American response

hetuzozaho

walshb wrote: »

Yes

I agree....ok, not being desperate to be in the spotlight...

But my point is that these people putting themselves under his leadership and control and working with him is what is America's problem

Faucii and others are leaders in their own right. Trump has clearly shown noting but idiocy and contempt and hostility....

Why are these people associating with him? It's a team effort this, and they are as complicit in this shambolic handling as he is...by aligning themselves to him, that makes them complicit...

America needs people with real backbone, integrity, morals and principles....anyone associating with Trump loses all that in my view....

Fauci didn't put himself under Trumps leadership. He's worked under multiple Presidents since 1984 and did some amazing award winning work.

We don't want people like Fauci leaving IMO. We need people like him involved.

walshb

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Fauci didn't put himself under Trumps leadership. He's worked under multiple Presidents since 1984 and did some amazing award winning work.

We don't want people like Fauci leaving IMO. We need people like him involved.

But it is people like him, so respected and influential, that by taking a real stand, can get the message across....that this madness cannot continue....

By still being there, being part of Trump's team on this, Faucci has lost all credibility for me.....he is part of the sham...

Boggles

Fauci is sincerely trying to save lives, Trump is just another hurdle in the way of doing that.

If Fauci gets fired or leaves and Trump appoints a yes man, God help them.

walshb

Boggles wrote: »

Fauci is sincerely trying to save lives, Trump is just another hurdle in the way of doing that.

If Fauci gets fired or leaves and Trump appoints a yes man, God help them.

But Faucci and Trump have been disagreeing from day one....during a global pandemic, when teams are meant to be working together, and 'your leader' is deliberately undermining you......

Why is Faucci still involved with a leader who clearly does not respect him, appreciate him or listen to him?

hetuzozaho

walshb wrote: »

But it is people like him, so respected and influential, that by taking a real stand, can get the message across....that this madness cannot continue....

Is the madness the opening up? Or what message exactly, may I am missing your point.

walshb wrote: »

By still being there, being part of Trump's team on this, Faucci has lost all credibility for me.....he is part of the sham...

That's a shame. But fair enough.

hetuzozaho

walshb wrote: »

But Faucci and Trump have been disagreeing from day one....during a global pandemic, when teams are meant to be working together, and 'your leader' is deliberately undermining you......

Why is Faucci still involved with a leader who clearly does not respect him, appreciate him or listen to him?

I would say it is because Fauci believes he can still save lives. If he leaves and goes home he can't.

Christy42

walshb wrote: »

But it is people like him, so respected and influential, that by taking a real stand, can get the message across....that this madness cannot continue....

By still being there, being part of Trump's team on this, Faucci has lost all credibility for me.....he is part of the sham...

What can he do if he is fired. If he is he will instantly be vilified beyond belief by fox news. Here he might be able to help more than the next person who will likely be chosen for their willingness to wax lyrical about the wonders of bleach. Of course it has just cost him his principles. Not sure I agree with him but I understand the choice.

The madness will continue with or without Fauci. The other point is that many in the US agree with Trump and want the madness to continue. Many are willing to sacrifice the elderly for the economy and never wonder why the economy was so brittle in the first place.

walshb

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Is the madness the opening up? Or what message exactly, may I am missing your point.
.

The madness has been Trump's handling of the pandemic.....the whole sorry saga of constant hostility, fighting, deliberately disagreeing with your experts, stoking tensions, shouting the odds, blaming everyone and on and on and on.....

Boggles

walshb wrote: »

But Faucci and Trump have been disagreeing from day one....during a global pandemic, when teams are meant to be working together, and 'your leader' is deliberately undermining you......

Why is Faucci still involved with a leader who clearly does not respect him, appreciate him or listen to him?

Trump doesn't respect anyone. Not his wife, family, people who work for him, the American people, no one.

Like I said the giant dotard man baby is another hurdle the scientists have to get around.

If Fauci quits and just airs his grievances on CNN that may make you or other people feel better, but it doesn't help save lives.

walshb

Christy42 wrote: »

What can he do if he is fired. If he is he will instantly be vilified beyond belief by fox news. Here he might be able to help more than the next person who will likely be chosen for their willingness to wax lyrical about the wonders of bleach. Of course it has just cost him his principles. Not sure I agree with him but I understand the choice.

The madness will continue with or without Fauci. The other point is that many in the US agree with Trump and want the madness to continue. Many are willing to sacrifice the elderly for the economy and never wonder why the economy was so brittle in the first place.

I said he should remove himself. Take a stand. Refuse to be part of this sorry saga....Resign....not get fired..

Boggles

walshb wrote: »

I said he should remove himself. Take a stand. Refuse to be part of this sorry saga....Resign....not get fired..

A Pyrrhic victory?

walshb

Boggles wrote: »

Trump doesn't respect anyone. Not his wife, family, people who work for him, the American people, no one.

Like I said the giant dotard man baby is another hurdle the scientists have to get around.

If Fauci quits and just airs his grievances on CNN that may make you or other people feel better, but it doesn't help save lives.

That is my whole point....

America needs people with integrity, morals and principles to remove themselves from his grasp.....if he respects nobody, then it's up to people to disassociate.

Of course, he will still get people to come on-board, but hey, they are the problem......and IMO, anyone on-board with Trump is no better than he.

Boggles

walshb wrote: »

That is my whole point....

America needs people with integrity, morals and principles to remove themselves from his grasp.....if he respects nobody, then it's up to people to disassociate.

Of course, he will still get people to come on-board, but hey, they are the problem......and IMO, anyone on-board with Trump is no better than he.

You are forgetting the quite sizable Republican Party have made him a king.

It's not like he is getting away with his stupidity on his own, he is being enabled.

hetuzozaho

walshb wrote: »

The madness has been Trump's handling of the pandemic.....the whole sorry saga of constant hostility, fighting, deliberately disagreeing with your experts, stoking tensions, shouting the odds, blaming everyone and on and on and on.....

I don't think it would be productive if Fauci got involved in promoting the above message. I agree with the message, but it's a difficult situation.

There's the medical advice he feeds into the administration to save lives and then the whole politics Trump is making of it all.

I agree it is frustrating, as I wish at the briefings they would just go "SHUT UP YOU FOOL", I scream it at the TV myself.

I honestly believe Fauci believes this is the best way to save lives. And he has experience working in this situation with the politics of it all.

hetuzozaho

walshb wrote: »

That is my whole point....

America needs people with integrity, morals and principles to remove themselves from his grasp.....if he respects nobody, then it's up to people to disassociate.

Of course, he will still get people to come on-board, but hey, they are the problem......and IMO, anyone on-board with Trump is no better than he.

I agree with the principal but I think in this situation it's better to be involved and get to the podium the odd time, get interviews and get across the message that helps saves lives. Get a say at task force meetings. Get a say in policy going forward. Get people in the admin onboard with you due to respect you have. Actually make a difference.

To walk away like you suggest just doesn't play out well in my mind.

Also I don't see Fauci as associated with Trump really. He was there long before him and hopefully will be there when Trump leaves in November.

Christy42

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Do you really believe that first part of your post? I mean you do actually think it's within the realms of possibility that a sitting US president would encourage his supporters to go out and fight the result of a democratic election with violence?

Do you know how ludicrously crazy that sounds? I don't think I can take you seriously when you come out with stuff like that because, that opinion has no basis in reality at all.

Similarly the majority of the second part of your post is more crazy nonsense. How would it even be possible for him to pass emergency legislation to give him another term it can't and won't happen and for you to even suggest it is more crazy nonsense. The only way he could legitimately end up serving a third term would be as you have already mentioned due to war same as with FDR.

Trump has already claimed shenanigans on the election that he won. Is it that much of a stretch that he will claim shenanigans on an election he loses? It seems a guarantee from where I am sitting.

With regards to the violence claim he encouraged the 2nd amendment people to do something about Hilary. No one acted on it but he won. There is no guarantee they won't next time. You can argue what he meant but there is an obvious violence interpretation and someone may well take it. Then you also have the attacks on the media and sent suspect packages through to top CNN/Democrat people already.

Again he will claim all his violent statements are jokes but quite frankly no one buys that and he has continued on knowing many will take them seriously and potentially act on them. So your basis in reality is that it already happened.

Personally I don't see him trying to cling to power. He really prefers the victim mentality and would prefer to stay outside and encourage violence against whoever beats him and call for their heads.

Blueshoe

I wonder do people in other countries post on forums about Irish political matters. Things such as suggestions to grow lettuce on your windowsill incase of food shortages.
How about a former leader telling people to kill themselves. That was a good one. Imagine the cry fest if Trump said that.

Trump is a self serving crook and Joe Biden is a dithering old coot.

State of it all

walshb

Boggles wrote: »

You are forgetting the quite sizable Republican Party have made him a king.

It's not like he is getting away with his stupidity on his own, he is being enabled.

100 percent.....hence my point that Trump is not D problem.....it's those around him......all of them...

I know Faucci is only one man...

But if more men and women stood up and showed character here, then the U.S. may well prosper...

walshb

Blueshoe wrote: »

I wonder do people in other countries post on forums about Irish political matters. Things such as suggestions to grow lettuce on your windowsill incase of food shortages.
How about a former leader telling people to kill themselves. That was a good one. Imagine the cry fest if Trump said that.

Trump is a self serving crook and Joe Biden is a dithering old coot.

State of it all

No leaders in our history are remotely comparable to Trump....

A few little soundbites here and there mean jack sh1t....

Boggles

walshb wrote: »

100 percent.....hence my point that Trump is not D problem.....it's those around him......all of them...

I know Faucci is only one man...

But if more men and women stood up and showed character here, then the U.S. may well prosper...

They had their chance.

They wouldn't do it.

Blueshoe

walshb wrote: »

No leaders in our history are remotely comparable to Trump....

A few little soundbites here and there mean jack sh1t....

Bertie didn't have a bank account and won the money on a horse that he couldn't remember.
How about champagne Charlie.

Stop the lights

hetuzozaho

Some people really don't like people discussing the Trump/American response in the Trump/American response thread

Christy42

Blueshoe wrote: »

Bertie didn't have a bank account and won the money on a horse that he couldn't remember.
How about champagne Charlie.

Stop the lights

They could string a sentence together. Bertie was absolutely corrupt but he at least improved our relationship with Europe. Those 2 are tragedies imo. They were great at what they did but had the fatal flaw of greed which screwed any good they could have done. Bertie claimed it came from a horse. Trump just openly pores money into marolago. Trump couldn't be a competent leader if he tried.

There are several orders of magnitude between Bertie and Trump.

Stateofyou

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Do you really believe that first part of your post? I mean you do actually think it's within the realms of possibility that a sitting US president would encourage his supporters to go out and fight the result of a democratic election with violence?

Do you know how ludicrously crazy that sounds? I don't think I can take you seriously when you come out with stuff like that because, that opinion has no basis in reality at all.

Trump referenced Rep. Greg Gianforte’s 2017 attack on a reporter by saying that “any guy who can do a body slam, he is my type!”

"Even in elementary school, I was a very assertive, aggressive kid," Trump wrote in the bestseller. "In the second grade I actually gave a teacher a black eye — I punched my music teacher because I didn't think he knew anything about music and I almost got expelled.

In Cedar Rapids, Iowa, on the day of the Iowa caucuses, for instance, he told audience members he would pay their legal fees if they engaged in violence against protesters."If you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously, OK? Just knock the hell ... I promise you I will pay for the legal fees. I promise, I promise," he said on Feb. 1, 2016.

At a Las Vegas rally later that month, he said security guards were too gentle with a protester. "He's walking out with big high-fives, smiling, laughing," Trump said. "I'd like to punch him in the face, I'll tell you."

A similar situation unfolded at a rally that month in Warren, Michigan.

"Get him out," he said of a protester. "Try not to hurt him. If you do, I'll defend you in court. Don't worry about it."

Three protesters who claim they were roughed up by Trump supporters at a March 1, 2016, rally in Louisville, Kentucky, have filed a federal suit against Trump, accusing him of inciting violence. Federal Judge David Hale said there was sufficient evidence that the protesters' injuries were a "direct and proximate result" of Trump's comments, according to The Associated Press.

On July 2, 2017, Trump shared the doctored video, from a 2007 WWE skit in which he is seen taking down WWE owner Vince McMahon. In the version Trump shared, McMahon's face is blocked by the CNN logo.

The president of the United States suggested last week that his political supporters might resort to violence if they didn’t get their way. (NYT)

“You know, the left plays a tougher game. It’s very funny. I actually think that the people on the right are tougher, but they don’t play it tougher. O.K.? I can tell you I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump. I have the tough people, but they don’t play it tough — until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad.”

The F.B.I.’s data shows an increase in hate crimes (NYT report)

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/back-trump-comments-perceived-encouraging-violence/story?id=48415766

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/17/opinion/trump-violence.html

Since Trump embarked on his campaign for the US presidency in June 2015, dozens of attacks or threats involving his supporters have been reported. Here, the Guardian has compiled details of 52 incidents reported since 2015 involving Trump supporters.

This list includes people who:

-Explicitly declared support for Donald Trump, or used his slogans, during or in connection with acts or threats of violence.
-Cited Trump or his rhetoric in subsequently explaining acts or threats of violence.
-Committed or threatened violence against opponents of Trump at political events, or while wearing Trump-branded attire signifying their support for the president.
-Publicly declared an allegiance to Trump before committing or threatening violence against members of political or racial groups that Trump has denounced

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2019/aug/28/in-the-name-of-trump-supporters-attacks-database

I could keep going but I think you get the point.

walshb

But the cult Trump supporters dismiss all this as “he was only joking.”

fly_agaric

Blueshoe wrote: »

I wonder do people in other countries post on forums about Irish political matters.

Ireland much as we all love it is a small green island off the coast of the Eurasian landmass with a tiny population & little influence or significance globally (other than as a part of the EU perhaps).

The US is a superpower. It has the world's largest economy, is one of the most populous countries, has the largest military, has vast amounts of natural resources, is home to some of the worlds most powerful & wealthy corporations and individuals, its media and entertainment output influence the rest of the world, and (need i go on)....it is led by Donald Trump...

You have to accept other people are going to talk about the US and who holds the big job there for the forseeable. Even if China knocks it off its perch as top-dog (as you worried about earlier) it is still going to be a very important country that the rest of us will take an undue (to you) level of interest in + discuss for a long time to come.

Outlaw Pete

Most of posts of late seem to just the usual Orange Man Bad stuff with little or no specificity as what is being complained about now.


Anyway, I note that this kinda fearmongering hasn't aged well:


https://twitter.com/ron_fournier/status/1252351237900562439








Well, would seem the predicted surge hasn't happened:


https://twitter.com/MorningExp/status/1261285890942517249

FrostyJack

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Most of posts of late seem to just the usual Orange Man Bad stuff with little or no specificity as what is being complained about now.

They seem that way once you gloss over them, put blinkers on and never read any negative facts. The IT article a few posts above points out many of the deliberate mistakes Trump has made, please dispute them for us.

Professor Moriarty

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Most of posts of late seem to just the usual Orange Man Bad stuff with little or no specificity as what is being complained about now.


Anyway, I note that this kinda fearmongering hasn't aged well:


https://twitter.com/ron_fournier/status/1252351237900562439








Well, would seem the predicted surge hasn't happened:


https://twitter.com/MorningExp/status/1261285890942517249

That's really strange. This table shows Georgia to be second in terms of new cases.

hotmail.com

walshb wrote: »

That is my whole point....

America needs people with integrity, morals and principles to remove themselves from his grasp.....if he respects nobody, then it's up to people to disassociate.

Of course, he will still get people to come on-board, but hey, they are the problem......and IMO, anyone on-board with Trump is no better than he.

What do you mean by morals?

Not sure America has ever elected someone that had integrity. Leaders reflect the country. Trump reflects upon America and its arrogance and ignorance and extreme individualism.