Anyone hazard a guess for when the gyms will re-open

Alf Veedersane

The whole narrative around Christmas is largely because hospitalisations due to seasonal flu start to ramp up. It's not so much about the Covid numbers being high in and of themselves. It's because they are likely to be on top of normal seasonal numbers that coincide with the annual trolley crisis, i.e. the health service is already bursting at the seams.

Though it's trying to get people to buy into it so they can have a Christmas of some description.

The ICU admissions and deaths won't be to the same degree because the age profile of the cases this time is different. But the risk is that they will spread it to the vulnerable.

As much as I would love gyms to stay open, not least because I had signed up to do a competition in mid-December, I don't think it was ever feasible because you could make the same argument about a lot of things that won't be permitted under Level 5.



But I think it's important to not throw the baby out with the bathwater now in terms of how we deal with it. If someone was changing their diet and lifestyle, you wouldn't tell them to abandon that for 6 weeks. It will be tough for a lot of people to do something themselves outside of the gym but we can get into a different mindset and develop a habit. I think a lot of what got me through the first lockdown was habit and stubbornness.

It would be better for us all to just accept that it is what it is now and start to just help each other here or in another thread and give ideas what to do with what we have. How to make the most of a shít situation because getting angry and giving out about it and just general negativity right now is not going to help anyone.

This forum has been really good at times. I know I've benefitted hugely from the input from other posters over the years. It's why I still log in. So can we try rally together at a time a lot of us will find it more difficult to continue their fitness journey over the next 6 weeks.

Black Sheep

If the hand-washing, social distancing and other ongoing measures associated with controlling covid are having any effect you would think that the normal season flu numbers should be drastically down, of course. It would be odd if they were not.

The ICU admissions and deaths won't be to the same degree because the age profile of the cases this time is different. But the risk is that they will spread it to the vulnerable.

I must admit I haven't heard what I'd consider a straight answer on the above as yet. The position seems to be that the current measures we are taking to control the rise in case numbers are linked to an expectation that there will be a lagging surge in serious hospitalisations and fatalities. This may well be what will occur, I don't want to come across as a crackpot here.

But if the lag doesn't resolve and the ICU numbers and fatalities don't rise now then there will be a discussion to be had. Because arguably it then becomes a question of how efficiently can we shield vulnerable people and care homes, once we know high case numbers in the general population actually isn't putting the health service under significant strain. If the only way we can think to protect vulnerable people and care homes is to bring national case numbers down using level 3-5 lockdowns that's grand... But seems like a very blunt instrument. It would be worth thinking about, if a more targeted approach would salvage the economy and save billions in national debt.

Black Sheep

Black Sheep wrote: »

.......................

But if the lag doesn't resolve and the ICU numbers and fatalities don't rise now then there will be a discussion to be had....................

ICU numbers and fatalities will likely not rise ........ Level 5 restrictions will undoubtedly curb the spread of the virus.

Alf Veedersane

Black Sheep wrote: »

If the hand-washing, social distancing and other ongoing measures associated with controlling covid are having any effect you would think that the normal season flu numbers should be drastically down, of course. It would be odd if they were not.



I must admit I haven't heard what I'd consider a straight answer on the above as yet. The position seems to be that the current measures we are taking to control the rise in case numbers are linked to an expectation that there will be a lagging surge in serious hospitalisations and fatalities. This may well be what will occur, I don't want to come across as a crackpot here.

But if the lag doesn't resolve and the ICU numbers and fatalities don't rise now then there will be a discussion to be had. Because arguably it then becomes a question of how efficiently can we shield vulnerable people and care homes, once we know high case numbers in the general population actually isn't putting the health service under significant strain. If the only way we can think to protect vulnerable people and care homes is to bring national case numbers down using level 3-5 lockdowns that's grand... But seems like a very blunt instrument. It would be worth thinking about, if a more targeted approach would salvage the economy and save billions in national debt.

The rate of hospitalisations is going up. It was 100 four weeks ago. 150 two weeks ago, It's at 315 now. Level 3 hadn't worked. A move to level 4 or 5 was needed to address that. Then it becomes a question of are they just delaying the inevitable.

I do think that being back at this point is likely a result of a failure to act appropriately and quickly to this point.

I heard last night there was to be a review after 4 weeks.

theballz

I have to say I am really pissed off at all this.

I do agree gyms might be a danger for the infection (although not proven,) however, there are certain smaller gyms in Dublin that are safe. The gym I had been a member in for years completely took advantage of the reopening, they took on new members and they were always packed. For this reason, I left the gym and joined another.

My new gym (since reopening of initial lockdown,) only allows 4 people to train at a time. With one 1 personal trainer supervising. Every member of the class has to wipe down all equipment and hand sanitize throughout the session.

Yet they also have to close down? It's a complete disgrace.

Exercise in this country is not taken seriously by our government and the mental health implications cannot be overlooked.

Starlord_01

Bit the bullet and invested in some more dumbbells to add to the ones I picked up in April along with the collection of resistance bands. :pac:

Hoping the gyms are open this side of Christmas.

completedit

I think I'll just use the time to get cardio fit. Some sort of pull up programme using my attic bannisters. It's honestly very grim

rondog

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

To be fair, what do you want the Public Health Emergency team to advise on other than public health?

That is their role. To advise on the protection of public health.

The government take that advise and make decision based on all factors, including the economy.

That was Nephet who advised the lockdown.

Leo and the govt could have balanced it out and realised that they will ruin the economy which they are.
We could have had the guards/army in and enforced guidelines at level 3 and we woudlnt be in this mess.
The fact that we are the only country in europe that had no other resolution but to lock down a whole country shows how pathetic NEPHET is and our spineless govt.

Peope who say bringing the guards and army in is a police state ,really?what are we in now and probably for months to come.We will have checkpoints monitoring our movements,no bars,restaurants to go to, no Malls to buy things no outlet like gyms for the thousands of people who work from home and will have kids in the evenings so will cuase many to slip into depression.

Closing the whole country down when even the WHO advise against it shows how weak and pathetic nephet is that theur only solution is to push our ecomony to ruin with approx 200k people out of work.

China with 1 billion in population enforced strict lockdowns initially and look at them now basically back to normal wth a GDP growth of 4% for the last 3 months .

el Fenomeno

completedit wrote: »

I think I'll just use the time to get cardio fit. Some sort of pull up programme using my attic bannisters. It's honestly very grim

I think that's what I'll do too. I'll just focus on cardio and conditioning, and work in whatever bodyweight and resistance band strength training I can.

rondog

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The rate of hospitalisations is going up. It was 100 four weeks ago. 150 two weeks ago, It's at 315 now. Level 3 hadn't worked. A move to level 4 or 5 was needed to address that. Then it becomes a question of are they just delaying the inevitable.

I do think that being back at this point is likely a result of a failure to act appropriately and quickly to this point.

I heard last night there was to be a review after 4 weeks.

Wrong!Level 3 wasnt ENFORCED.

I saw hoards of young lads roaming around in gangs.I saw videos of 2 traveller communions with 150/200 at each and not 1 mask at it.I saw students 200+ gathering together with zero social distancing.I could go on and on.

We were told they couldnt give guards authority to shut down house parties but now suddenly they can at level 5.If we enforced ,like china and NZ did, we wouldnt be in a potential extra national lockdown for more than 6 weeks i can guarantee you that.

We have a clueless govt who collectively had no other solution that another lock down,the only country in europe with another one.

We will be entering one of the worst depressions seen in our economy in our lifetimes.

Alf Veedersane

rondog wrote: »

Wrong!Level 3 wasnt ENFORCED.

It wasn't working. The level of enforcement doesn't change that fact.

rondog wrote: »

I saw hoards of young lads roaming around in gangs.I saw videos of 2 traveller communions with 150/200 at each and not 1 mask at it.I saw students 200+ gathering together with zero social distancing.I could go on and on.

We were told they couldnt give guards authority to shut down house parties but now suddenly they can at level 5.

With the army and Gardaí combined, you have about 24,000 people. There are 49,000 cities, towns and villages in Ireland. There aren't the resources to enforce it like you're suggesting.

They won't really be in any better position to enforce level 5 than level 3. They are reliant on people following the guidelines.

rondog wrote: »

If we enforced ,like china and NZ did, we wouldnt be in a potential extra national lockdown for more than 6 weeks i can guarantee you that.

If we enforced like China, we'd be a very, very different country. One I doubt you'd want to live in.

rondog wrote: »

We have a clueless govt who collectively had no other solution that another lock down,the only country in europe with another one.

We will be entering one of the worst depressions seen in our economy in our lifetimes.

We may not be the last country to go into this level of lockdown. Who knows.

And I don't disagree it's the shíttiest of shít situations but we don't have the numbers to enforce anything.

There are the extreme examples of large gatherings of students or other events (numbers of cases in the Traveller community isn't high) but the reality is that they're not the major causes of community transmission. It's people not following the guidance. Having friends over. It happens all the time and under the radar. Very hard to enforce that.

For all the mistakes the government have made, there's a sizeable enough cohort that have decided the guidelines don't apply to them.

completedit

completedit wrote: »

I think I'll just use the time to get cardio fit. Some sort of pull up programme using my attic bannisters. It's honestly very grim

I did a nice bit of running in March and April but got sick of it. Will likely go back to a trot or three a week now for Oct/Nov and see how I get on.

Alf Veedersane

rondog wrote: »

That was Nephet who advised the lockdown.

And, as we have already seen, it's up to the government to decide if that is the best course of action.

Purely from a public health point of view, that level of suppression probably makes sense based on the modelling they have done. But the government weighs up everything affected by the lockdown.

Or they should.

rondog wrote: »

Leo and the govt could have balanced it out and realised that they will ruin the economy which they are.
We could have had the guards/army in and enforced guidelines at level 3 and we woudlnt be in this mess.
The fact that we are the only country in europe that had no other resolution but to lock down a whole country shows how pathetic NEPHET is and our spineless govt..

I'm not sure how many you think are in the army that there will suddenly be enough army and guards to enforce anything.

rondog wrote: »

Peope who say bringing the guards and army in is a police state ,really?what are we in now and probably for months to come.We will have checkpoints monitoring our movements,no bars,restaurants to go to, no Malls to buy things no outlet like gyms for the thousands of people who work from home and will have kids in the evenings so will cuase many to slip into depression.

Closing the whole country down when even the WHO advise against it shows how weak and pathetic nephet is that theur only solution is to push our ecomony to ruin with approx 200k people out of work.

China with 1 billion in population enforced strict lockdowns initially and look at them now basically back to normal wth a GDP growth of 4% for the last 3 months .

Again, you're blaming NPHET for the decisions of the government, which is what I was saying in my original reply. Varadkar even said that when he addressed the leaked letter about going to level 5 a fortnight ago:

Leo: "I have confidence in NPHET to dispense public health advice. That’s what they do. They don’t advise the public, they advise the Government and the Government decided."

But I wouldn't use China as an example of anything. What the world knows about China is what China wants the world to hear.

rondog

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It wasn't working. The level of enforcement doesn't change that fact.



With the army and Gardaí combined, you have about 24,000 people. There are 49,000 cities, towns and villages in Ireland. There aren't the resources to enforce it like you're suggesting.

They won't really be in any better position to enforce level 5 than level 3. They are reliant on people following the guidelines.



If we enforced like China, we'd be a very, very different country. One I doubt you'd want to live in.



We may not be the last country to go into this level of lockdown. Who knows.

And I don't disagree it's the shíttiest of shít situations but we don't have the numbers to enforce anything.

There are the extreme examples of large gatherings of students or other events (numbers of cases in the Traveller community isn't high) but the reality is that they're not the major causes of community transmission. It's people not following the guidance. Having friends over. It happens all the time and under the radar. Very hard to enforce that.

For all the mistakes the government have made, there's a sizeable enough cohort that have decided the guidelines don't apply to them.

It could have worked but as i said it wasnt enforced.There are plenty of police in each area to drive around ,identify and shut down parties.If the public are as sick of lockdowns and restrictions as they say they are they could help out and identify parties and have them shut down.Id much rather responsible people tell on people having parties than rolling lockdowns for the next 2 years.

We also have an army and civil defence who are pretty idle at the moment who could enforce the new laws easily.CHina, Thailand, Vietnam and many other had strict enforcement of rules are now with neglible covic cases.

China not being a place i like to live?Strict adherence to the rules and now back to normal,pool parties with thousands enjoying themselves ,a booming economy set to take over the US in afew years,id absolutely like to live there as its a far better choice than this miserable hell wehave inthis country at the moment with Mass unemployment on the way and rolling lockdowns for the next 2/3 years.

As for travellers,its known there is a high incidence in the Rom and traveller community due to many generations living in close proximity to each other and many flouting the rules in the many reported cases of traveller funerals and communions with hundreds in attendance with no social distancing and many travelling from mainland UK.

eastie17

The original lockdown was to buy us time, except now we hear that we added additional ICU capacity but don't have the nurses to staff them. We have 200 nurses less in the system than we had last March!

We have front line workers who are close contacts self isolating in some cases for 14 days "just in case", I get why this is but there appears to be alot more known about the disease than there was at the beginning. Why haven't we changed that process?

Other countries have had success making masks mandatory at all times outside your home, we could have done this and put enforcement powers in law months ago. Why are they only now putting legislation through? They knew this was going to happen at some stage. Again, original lockdown was to buy us time and get ready for wave 2. Why couldn't we have done this?

We know enough about the numbers to state that schools aren't a significant infection vector - so do we know how it got back out of control again? If so are we now going to use this lockdown to put steps in place, legislation etc based on that data so we dont end up doing this every 6 weeks or so? It looks like they have no other plan but to do that, lock us down every time the numbers rise.

Similarly we must have the numbers on gyms - was there enough evidence to suggest enough of a significant infection vector to close them given the impact? I go to a crossfit gym who halved their maximum numbers, gave everyone a specific section and they are all cleaned down after each session. I'm working from home so it's literally the only reason to get out of the house during the week and provides a huge focus and mental release. I'm lucky enough to have the space to work out at home, but its soul destroying having to do it.

Last time, I get it, we had no option but to lockdown, the Government has failed us this time. Dont think any of us are surprised, its just really fecken annoying and disappointing that they cant offer anything except the bankrupting tactic of lockdown, open up, lockdown etc.

And finally, what are they doing about prepping for vaccine distribution? Other countries have release their plans, not a whisper here. Pfizer believe they will have something to distribute by the end of November - we will get some of the EU purchased batch. What are we going to do, wait until they are in Dublin airport before doing anything?
Its not a trivial activity - its requires cold storage supply chain and 2 shots, if we haven't starting planning now we are already too late.

Alf Veedersane

rondog wrote: »

It could have worked but as i said it wasnt enforced.There are plenty of police in each area to drive around ,identify and shut down parties.

There aren't. There aren't enough to police on a day-to-day basis as it is.

And how do you identify a dinner party? No loud noise but a number of people from different households.

rondog wrote: »

China not being a place i like to live?Strict adherence to the rules and now back to normal,pool parties with thousands enjoying themselves ,a booming economy set to take over the US in afew years,id absolutely like to live there as its a far better choice than this miserable hell wehave inthis country at the moment with Mass unemployment on the way and rolling lockdowns for the next 2/3 years.

Yeah, China is a big pool party and everyone is happy.

rondog wrote: »

As for travellers,its known there is a high incidence in the Rom and traveller community due to many generations living in close proximity to each other and many flouting the rules in the many reported cases of traveller funerals and communions with hundreds in attendance with no social distancing and many travelling from mainland UK.

Less than 250 total cases in the Traveller community and less than 90 from the Roma community as of the 10th of October.

rondog

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

There aren't. There aren't enough to police on a day-to-day basis as it is.

And how do you identify a dinner party? No loud noise but a number of people from different households.



Yeah, China is a big pool party and everyone is happy.



Less than 250 total cases in the Traveller community and less than 90 from the Roma community as of the 10th of October.

Youve missed my point twice about civil defence and the army which many countries have employed with great success.If we are serious about suppressing and keeping the virus under control these are things we need to do.ANyone that says ah sure its a police state ,really?and what are we living in and will be living in for years to come?

A friend lives in Beijing and another in Guandong and by all accounts i hear its a fantastic place if you mind your business and remain apolitical which the vast majority of foriegners do.

Obviously you cant identify every party but if the population buy in and if people are serious about not letting this country get ruined then its not hard to notice gangs of non residents entering a house and cars parked outside.

I have much bigger numbers than that for travellers but cant seem to post a link.Ill try on anohter post

Alf Veedersane

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

.........



Less than 250 total cases in the Traveller community and less than 90 from the Roma community as of the 10th of October.

And how many don't get tested when identified as close contacts? How many don't present themselves with symptoms?

rondog

eastie17 wrote: »

And finally, what are they doing about prepping for vaccine distribution? Other countries have release their plans, not a whisper here. Pfizer believe they will have something to distribute by the end of November - we will get some of the EU purchased batch. What are we going to do, wait until they are in Dublin airport before doing anything?
Its not a trivial activity - its requires cold storage supply chain and 2 shots, if we haven't starting planning now we are already too late.

Agreed! but i worry about getting people vaccinated.Any online posts are of people stating they wont give any vaccine to their families,we have the anti vaxxer brigade stiring up conspiracy theories and turning many against vaccines.

I cant see many getting vaccinated so i dont think it will be a silver bullet.Unfortunately i see misery and gloom and this incompentent moronic govt just taking the easy measure and panicing with cycles of lockdown...i hope im wrong.

rondog

Augeo wrote: »

And how many don't get tested when identified as close contacts? How many don't present themselves with symptoms?

I would suggest it FAR higher than that.Considering the amount of communions,funerals and travellers gathering with huge numbers id say its much higher.

ALso,considering guards dont seem to be shutting any of them down as we will hear the race card and pavvee point complaining about its only a minority

Alf Veedersane

Augeo wrote: »

And how many don't get tested when identified as close contacts? How many don't present themselves with symptoms?

25% is the overall number of people not turning up when identified as close contacts.

I don't think, with 250 confirmed cases out of 51,000 confirmed cases, that Travellers are a significant problem.

eastie17

eastie17 wrote: »

...............

And finally, what are they doing about prepping for vaccine distribution? Other countries have release their plans, not a whisper here. Pfizer believe they will have something to distribute by the end of November - we will get some of the EU purchased batch. What are we going to do, wait until they are in Dublin airport before doing anything?
Its not a trivial activity - its requires cold storage supply chain and 2 shots, if we haven't starting planning now we are already too late.

A phase 3 for a vaccine usually takes about 2 years ....... I can't fathom how anyone reckons there'll be anything to distribute in November.
Pfizer are potentially looking for emergency authorisation in mid November...... I'm not sure emergency authorisation will lead to widespread distribution tbh .... it will be proven to be safe by then but the efficacy will be a huge question mark.

Pfizer CEO "assuming positive data, Pfizer will apply for Emergency Authorization Use in the U.S. soon after the safety milestone is achieved in the third week of November" ............ J&J's trial initially mentioned monitoring the 60,000 participants for 2 years to gauge efficacy.

Funny old world tbh.

Alf Veedersane

rondog wrote: »

Youve missed my point twice about civil defence and the army which many countries have employed with great success.

I didn't. I addressed it the first time but maybe you missed it.

With the army and Gardaí combined, you have about 24,000 people. There are 49,000 cities, towns and villages in Ireland. There aren't the resources to enforce it like you're suggesting.

The civil defence support frontline emergency services. They have no place in enforcement.

rondog wrote: »

If we are serious about suppressing and keeping the virus under control these are things we need to do.

I'm not saying we shouldn't. I'm saying it just isn't realistic to think that the level of enforcement you have in mind can happen even if you dedicate the Gardaí and the army entirely to its enforcement.

rondog wrote: »

Obviously you cant identify every party but if the population buy in and if people are serious about not letting this country get ruined then its not hard to notice gangs of non residents entering a house and cars parked outside.

It doesn't have to be gangs of people. That's the problem. 3 couple go to a dinner party in someone's house. 7/8 people would likely fly under the radar. One of them has it, you're probably ending up with it in 3 of the 4 houses. They head over to a friends because they're just one household mixing with another and how bad can it be. Etc etc. People are causing spread through activities they can justify as being more or less within the spirit of the guidelines.

The guards were called on a neighbouring party that had at least 20 people at it about 2 week ago and they arrived 15 minutes later and broke it up. If anyone had it then, it was still being spread by the time it was broken up.

The point I'm making is it is very difficult and nigh on impossible to enforce. By all means throw the resources that they can at enforcing but I can't help but feel it would be like pissing in the wind.

As poor as the decisions that have been made thus far have been, I'm more píssed off by the people who can't be arsed adhering to the guidance (who usually then complain about them being increased).

Alf Veedersane

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

..............


It doesn't have to be gangs of people. That's the problem. 3 couple go to a dinner party in someone's house. 7/8 people would likely fly under the radar. One of them has it, you're probably ending up with it in 3 of the 4 houses. They head over to a friends because they're just one household mixing with another and how bad can it be. Etc etc. People are causing spread through activities they can justify as being more or less within the spirit of the guidelines...........

The point I'm making is it is very difficult and nigh on impossible to enforce. By all means throw the resources that they can at enforcing but I can't help but feel it would be like pissing in the wind.

As poor as the decisions that have been made thus far have been, I'm more píssed off by the people who can't be arsed adhering to the guidance (who usually then complain about them being increased).

I suspect and fear the activities you describe are both causing the problem and won't stop with level 5 for 6 weeks, if anything such activity may well increase.

rondog

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I didn't. I addressed it the first time but maybe you missed it.



The civil defence support frontline emergency services. They have no place in enforcement.



I'm not saying we shouldn't. I'm saying it just isn't realistic to think that the level of enforcement you have in mind can happen even if you dedicate the Gardaí and the army entirely to its enforcement.



It doesn't have to be gangs of people. That's the problem. 3 couple go to a dinner party in someone's house. 7/8 people would likely fly under the radar. One of them has it, you're probably ending up with it in 3 of the 4 houses. They head over to a friends because they're just one household mixing with another and how bad can it be. Etc etc. People are causing spread through activities they can justify as being more or less within the spirit of the guidelines.

The guards were called on a neighbouring party that had at least 20 people at it about 2 week ago and they arrived 15 minutes later and broke it up. If anyone had it then, it was still being spread by the time it was broken up.

The point I'm making is it is very difficult and nigh on impossible to enforce. By all means throw the resources that they can at enforcing but I can't help but feel it would be like pissing in the wind.

As poor as the decisions that have been made thus far have been, I'm more píssed off by the people who can't be arsed adhering to the guidance (who usually then complain about them being increased).

I dont think you acknowledged my comment on the army or civil defence.And powers of arrest can be given to civil defence.
With all 3 we can easily police and make arrests .obivously some house parties will slip thru the net but the vast majority where there is massive number would be shut down and if there is a deterrent like they have in the UK with massive fines i think we can easily win that battle.By throwing your hands up and saying it wont work its such a defeatist attitude and the main reason a successful level 3 wasnt implemented.You have this idea of some underground parties going on when the reality is most parties were clearly evident ie the mass street parties in west dublin(one of the areas with highest indicidence of covid),the traveller communions with over 150 people,the traveller funeral with 130 people at many coming from the UK,the student parites of which there are MANY all across the country.These are the parties that can be shut down and quite easily too with powers given

With your opinion this country should stay locked down at level 5 and in misery as we cannot trust the IRish to follow guidelines ,so in effect no return to level 3 so we may aswell forget about xmas and any future that is.

Alf Veedersane

rondog wrote: »

I dont think you acknowledged my comment on the army or civil defence.And powers of arrest can be given to civil defence.

I referred to them as I already quoted. Here and here .

You evidently don't understand what exactly the civil defence is.

rondog wrote: »

By throwing your hands up and saying it wont work its such a defeatist attitude and the main reason a successful level 3 wasnt implemented.You have this idea of some underground parties going on when the reality is most parties were clearly evident ie the mass street parties in west dublin(one of the areas with highest indicidence of covid),the traveller communions with over 150 people,the traveller funeral with 130 people at many coming from the UK,the student parites of which there are MANY all across the country.These are the parties that can be shut down and quite easily too with powers given

With your opinion this country should stay locked down at level 5 and in misery as we cannot trust the IRish to follow guidelines ,so in effect no return to level 3 so we may aswell forget about xmas and any future that is.

You're either misreading or misrepresenting what I said and then making up something I didn't say so I'll leave you to it.

Cill94

rondog wrote: »

A friend lives in Beijing and another in Guandong and by all accounts i hear its a fantastic place if you mind your business and remain apolitical which the vast majority of foriegners do.

I suspect your friend is a westerner, and is probably having a different experience to a native. Same is true for people who visit Cuba.

China is a communist dictatorship, with a very different set of beliefs around human rights, censorship, etc. Anyone who is believing their spin on their handling of COVID is being naiive at best imo.

JayRoc

rondog wrote: »

It could have worked but as i said it wasnt enforced.There are plenty of police in each area to drive around ,identify and shut down parties.If the public are as sick of lockdowns and restrictions as they say they are they could help out and identify parties and have them shut down.Id much rather responsible people tell on people having parties than rolling lockdowns for the next 2 years.

We also have an army and civil defence who are pretty idle at the moment who could enforce the new laws easily.CHina, Thailand, Vietnam and many other had strict enforcement of rules are now with neglible covic cases.

China not being a place i like to live?Strict adherence to the rules and now back to normal,pool parties with thousands enjoying themselves ,a booming economy set to take over the US in afew years,id absolutely like to live there as its a far better choice than this miserable hell wehave inthis country at the moment with Mass unemployment on the way and rolling lockdowns for the next 2/3 years.

As for travellers,its known there is a high incidence in the Rom and traveller community due to many generations living in close proximity to each other and many flouting the rules in the many reported cases of traveller funerals and communions with hundreds in attendance with no social distancing and many travelling from mainland UK.

No one should be holding China up as an ideal of how to run a society. And I say that as someone who is unemployed again because of these restrictions.

silverharp

JayRoc wrote: »

No one should be holding China up as an ideal of how to run a society. And I say that as someone who is unemployed again because of these restrictions.

whats wrong with China apart from their Uighur concentration camps, live organ donation markets, fentanyl exporting, IP stealing CCP dictatorship?

FlubberJones

Last session in the gym tomorrow morning for at least 4-6 weeks... Ben Dunne in Cherrywood, a cavernous gym with hardly more than 25 people training the majority of the daytime.

I'm not really arsed to train but will go just to appreciate the place and remind me the gym will open again... Once the fools in charge realise the benefits of these places and the hard work the people who own and run them have put in to make them safer.