, connection, particularly children. All of this is just instinct. That said, everything is about trying to limit contagion so as not let it turn into a free for all. Some children and adults will do their best, some won't. The some that do will limit the spread, just a bit.

BonsaiKitten

You know looking at this from an outsiders point of view, I really can't see any hostility in those posts. This is the internet after all. It's easy to misinterpret tone when all we have to go on is text.

I don't think the reopening of Irish schools will look like those videos. I just don't see how it's practical to do that. It is interesting though to look at how other countries are handling the situation.

kandr10

jrosen wrote: »

Kids are already mixing and ive seen it on the increase in the last couple of weeks were i live. No distancing. This time next week there will be thousands more out playing and mixing.
It seems pretty pointless to expect social distancing in schools when its not happening outside of school. Parents will be back to work. Those who work with the public will be back working with the public. Retail will be open, sports back.

Literally in every other aspect of life people will be mixing.

Some parents will be back at work - retail, tradesmen (trades people I should say) for example. However a lot of people I know who work in offices (friends and family) have been told they are encouraged to work from home most likely beyond September. To ensure social distancing, the capacity of one floor of a building will have to be reduced to about a fifth of what’s normal. Priority would be given to people who absolutely have to be onsite. Twitter announced that they’d be looking into wfh as a permanent arrangement since it’s worked out. I’d be interested to know what proportion of the working population will actually return to work by September. I don’t think it’ll be the whole of society mixing as normal though.

irishproduce

jrosen wrote: »

I think its quite a simple cost effective solution tbh. A bunch of face cloths cost next to nothing. Sending a fresh one every day or even every second day for use by each student sounds like a win win to me.

If a parent is going to neglect to clean their childs hand towel then be it on them.

Are you joking?
There are kids who, at 6 years of age, have to dress themselves in the morning while mom and or dad are high or drunk or hungover. Then get ready to be greeted by their social worker who has some fruit or snack for them to get them to school. The child wouldn't be fed otherwise.
That is at the extreme end but there are all sorts of complete and utter dysfunction all the way up to that. So there are a lot of kids who will see a clean cloth as the least of their sad little worries unfortunately.

Mrsmum

I think, rather than staggering times in school in order to facilitate social distancing it would be much better to move some classes, most likely the senior classes, out of their school altogether. Use their classrooms to spread out the junior classes with volunteers if need be supervising them while their teacher goes between rooms teaching, explaining and setting work for the students. The older classes meanwhile are in hotel ballrooms, community halls or even adapted local church if nothing else available. If you stagger young children for days in school and days out of school, immediate problem for some teachers who may have childcare issues themselves if children are at home some days in the week.

khalessi

Mrsmum wrote: »

I think, rather than staggering times in school in order to facilitate social distancing it would be much better to move some classes, most likely the senior classes, out of their school altogether. Use their classrooms to spread out the junior classes with volunteers if need be supervising them while their teacher goes between rooms teaching, explaining and setting work for the students. The older classes meanwhile are in hotel ballrooms, community halls or even adapted local church if nothing else available. If you stagger young children for days in school and days out of school, immediate problem for some teachers who may have childcare issues themselves if children are at home some days in the week.

If it isnt staggered drop off and collection could be a nightmare. There are just under 1000 kids in my school and if you move 5th and 6th elsewhere that is still about 750 children.

I reckon we are going to be given guidelines that sound lovely to media but the ins and outs of them will be left to schools to sort out with no extra budget for cleaning etc.

Mrsmum

khalessi wrote: »

If it isnt staggered drop off and collection could be a nightmare. There are just under 1000 kids in my school and if you move 5th and 6th elsewhere that is still about 750 children.

I reckon we are going to be given guidelines that sound lovely to media but the ins and outs of them will be left to schools to sort out with no extra budget for cleaning etc.

By staggering I really meant half the class in for Mon, Tues and half in for Thurs Fri. That would mean some teachers' own children would be at home part of the week which might cause childcare issues for teachers we are expecting to be at work all week.
I understand staggering drop offs and collections but again if people have children at different schools, that in itself could be a nightmare.

khalessi

Mrsmum wrote: »

By staggering I really meant half the class in for Mon, Tues and half in for Thurs Fri. That would mean some teachers' own children would be at home part of the week which might cause childcare issues for teachers we are expecting to be at work all week.
I understand staggering drop offs and collections but again if people have children at different schools, that in itself could be a nightmare.

Only one teacher out of 70, in my school has her kids in the school the rest all go to other schools. Will be interesting times.

Mrsmum

khalessi wrote: »

Only one teacher out of 70, in my school has her kids in the school the rest all go to other schools. Will be interesting times.

Exactly.

jrosen

Staggering start and end times is a good suggestion. But come September parents will be back to work. The logistics of working with school going kids is already a hurdle for working parents. Thats when we have a standard school week. This is going to be impossible for some families.

kandr10

Mrsmum wrote: »

I think, rather than staggering times in school in order to facilitate social distancing it would be much better to move some classes, most likely the senior classes, out of their school altogether. Use their classrooms to spread out the junior classes with volunteers if need be supervising them while their teacher goes between rooms teaching, explaining and setting work for the students. The older classes meanwhile are in hotel ballrooms, community halls or even adapted local church if nothing else available. If you stagger young children for days in school and days out of school, immediate problem for some teachers who may have childcare issues themselves if children are at home some days in the week.

I get where you’re coming from but in order to leave younger kids in the school, spread out with enough distance between them, you’d be talking about having 5-6 kids per class in a lot cases. Therefore you’d need 5-6 rooms to accommodate a class of 30. Even say best case scenario you got ten per room, In my school that would mean 1 class occupying 3 rooms, meaning a only 5 classes could be spread across the building. That would leave 10 classes to be accommodated elsewhere. We’re a fairly small school.

In my husbands place they’re reducing the capacity of large meeting rooms from 100 down to 4 and smaller ones from 15 down to 2 max. Using that as a model, you can imagine how few you’d get into a gaa hall or hotel conference room while maintaining social distancing.

Not only that, we’re in a city and have about 8 primary schools within a 3km radius (ridiculous as that is!) so accommodating all of those schools in the same way with extra space would be hard since they’d all be faced with similar problems. That’s not to mention secondary schools which would be a total nightmare to split.

In theory it’s a good idea, but in practice the numbers are too difficult to juggle to have full attendance, in my opinion, based on my limited experience.

r93kaey5p2izun

Yes, in Lucan for example, there is approx 15 primary schools. There is certainly no accommodation available for spreading out half of each school in the area! There is 1 GAA club and 3 churches.

Mrsmum

Yosef Stocky Backspace wrote: »

Yes, in Lucan for example, there is approx 15 primary schools. There is certainly no accommodation available for spreading out half of each school in the area! There is 1 GAA club and 3 churches.

I'm only half joking when I suggest couple of big marquees in the school or church carparks ??? I mean they will have to be spread out somewhere in order to go back. Otherwise lots of parents can't go back to work either.

r93kaey5p2izun

Mrsmum wrote: »

I'm only half joking when I suggest couple of big marquees in the school or church carparks ??? I mean they will have to be spread out somewhere in order to go back. Otherwise lots of parents can't go back to work either.

Most of the schools have little or no space around them. In one case 4 schools share the same small and cramped campus. Maybe in the park?!

kandr10

Mrsmum wrote: »

I'm only half joking when I suggest couple of big marquees in the school or church carparks ??? I mean they will have to be spread out somewhere in order to go back. Otherwise lots of parents can't go back to work either.

There’s a lot of people won’t be going back to work also for similar reasons though. Obviously a lot will go back to work and will need childcare, teachers included. After the shambles that was made of provisions for frontline staff, it’s hard to see how this issue will be solved. This situation is really just highlighting all the cracks that existed in childcare provision generally in the country. It’s a tricky one.

kandr10

Mrsmum wrote: »

I'm only half joking when I suggest couple of big marquees in the school or church carparks ??? I mean they will have to be spread out somewhere in order to go back. Otherwise lots of parents can't go back to work either.

There’s a lot of people won’t be going back to work also for similar reasons though. Obviously a lot will go back to work and will need childcare, teachers included. After the shambles that was made of provisions for frontline staff, it’s hard to see how this issue will be solved. This situation is really just highlighting all the cracks that existed in childcare provision generally in the country. It’s a tricky one.

Glenbhoy

jrosen wrote: »

Staggering start and end times is a good suggestion. But come September parents will be back to work. The logistics of working with school going kids is already a hurdle for working parents. Thats when we have a standard school week. This is going to be impossible for some families.

If staggering is required, it must be done on a surname basis to ensure that kids from the same family are at school on the same day. That minimises trips for drop off and collection and facilitates parents ability to return to work as far as possible.