How will schools be able to go back in September?

is_that_so

History Queen wrote: »

Teachers wanted the LC to go ahead. They didn't want predicted grades

As someone pointed out to me, Spain postponed theirs for a few weeks then put them all in really big halls, with SD and with masks on and got it done.

is_that_so

alroley wrote: »

Teachers were the only ones wanting it to go ahead.

A sizeable minority of students did as well, especially the ones who were studying subjects on their own ,which they now can't get an assessed grade for.

Bobtheman

alroley wrote: »

Teachers were the only ones wanting it to go ahead.

Really? Can you put up any evidence for this ? I haven't read or heard any union rep calling for it. At any time. Or any teacher.
As I said to your moronic companion- the whole system is geared up for written exams. Not predictive grading.

Most teachers not involved in the normal system. Normal written LC. What idiot would therefore think most teachers would want predictive grading? Which meant they had to do extra work for free?!

You are just talking through your hole .
It should have been done the normal way.
I'm not sure you ever did a leaving but it's clear you don't have any idea about the mechanics of the leaving cert.

HerrKuehn

Bobtheman wrote: »

Really? Can you put up any evidence for this ? I haven't read or heard any union rep calling for it. At any time. Or any teacher.
As I said to your moronic companion- the whole system is geared up for written exams. Not predictive grading.

Most teachers not involved in the normal system. Normal written LC. What idiot would therefore think most teachers would want predictive grading? Which meant they had to do extra work for free?!

You are just talking through your hole .
It should have been done the normal way.
I'm not sure you ever did a leaving but it's clear you don't have any idea about the mechanics of the leaving cert.

Might want to calm down a bit and read the comment again

Bobtheman

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Might want to calm down a bit and read the comment again

My apologies. My comments were meant for Wrangler

wirelessdude01

wrangler wrote: »

They could have organised the LC if they were bothered

This I'm.looking forward to. How could the teachers have done so? Who do you think organises them?

ldy4mxonucwsq6

GazzaL wrote: »

At what point do we consider establishing hedge schools?

Not a bad idea and I know a few parents making their own plans (including myself) as a contingency just in case the inevitable infighting between the DOE and unions stalls things.

Three of our local schools here have been open the last couple of days so there's definitely local activity and planning happening here anyway.

Murple

timmy_mallet wrote: »

We've already paid our voluntary contrib., bought the uniform and are ordering books. This is on the back of 1 (one) email from the school, which in summary said "we have no idea what is happening, but you need to give us money, thanks."

Contrast that with another child who is starting montessori. Been to the school to meet teachers. Seen classroom. Have a plan for start on agreed start date. Have plan for PPE, pods, cleaning etc. The DOE and schools cannot seem to work together to solve a problem private companies are solving daily, schools in other jurisdictions are solving, it's nothing short of utter ineptitude, unwillingness, risk aversion and ar$e covering from all stakeholders.

€75 million package for crèches, childminders, preschools was announced in June. €0 additional funding announced for primary or secondary schools.
Also, considering the two educational settings you are referring to:
How many children go to the school and how many go to the Montessori?
How many adults work in each place?
Regarding pick ups and drop offs, how many people are converging on the place at the same time?
How many children are assigned to each adult in each place?
What is the age range of the children attending each place?
What is the overall size of each building- number of rooms, toilet facilities etc?

We share a site with a Montessori. The Montessori has 20 children maximum and 2-3 adults. They have 2 rooms and share 3 toilets and basins. They run for 3 and a half hours per day. About half are collected at after the ECCE 3 hours. All children are aged 3-5. All are delivered by hand to the door and collected by hand from the door.
We have 450+ children with 16 class teachers and 5 SNA. Age range of children is 4-12. There are 16 classrooms, several of which are interconnecting. 5 of the rooms have ensuite toilets. The other 11 share 4 toilet blocks, each of which have a maximum of 3 wash hand basins (approx 90 children sharing 3 basins in places). Most classrooms are barely big enough for children to sit elbow to elbow with just about enough room for the teacher to squeeze sideways through the spaces. There are also 3 very small rooms for 4 SET, which just about fit a desk or two and some chairs. At 1:30 pm, approx 110 children go home. At 2:30, the other 340 or so go home. Collections are a mix of parents, grandparents, minders, afterschools, children directly to onsite after school activities, children home on their own etc. There are 3 exit doors so you can imagine the number of children on corridors at home time. A part time caretaker who works primarily outside school hours and cleaners who work in the evenings.

There are far more organisational issues to consider with a primary school than there is in a preschool setting. There are far more organisational issues to consider in secondary than in primary.
Its the difference between arranging a dinner party in your house for a few friends and arranging a wedding reception for several hundred.

FishOnABike

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hearing the news about vaccines in progress of mass production I have the gut feeling that we may be able to get our schools open at least some time in the autumn. It may even happen that the school year is extended further into the summer as a once off to compensate for all schooling lost, if it can be negotiated with the unions. I was really uplifted listening to the news this morning hearing that Phase 2 has been successful. Phase 3 will catch out the less common side effects, but hopefully the vaccine proves safe for the majority. I particularly like that there is a bit of pain in the arm and a touch of fever as this usually means it has taken effect, just like the flu vaccine. Even if it is not 100% effective in preventing Covid, it may render it to being a minor illness that won't much disrupt life and that's all we need really.

It would make me very hopeful that we will be back to some level of normality for 2021/2022 but I'm not expecting anything like a normal academic year for any 1st, 2nd or 3rd level education for this year.

All going well with phase 3 trials I can't see it being any sooner than the end of this year before volume production and distribution can start to roll out.

I'd guess healthcare workers and vulnerable sectors will be first in line for vaccines. The general population and achieving the 70% plus vaccination rate for herd immunity to be effective will take some time after that.

My son's uni has indicated 1 day per week on campus with the remainder delivered online. My daughter's 2nd level school has indicated it expects to possibly deliver some of the curriculum online but it isn't fully determined yet. I think that's what can be realistically expected for the coming year.

Bobtheman

To be honest I think we will just be asked to plough ahead. Teachers. Asking kids of any age to be socially distant will be almost impossible.

Let's pray that the Oxford vaccine to be rolled out soon.
Anybody who knows how inefficient the department is won't have any faith in them devising a workable plan.
Anyway I'd leave the trolls like WRANGLER to their delusions.
They must miss the pub where such nonsense passes as intellectualism.

combat14

lets hope safe properly tested vaccine comes soon:

Winter Temperatures make Corona virus worse say researchers who believe disease may re-emerge in cold weather...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/winter-temperatures-make-coronavirus-worse-18634273.amp

wrangler

Bobtheman wrote: »

To be honest I think we will just be asked to plough ahead. Teachers. Asking kids of any age to be socially distant will be almost impossible.

Let's pray that the Oxford vaccine to be rolled out soon.
Anybody who knows how inefficient the department is won't have any faith in them devising a workable plan.
Anyway I'd leave the trolls like WRANGLER to their delusions.
They must miss the pub where such nonsense passes as intellectualism.

I'm a realist, the parents of Ireland will judge teachers harshly if they don't come up with a workable solution after six months doing nothing

Birdy

wrangler wrote: »

I'm a realist, the parents of Ireland will judge teachers harshly if they don't come up with a workable solution after six months doing nothing

Teachers work under the guidance of their Principal who works under the guidance of the DES.

The Education system will be exposed for what it is this winter and the blame won't be at the doors of teachers and schools.

Leftwaffe

wrangler wrote: »

I'm a realist, the parents of Ireland will judge teachers harshly if they don't come up with a workable solution after six months doing nothing

I've never been asked to come up with any workable solution since school closure. That is left with the dept and management in schools Had I been asked I would have participated gladly. You are covering an awful lot of people with that statement who simply have no involvement in the process.

6 months of 'doing nothing'. You just have to laugh

Blondini

wrangler wrote: »

I'm a realist, the parents of Ireland will judge teachers harshly if they don't come up with a workable solution after six months doing nothing

Judged harshly.. oooooh I'm positively quaking in my overpaid underworked crocodile skin boots...

deiseindublin

I'm really glad I don't have a few of the numbskulls here from this thread in my classroom. I'd hate to have to repeat the same thing over and over and have them still not understand, or maybe choose not to.

TEACHERS HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO COME UP WITH A SOLUTION, TEACHERS TEACH, DES gives policy.

frillyleaf

wrangler wrote: »

I'm a realist, the parents of Ireland will judge teachers harshly if they don't come up with a workable solution after six months doing nothing

It’s not up to the teachers to come up with a workable solution

frillyleaf

Birdy wrote: »

Teachers work under the guidance of their Principal who works under the guidance of the DES.

The Education system will be exposed for what it is this winter and the blame won't be at the doors of teachers and schools.

The lack of investment and ‘temporary’ schools with lack of space could very well be an issue for some schools reopening.

Blondini

deiseindublin wrote: »

I'm really glad I don't have a few of the numbskulls here from this thread in my classroom. I'd hate to have to repeat the same thing over and over and have them still not understand, or maybe choose not to.

TEACHERS HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO COME UP WITH A SOLUTION, TEACHERS TEACH, DES gives policy.

Summer report for those users:
Foundation level recommended.

iamwhoiam

wrangler wrote: »

I'm a realist, the parents of Ireland will judge teachers harshly if they don't come up with a workable solution after six months doing nothing

Look , I am not a teacher but would you blame nurses if the HSE didn’t pay for an MRI scanner ? Or blame nurses if they had no hand sanitizer ? Surely you must know that its not teachers or nurses who should take the flak for the failings of management and Deptarments ? Once the Department gives guidance and funds to implement that guidance then we need the teachers to be flexable and move out of their comfort zones and I am sure the vast majority will do just that once they are given that guidance .
Yes the parents and pupils need teachers to teach but first we must all support them in getting what is needed from the Department of Education .
If

ldy4mxonucwsq6

deiseindublin wrote: »

I'm really glad I don't have a few of the numbskulls here from this thread in my classroom. I'd hate to have to repeat the same thing over and over and have them still not understand, or maybe choose not to.

TEACHERS HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO COME UP WITH A SOLUTION, TEACHERS TEACH, DES gives policy.

Healthy debate doesn't mean you personally have to repeat something over and over, that's just your way of doing things.

Just because you might not agree with someone's views doesn't make them a 'numbskull' as you eloquently put it, that's entirely your opinion (which you are entitled to do long as you know everyone else is also entitled to theirs).

Yes teachers teach, but they also follow DOE policy and according to some posters here they cannot do their job without the policy so they really go hand in hand.

If DOE had any sense it would have engaged large numbers of teachers in any policymaking.
As is often the case, and many companies recognise the fact, that it's the people on the ground who can give a first hand insight into what works and what doesn't.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Blondini wrote: »

Summer report for those users:
Foundation level recommended.

Slagging people's capability while also insulting foundation level students.

And you wonder why teachers sometimes get a bad rap?

Blondini

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Slagging people's capability while also insulting foundation level students.

And you wonder why teachers sometimes get a bad rap?

Never change Fringey, please never change :pac:

wrangler

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Healthy debate doesn't mean you personally have to repeat something over and over, that's just your way of doing things.

Just because you might not agree with someone's views doesn't make them a 'numbskull' as you eloquently put it, that's entirely your opinion (which you are entitled to do long as you know everyone else is also entitled to theirs).

Yes teachers teach, but they also follow DOE policy and according to some posters here they cannot do their job without the policy so they really go hand in hand.

If DOE had any sense it would have engaged large numbers of teachers in any policymaking.
As is often the case, and many companies recognise the fact, that it's the people on the ground who can give a first hand insight into what works and what doesn't.

That's the way it is in the real world anyway, Desk drivers are poor managers compared to those with relevant experience.

History Queen

wrangler wrote: »

I'm a realist, the parents of Ireland will judge teachers harshly if they don't come up with a workable solution after six months doing nothing

What teacher has done nothing for 6 months?

Edit: never mind actually, sorry I responded to such low level trolling

iamwhoiam

Face shields are acceptable now on public transport so that might be a possibility for teachers too .


https://www.thejournal.ie/face-shields-acceptable-5155121-Jul2020/

inatissy

I just don't understand this thread. It should just be renamed as a teacher bashing thread.

Instead of bashing them, may be spend your energy looking at solutions. Really is just disheartening seeing people devout so much time to Learn from Israel's mistakes. They were close to 29% of infections coming from education settings. 0.1 % were from barbers and beauty salons.

Will students temperature be taken every day or twice a day? More staff will be needed to monitor this, it would be a huge task and teachers have roles of already monitoring corridors, breakfast club, locker rooms etc.. Can parents be trusted not to send kids with temperature to school, hence check it twice as they probably will give paracetamol in the morning.

Will teachers have to disinfect desks after each class as this could be 9 times a day and about 30 desks. Spray needs to be left on for at least 5 minutes to be effective. Can students queue and wait outside during this, in my experience no as corridors are too tight.

Can teachers work from behind a persplex screen and maintain classroom management and check on students understanding and work? Is this any better than students watching from their homes?

Can the Department provide masks for all students and be willing to pay for them?

How will practical classes work, sharing equipment as students usually work in groups and students needing to see up close how equipment works would need to interact with the teachers. Equipment can be too expensive to buy more than one set.

Or can teachers be like hairdressers and take one student at a time. Please stop comparing jobs, they are all different.

Highlight problems and suggest solutions.

iamwhoiam

inatissy wrote: »

I just don't understand this thread. It should just be renamed as a teacher bashing thread.

Instead of bashing them, may be spend your energy looking at solutions. Really is just disheartening seeing people devout so much time to Learn from Israel's mistakes. They were close to 29% of infections coming from education settings. 0.1 % were from barbers and beauty salons.

Will students temperature be taken every day or twice a day? More staff will be needed to monitor this, it would be a huge task and teachers have roles of already monitoring corridors, breakfast club, locker rooms etc.. Can parents be trusted not to send kids with temperature to school, hence check it twice as they probably will give paracetamol in the morning.

Will teachers have to disinfect desks after each class as this could be 9 times a day and about 30 desks. Spray needs to be left on for at least 5 minutes to be effective. Can students queue and wait outside during this, in my experience no as corridors are too tight.

Can teachers work from behind a persplex screen and maintain classroom management and check on students understanding and work? Is this any better than students watching from their homes?

Can the Department provide masks for all students and be willing to pay for them?

How will practical classes work, sharing equipment as students usually work in groups and students needing to see up close how equipment works would need to interact with the teachers. Equipment can be too expensive to buy more than one set.

Or can teachers be like hairdressers and take one student at a time. Please stop comparing jobs, they are all different.

Highlight problems and suggest solutions.

I agree with most of your post but while asking people to stop slagging off teachers you need to be careful not to slag off parents
The vast majority of parents I know can be trusted not to send a child with a temp to school . So Yes , parents in the whole can be trusted , a small majority maybe not
We need to be careful not to lump all parents into one group just as we need to be careful not to lump all teachers into one group

deiseindublin

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Healthy debate doesn't mean you personally have to repeat something over and over

I'm presuming you won't see the irony in YOU of all posters writing that, but thanks for the laugh.

Mrsmum

Would it help at all in these exceptional times to allow 5th and 6th years do five rather than seven subjects. (I think I'm right in saying our students study more subjects than in other countries.)They could all choose their best five and that would mean less students in at least some, if not all, classrooms, therefore safer for everyone, shorter school day also. And obviously the LC exam would be based on that ??