How will schools be able to go back in September?

Blondini · 21-07-2020 11:14AM

Hubertj wrote: »

only in Ireland do the teachers and unions looks for excuses not to return to work. Shameful behaviour from unions and has been from the very start - confrontational instead of collaborative. It all started when the leaving cert was cancelled and the 1 of the unions immediately said they would not cooperate. Really says it all about their attitude.

I would add to that the total failure of the Dept of Education but can you really expect anything else from overpaid and underworked civil servants. Showed a lack of competence and ability. It doesnt really matter who is in government or who the Minister is.

Oooooh a new ill-informed bitter ranter enters the thread! How exciting!

Tell us more oh wise one!

Hubertj · 21-07-2020 11:22AM

Blondini wrote: »

Oooooh a new ill-informed bitter ranter enters the thread! How exciting!

Tell us more oh wise one!

not bitter at all. I am able to read and watch the various Dail committees. I can see the performance of the unions and civil servants. I am also entitled to provide my opinion the same way so many on this thread can.

I have no problem with teachers in general. I have no issue with how many holidays they get.

redmgar · 21-07-2020 11:24AM

Hubertj wrote: »

only in Ireland do the teachers and unions looks for excuses not to return to work. Shameful behaviour from unions and has been from the very start - confrontational instead of collaborative. It all started when the leaving cert was cancelled and the 1 of the unions immediately said they would not cooperate. Really says it all about their attitude.

I would add to that the total failure of the Dept of Education but can you really expect anything else from overpaid and underworked civil servants. Showed a lack of competence and ability. It doesnt really matter who is in government or who the Minister is.

you are factually incorrect.

Hubertj · 21-07-2020 11:26AM

redmgar wrote: »

you are factually incorrect.

please do enlighten me. If i am incorrect i will gladly withdraw my comments and apologise.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 21-07-2020 11:30AM

Hubertj wrote: »

only in Ireland do the teachers and unions looks for excuses not to return to work. Shameful behaviour from unions and has been from the very start - confrontational instead of collaborative. It all started when the leaving cert was cancelled and the 1 of the unions immediately said they would not cooperate. Really says it all about their attitude.

I would add to that the total failure of the Dept of Education but can you really expect anything else from overpaid and underworked civil servants. Showed a lack of competence and ability. It doesnt really matter who is in government or who the Minister is.

Some of them do seem to be so out of touch with reality but it's to be expected. Like I said, it's endemic and if the education sector was a private company it would have been liquidated years ago.

The whole approach to education needs to change, its really not fit for purpose when you see even teachers complaining about how much of a mess the set up is and how schools are not able to run themselves in any way independently or make decisions for themselves.

The exception here would be third level institutions who seem to be fairly on the ball and most students already know what their year will look like for 20/21.

Children on the other hand continue to be let down.

If nothing else the pandemic will have definitely opened a few eyes and it has certainly seperated the men from the boys.

redmgar · 21-07-2020 11:33AM

Hubertj wrote: »

please do enlighten me. If i am incorrect i will gladly withdraw my comments and apologise.

Teachers are public servants rather than civil servants.

(just realised you might have been talking about department of education)

Hubertj · 21-07-2020 11:36AM

redmgar wrote: »

Teachers are public servants rather than civil servants.

(just realised you might have been talking about department of education)

yes - i was talking about the Dept of Education when referring to civil servants. I think teachers have been badly let down by the performance of their unions.

wrangler · 21-07-2020 11:39AM

Hubertj wrote: »

not bitter at all. I am able to read and watch the various Dail committees. I can see the performance of the unions and civil servants. I am also entitled to provide my opinion the same way so many on this thread can.

I have no problem with teachers in general. I have no issue with how many holidays they get.

I heard the civil servants union on the radio this morning looking for more money already.
A lot of families in the private sector will be on reduced income due to covid. There'll be enough of an increase in taxes without civil public service costing more. Civil/public service unions obviously haven't figured out where their salaries originates from yet

History Queen · 21-07-2020 11:42AM

Hubertj wrote: »

only in Ireland do the teachers and unions looks for excuses not to return to work. Shameful behaviour from unions and has been from the very start - confrontational instead of collaborative. It all started when the leaving cert was cancelled and the 1 of the unions immediately said they would not cooperate. Really says it all about their attitude.

I would add to that the total failure of the Dept of Education but can you really expect anything else from overpaid and underworked civil servants. Showed a lack of competence and ability. It doesnt really matter who is in government or who the Minister is.

You have been corrected on your misunderstanding re the Leaving Certificate already. Stop spouting nonsense. As for the rest of your post what sort of perverse satisfaction do you get from baseless accusations?

History Queen · 21-07-2020 11:44AM

Hubertj wrote: »

not bitter at all. I am able to read and watch the various Dail committees. I can see the performance of the unions and civil servants. I am also entitled to provide my opinion the same way so many on this thread can.

I have no problem with teachers in general. I have no issue with how many holidays they get.

You might be able to read but your comprehension leaves a lot to be desired if you truly believe teachers were not going to cooperate. Wanting to wait for clarification is not the same thing.

21-07-2020 11:47AM

Hearing the news about vaccines in progress of mass production I have the gut feeling that we may be able to get our schools open at least some time in the autumn. It may even happen that the school year is extended further into the summer as a once off to compensate for all schooling lost, if it can be negotiated with the unions. I was really uplifted listening to the news this morning hearing that Phase 2 has been successful. Phase 3 will catch out the less common side effects, but hopefully the vaccine proves safe for the majority. I particularly like that there is a bit of pain in the arm and a touch of fever as this usually means it has taken effect, just like the flu vaccine. Even if it is not 100% effective in preventing Covid, it may render it to being a minor illness that won't much disrupt life and that's all we need really.

Blondini · 21-07-2020 11:51AM

wrangler wrote: »

I heard the civil servants union on the radio this morning looking for more money already.
A lot of families in the private sector will be on reduced income due to covid. There'll be enough of an increase in taxes without civil public service costing more. Civil/public service unions obviously haven't figured out where their salaries originates from yet

This is fun. 13 months holidays a year, pay rises, danger money ... and now we get to hear working class hero sob stories!

Life is good.

HerrKuehn · 21-07-2020 11:59AM

Blondini wrote: »

This is fun. 13 months holidays a year, pay rises, danger money ... and now we get to hear working class hero sob stories!

Life is good.

Do you think being around children all the time can make someone more childish?

Hubertj · 21-07-2020 12:02PM

History Queen wrote: »

You have been corrected on your misunderstanding re the Leaving Certificate already. Stop spouting nonsense. As for the rest of your post what sort of perverse satisfaction do you get from baseless accusations?

Who corrected me about what on the leaving cert?

Blondini · 21-07-2020 12:04PM

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Do you think being around children all the time can make someone more childish?

It's how you engage with students. On their level. With clear and understandable language. Simplify things.

Also, it is a duty of care to intervene in bullying matters.

So, all in all, kind of like this thread? Understand?

wrangler · 21-07-2020 12:09PM

Blondini wrote: »

It's how you engage with students. On their level. With clear and understandable language. Simplify things.

Also, it is a duty of care to intervene in bullying matters.

So, all in all, kind of like this thread? Understand?

I'm looking forward to the fallout from the teachers attempts at grading Leaving Cert students. It's unlikely to be the soft option that Teachers thought it was.
They could have organised the LC if they were bothered

deiseindublin · 21-07-2020 12:19PM

wrangler wrote: »

They could have organised the LC if they were bothered

Teachers could have, after it was cancelled?

Higgins5473 · 21-07-2020 12:19PM

Hubertj wrote: »

yes - i was talking about the Dept of Education when referring to civil servants. I think teachers have been badly let down by the performance of their unions.

The narrative is that civil servants in whatever department are overpaid and underworked. Its so easy to throw this remark out without any evidence whatsoever, do you have any? Just like any job in the public or private sector you have overworked and underpaid and overpaid and underworked. Some are extremely talented, work very hard and under appreciated, the department of education is no different. Lumping everyone into one cohort of “overpaid and underworked”, is simplistic nonsense. If you take a minute to think about this, I’m sure you’ll agree.

History Queen · 21-07-2020 12:21PM

wrangler wrote: »

I'm looking forward to the fallout from the teachers attempts at grading Leaving Cert students. It's unlikely to be the soft option that Teachers thought it was.
They could have organised the LC if they were bothered

Teachers wanted the LC to go ahead. They didn't want predicted grades

Hubertj · 21-07-2020 12:40PM

History Queen wrote: »

You have been corrected on your misunderstanding re the Leaving Certificate already. Stop spouting nonsense. As for the rest of your post what sort of perverse satisfaction do you get from baseless accusations?

Who corrected me about what on the leaving cert?

Bobtheman · 21-07-2020 12:45PM

morebabies wrote: »

Except I know someone in their thirties who had post Covid-19 syndrome resulting in about 3 hospital re-admissions following a confirmed case of coronavirus, due to breathing difficulties - all the while testing negative.

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope they recover..God speed

dundalkfc10 · 21-07-2020 12:47PM

My childs meant to back school 5 weeks on Thurs. Called the school this morning as I would know the receptionist.

Her answer to, Is Thursday 28th confirmed? We have absolutely no idea, and don't expect to for a "FEW" weeks, as they are not getting told anything.

Start planning for no schools in Sept would be my guess

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 21-07-2020 12:58PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

My childs meant to back school 5 weeks on Thurs. Called the school this morning as I would know the receptionist.

Her answer to, Is Thursday 28th confirmed? We have absolutely no idea, and don't expect to for a "FEW" weeks, as they are not getting told anything.

Start planning for no schools in Sept would be my guess

One of my kids schools has confirmed a date for return (subject to change) and has issued book lists as well as making arrangements for book rental/contributions to be collected along with school uniform fittings (taking place in the school building).

While it's good to see they are making plans I'd imagine parents will be quite rightly annoyed and out of pocket if the result is a closed school in September.

They have had longer than anyone else in the country to prepare, and schools worldwide to take their lead from, excuses will not be acceptable.

redmgar · 21-07-2020 01:07PM

wrangler wrote: »

I heard the civil servants union on the radio this morning looking for more money already.
A lot of families in the private sector will be on reduced income due to covid. There'll be enough of an increase in taxes without civil public service costing more. Civil/public service unions obviously haven't figured out where their salaries originates from yet

From civil servant salaries?

dundalkfc10 · 21-07-2020 01:09PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

One of my kids schools has confirmed a date for return (subject to change) and has issued book lists as well as making arrangements for book rental/contributions to be collected along with school uniform fittings (taking place in the school building).

While it's good to see they are making plans I'd imagine parents will be quite rightly annoyed and out of pocket if the result is a closed school in September.

They have had longer than anyone else in the country to prepare, and schools worldwide to take their lead from, excuses will not be acceptable.

We had got dates and a booklist about 1 month ago.

timmy_mallet · 21-07-2020 01:09PM

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

One of my kids schools has confirmed a date for return (subject to change) and has issued book lists as well as making arrangements for book rental/contributions to be collected along with school uniform fittings (taking place in the school building).

While it's good to see they are making plans I'd imagine parents will be quite rightly annoyed and out of pocket if the result is a closed school in September.

They have had longer than anyone else in the country to prepare, and schools worldwide to take their lead from, excuses will not be acceptable.

We've already paid our voluntary contrib., bought the uniform and are ordering books. This is on the back of 1 (one) email from the school, which in summary said "we have no idea what is happening, but you need to give us money, thanks."

Contrast that with another child who is starting montessori. Been to the school to meet teachers. Seen classroom. Have a plan for start on agreed start date. Have plan for PPE, pods, cleaning etc. The DOE and schools cannot seem to work together to solve a problem private companies are solving daily, schools in other jurisdictions are solving, it's nothing short of utter ineptitude, unwillingness, risk aversion and ar$e covering from all stakeholders.

GazzaL · 21-07-2020 01:13PM

At what point do we consider establishing hedge schools?

Bobtheman · 21-07-2020 01:16PM

Hubertj wrote: »

Who corrected me about what on the leaving cert?

Anybody with half a brain. The department made that call. Most teachers are never involved in the running of the LC. Those that are - are paid extra. What moronic rationale do you now use to make the case that teachers wanted predictive grading?Whatever teacher educated you should be brought before the teaching council and flogged straight away.
No teacher was paid for predictive grading. Most thought it a bad but perhaps necessary idea . The reasons for doubting it had to do with the fact that the whole system is geared for written exams not that.

the corpo · 21-07-2020 01:20PM

I know our school has been planning for all possible scenarios, whether it's a full return/partial or full home schooling, and have put a lot of work into various plans, including blindly researching what skills will be needed to properly teach online if it comes to it.

What's maddening is that it's possibly all for nothing, if the Department turn around with an entirely different set of guidelines that will render the schools work invalid.

At this stage, I don't think anyone could argue that the schools should have been given thorough guidelines for all possible scenarios for schooling come September.

Fintan O'Toole's article compounds my fear that the Department haven't changed their outlook at all, and have firmly buried their heads in the sand...

Last Thursday, the new Minister for Education Norma Foley was in the Dáil, presenting her department’s annual estimates. Here are her own words. Read them and weep: “I should explain that the revised estimate presented today does not include any provision in relation to Covid-19 at this stage . . . it is my intention that the exceptional funding requirements of the education and skills sector for this year . . . will need to be addressed as part of the supplementary estimates process. This will allow a clear picture as to the scale of the investment needed in the sector to ensure that it is adequately funded to respond to the unprecedented challenges that currently exist in our schools . . . ”

So just last week, there was still no provision of funding guaranteed or provided. The Minister is having a private session with opposition members today, will be astonished if she's anything new to add.

alroley · 21-07-2020 01:22PM

wrangler wrote: »

I'm looking forward to the fallout from the teachers attempts at grading Leaving Cert students. It's unlikely to be the soft option that Teachers thought it was.
They could have organised the LC if they were bothered

Teachers were the only ones wanting it to go ahead.

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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