American response

Stateofyou

I sincerely hope that one day the karma bus comes to collect it's debt against Donald Trump.

Leroy42

Given all that, why do you think the US will rebound faster than the EU when you ascribe all the same problems to both?

The left wing have been proven to be correct. You cannot run a country with little to no government, as you need it to handle situations like this. Private companies cannot, and should not, be relief upon to deal with issues such as this.

They will not hold stockpiles, they will not take the decisions that may be required but are against their economic interests, they will not continue to pay staff in a time of crisis. That is all left down to the state.

It is the right wing, strong capitalist, anti government, austerity cheerleaders, that have been shown to be have been wrong all this time.

Society is what is helping deal with Covid-19, not the markets. The willingness of people to act in the best interests of the overall, not just themselves. The realisation that you cannot continue to underfund the health service and then expect it to perform in a crisis.

fryup

Stateofyou wrote: »

I sincerely hope that one day the karma bus comes to collect it's debt against Donald Trump.

i hope so too........but i'm afraid Joe Biden won't be driving it

Leroy42

Just like HC, there is no logical reason why Biden won't win in November. But just like in 2016, logic may not play much of a part in it.

Whatever about the reasons behind voting for Trump in 2016, he has shown himself incapable of delivering on his promises.

Hasn't drained the swamp, didn't fix healthcare, hasn't brought back jobs, hasn't restarted coal, hasn't got US respect on the world stage.

So anyone voting for Trump is doing so for other reasons. Will there be enough of them? The polls suggest that it will be close (with the caveat that we are still man months away from November) and the fact that many votes are already decided based on party regardless.

But logically, his handling of this crisis should be more than enough for people to vote him out of office.

4068ac1elhodqr

Polls are fine (sometimes), much prefer live market real-world money indicators, all this week Trump has been the universal favourite with all the bookies and all exchanges.
Assuming it's a head-to-head race between him and Joe, which is seems to be now, the average price comparison is:

Trump: 1.90
Joe: 2.20

All you have to do to assume profit in this POTUS is pick both at 2+.
However won't have a cent on Joe, unless it's 5.x+

Good to see him call out the WHO (no one else would dare), who admitted themselves they messed up very early in the outbreak, and then later failed to call the pandemic a pandemic when it started to became obvious it was.

Harry Palmr

This is a much bigger topic than Trump but if the conflicts between the federal government and the big powerful individual states continues after this (California and NY first and foremost) and assuming Trump wins the election, could there be an actual push to secede from the union?

Christy42

Harry Palmr wrote: »

This is a much bigger topic than Trump but if the conflicts between the federal government and the big powerful individual states continues after this (California and NY first and foremost) and assuming Trump wins the election, could there be an actual push to secede from the union?

Doubtful. He does a lot of shouting but he hasn't actually taken them on on a point like this yet and has backed down on this one as well. To begin with the states also don't have the right to cede without permission from the federal government so it would likely take longer than the 4 years. Plus this entire incident shows the issue with a lack of central leadership in the US. Officially having no central leadership can hardly be an improvement.



One point that is interesting was the blocks that emerged. I am not sure how often this has happened before but will be interesting if a few blocks act like super states. Especially as they contain most of the economic power in the US with the coastal cities.

threeball

Leroy42 wrote: »

Just like HC, there is no logical reason why Biden won't win in November. But just like in 2016, logic may not play much of a part in it.

Whatever about the reasons behind voting for Trump in 2016, he has shown himself incapable of delivering on his promises.

Hasn't drained the swamp, didn't fix healthcare, hasn't brought back jobs, hasn't restarted coal, hasn't got US respect on the world stage.

So anyone voting for Trump is doing so for other reasons. Will there be enough of them? The polls suggest that it will be close (with the caveat that we are still man months away from November) and the fact that many votes are already decided based on party regardless.

But logically, his handling of this crisis should be more than enough for people to vote him out of office.

Hes actually done the exact opposite, he has loaded his cabinet with the greatest collection of crooks you could ever assemble, dismantled the first steps towards a universal healthcare system, piggybacked on the coattails of an already rising world economy and has caused the US to become a laughing stock on the world stage. There was a time when every country admired america. Now its a mixture of pity and disdain.

When it comes to his supporters, none of this will matter. One half can't string a coherent sentence together, the other are fervent nationalists and racists who don't dig any deeper than soundbites.

Stateofyou

fryup wrote: »

i hope so too........but i'm afraid Joe Biden won't be driving it

I think he'll beep the horn!

Leroy42

Malik Shy Lake wrote: »

Polls are fine (sometimes), much prefer live market real-world money indicators, all this week Trump has been the universal favourite with all the bookies and all exchanges.
Assuming it's a head-to-head race between him and Joe, which is seems to be now, the average price comparison is:

Trump: 1.90
Joe: 2.20

All you have to do to assume profit in this POTUS is pick both at 2+.
However won't have a cent on Joe, unless it's 5.x+

Good to see him call out the WHO (no one else would dare), who admitted themselves they messed up very early in the outbreak, and then later failed to call the pandemic a pandemic when it started to became obvious it was.

He isn't calling them out, he is blaming them. I am totally fine with calling for an investigation, all these bodies should be always under scrutiny, but he has cut off their funding without having all the facts. This is from a man that said the entire Russia probe was a fraud because it didn't uncover anything, he is now doing exactly the same.

He doesn't actually care about the WHO, if he did care that the wrong information was being put out then surely he should apologise and set up an investigation into himself regarding saying it was nothing to worry about, lack of testing, lack of a task force and saying certain drugs work without any evidence whatsoever.

But of course he hasn't done any of that. Because he isn't interested in the truth or being better prepared. Surely he could have done all this in the last three years? Did he ask not these questions before now? Of course not because he didn't care.

He still doesn't care. He praised the Chinese himself in March, one can only assume off the back of assurances from Xi, so now he, as the most powerful man in the world, is holding lessor people to standards he himself doesn't abide by?

lawrencesummers

You should all sit down at watch Tiger King. It’s a perfect representation of what is wrong with American society and culture, how uneducated a large portion of the country is, where their values lie and their approach to life.

You will quickly realise that America not only deserves to have Trump in Charge but they are lucky to have him.

Leroy42

Not sure about Tiger King being a perfect representation of the US, but I do agree that many on here, myself included, fail to see the real problems that the US has and that Trump is seen by many as perfect for the job.

Most on here, and across many parts of the world, see Trump in the light of what is expected and 'normal' but fail to understand the unique world view that many US have. They are such a mess of contradictions and seem to have an almost glee in not wanting to know.

IMO, they have now almost completely lost any notion of society, individualism is seemingly the only thing that matters. Many feel that compromise and understanding are bad concepts, might is right and my opinion is as valid as any facts. And Trump is the very epitome of that.

No rules, never apologise and only look out for yourself or those that agree with you.

The next election will be very telling. I can understand, if not agree with, the feeling of many to take a chance on Trump in 2016. Particularly given that many really had a visceral hatred of HC. But Trump has shown that he isn't the saviour that many thought he could be so will they continue on this path or look to reset?

I think it is very likely, and the polls would back this up to a large extent, that they aren't in any rush to reset and see little wrong with Trump. So much like Brexit, at some point we simply have to accept that the US has changed, or at least now openly embraces what was previously contained.

Danno

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The man is out of control!

https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1250310197223895043

Seriously?

Who signs Irish welfare cheques... have a closer look:



Is our Social Welfare minister "out of control"?

Some people :rolleyes:

Leroy42

Danno wrote: »

Seriously?

Who signs Irish welfare cheques... have a closer look:



Is our Social Welfare minister "out of control"?

Some people :rolleyes:

But the difference is that that is the norm. Every cheque is sent out like that.

Trump has asked for the process to be changed so that his name can be added.

So they had to delay to change the process to now include his signature.

Penn

Leroy42 wrote: »

But the difference is that that is the norm. Every cheque is sent out like that.

Trump has asked for the process to be changed so that his name can be added.

So they had to delay to change the process to now include his signature.

I've read that he can't even be the signatory on the cheque, so they're having to put his signature in the Memo section of the cheque instead. Part of the reason it's causing a delay in issuing the cheques.

lawrencesummers

Leroy42 wrote: »

Not sure about Tiger King being a perfect representation of the US, but I do agree that many on here, myself included, fail to see the real problems that the US has and that Trump is seen by many as perfect for the job.

Most on here, and across many parts of the world, see Trump in the light of what is expected and 'normal' but fail to understand the unique world view that many US have. They are such a mess of contradictions and seem to have an almost glee in not wanting to know.

IMO, they have now almost completely lost any notion of society, individualism is seemingly the only thing that matters. Many feel that compromise and understanding are bad concepts, might is right and my opinion is as valid as any facts. And Trump is the very epitome of that.

No rules, never apologise and only look out for yourself or those that agree with you.

The next election will be very telling. I can understand, if not agree with, the feeling of many to take a chance on Trump in 2016. Particularly given that many really had a visceral hatred of HC. But Trump has shown that he isn't the saviour that many thought he could be so will they continue on this path or look to reset?

I think it is very likely, and the polls would back this up to a large extent, that they aren't in any rush to reset and see little wrong with Trump. So much like Brexit, at some point we simply have to accept that the US has changed, or at least now openly embraces what was previously contained.

It might not be the perfect representation of the entire country, but it really sums up a significantly large portion of what is sometimes called middle America, or the Bible Belt areas, it is a country unlike any other because the width between the opposites is the most of anywhere.

It is a county with such distance between the haves and the have nots, between the educated and the uneducated, between the forward thinkers and the Backward thinkers.

It has the biggest distance and inability for common ground in so many areas such as political parties and Candidates, from gun rights to human rights, it possess some of the most racist people in the world as well as the most tolerant. The highly intelligent and the stupidly dumb. It is a country that can produce a bill gates while others eat tide pods. It is driven by media whose agenda falls not in the middle but in the pro or anti trump camp.

We judge Trump against our own leaders, we contrast his class against our history of excellent presidents, and his intellect against our own Politicians, many of whom are fine capable statesmen. But our view of his standards benchmarked on what we are used to is irrelevant, because enough American people revere him, Are comfortable being represented by him and don’t seek the neutral ground where his performance is intellectually criticised, let alone the side where he is overly slated.

Dont forget this is the country that elected Bush Jnr. Twice.

Stateofyou

lawrencesummers wrote: »

You should all sit down at watch Tiger King. It’s a perfect representation of what is wrong with American society and culture, how uneducated a large portion of the country is, where their values lie and their approach to life.

You will quickly realise that America not only deserves to have Trump in Charge but they are lucky to have him.

You're basing an entire culture of 330 million people from a ridiculous Netflix show? Your comment reeks of prejudice.

Blueshoe

Danno wrote: »

Seriously?

Who signs Irish welfare cheques... have a closer look:



Is our Social Welfare minister "out of control"?

Some people :rolleyes:

I'd say that is a clear checkmate to you sir. Well played

lawrencesummers

Stateofyou wrote: »

You're basing an entire culture of 330 million people from a ridiculous Netflix show? Your comment reeks of prejudice.

You should try reading it again.

rapul

Blueshoe wrote: »

I'd say that is a clear checkmate to you sir. Well played

No it's not.

dogbert27

00:40 When someone sneezes I bail! :pac:

01:18 The Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus and it is their new hoax! :rolleyes:

Christy42

Danno wrote: »

Seriously?

Who signs Irish welfare cheques... have a closer look:



Is our Social Welfare minister "out of control"?

Some people :rolleyes:

How long was your cheque delayed for? Which appears to be the important point.

Stateofyou

lawrencesummers wrote: »

You should try reading it again.

And why should I do that. Once was more than enough.

greenfield21

operation gridlock in Michigan protesting about the extension of lockdown until the end of April. I think we should do the same here the people have had enough.

https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1250451713682784259

Carfacemandog

Danno wrote: »

Seriously?

Who signs Irish welfare cheques... have a closer look:



Is our Social Welfare minister "out of control"?

Some people :rolleyes:

I don't see Leo Varadkars name anywhere on that cheque, can you point me to it and let me know how long everyone on welfare had their payments delayed in order for Leo to insist his name be slapped on it somewhere?

dogbert27

His attitude as the "leader of the free world" is seriously disturbing

greenfield21

greenfield21 wrote: »

operation gridlock in Michigan protesting about the extension of lockdown until the end of April. I think we should do the same here the people have had enough.

https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1250451713682784259

People may be sick of it but most recognise the necessity of the measures. It's not a matter of economies closing for the fun of it.

dogbert27

greenfield21 wrote: »

operation gridlock in Michigan protesting about the extension of lockdown until the end of April. I think we should do the same here the people have had enough.

https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1250451713682784259

They're protesting lockdown but telling everyone to stay isolated in their vehicles, do not park and walk! :rolleyes:

TAKE ACTION IN LANSING.

Not on foot - STAY in your VEHICLES!

People always say: "Conservatives never protest because they are too busy working."

Well, guess what. You're not working-- so it's time to PROTEST.

Everyone, every citizen, every business owner needs to get out of their house, out of their chair and get in their car, or truck, or anything that is legal to drive on taxpayer funded roads. Then drive to Lansing to circle the Michigan Capitol Building at 100 N. Capitol Avenue at noon on April 15.

Come prepared for a traffic jam in Lansing! We WANT gridlock.

High NOON drive around the Capitol- honk horns, paint cars or bring signs. SHOW UP.

Do not park and walk - stay in your vehicles!

lawrencesummers

Stateofyou wrote: »

And why should I do that. Once was more than enough.

To eliminate what you misunderstood

biko

greenfield21 wrote: »

operation gridlock in Michigan protesting about the extension of lockdown until the end of April. [/url]

They should just leave their cars and shake hands and hug each other. Now that would be a protest.