Championship and Covid

TCDStudent1

beggars_bush wrote: »

So when can counties can start club championships?

I doubt there will be any change to the end of July. The difficulty is that teams have been doing different levels of training etc. I would think it is unfair to ask teams to go straight into club championship before this. A more likely scenario is that you see teams play a few challenges in July now leading up to the c'ship.

C__MC

You would think it will be full contact from Monday week on rather than non contact

Perhaps official games could start one week earlier following yesterday's announcement

How are the GAA going to manage suspected cases though?

Kerrydude1981

The following changes to the return to activity guidelines are being made after recommendations made by the Covid-19 Advisory Committee this morning.

These changes were subsequently endorsed by the GAA, the Camogie Association and the LGFA.

This week:

Open pitches for Adult training next Wednesday, June 24th.
Open for Minor and below from Saturday, June 27th.
Both of the above on a non-contact basis and on the understanding that players and all participants have completed the eLearning module and are following the control measures in place (health questionnaire etc).
On the basis of a maximum of 15 players in a designated area of the field (26 Counties) and 10 players in a designated area of the field (6 Counties).
Coaching numbers for underage teams to be consistent with Code of Behaviour.
From June 29th:

Allow contact training and challenge games for all from Monday, June 29th (26 Counties).
We await guidance from the NI Executive in relation to 6 Counties – non-contact training in the numbers outlined above in the interim.
We also await clarification on what will constitute a close contact versus a casual contact.
Restriction on participants only attending training sessions to be relaxed from June 29th – subject to government specified maximum of 200 people in the ground.
Allow Club Fixtures from Friday July 17th.
No change to inter-county dates (Sept 14th for training; competitions to start on Oct 17th as planned).
All control measures for players, coaches and other team personnel (completion of health questionnaire, eLearning education etc) is to remain in place until advised otherwise; dressing rooms to remain closed until July 20th
The Advisory Committee is considering the position in relation to other GAA buildings (such as Club bars that are serving food, Gyms, Handball alleys etc). Guidance will be provided in this context before June 29th.
https://www.gaa.ie/news/covid-19-update-x5299/

Kerrydude1981

Hawkeye9212

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

If the knockout happens hopefully it reminds people that knockout is the way to go later in the year and those quarter final groups can die forever.

The GAA wants to move away from the provincial structure and go for an open draw but the power of the provincial councils is too strong. Hurling would be better if it were open draw. They seem to prefer the idea of rebalanced provinces but the only counties which could be moved are the exile counties of London and New York.

Move New York into Ulster and London in Leinster. That would give Ulster and Leinster 10 and 12 counties respectively. Connacht will have 5 teams and Munster will have 6 teams. Each province can have a group stage. The provincial champions go into the All-Ireland series which is straight knockout.

It's a rubbish solution but it keeps everyone happy.

The Lost Sheep

Hawkeye9212 wrote: »

The GAA wants to move away from the provincial structure and go for an open draw but the power of the provincial councils is too strong. Hurling would be better if it were open draw. They seem to prefer the idea of rebalanced provinces but the only counties which could be moved are the exile counties of London and New York.

Move New York into Ulster and London in Leinster. That would give Ulster and Leinster 10 and 12 counties respectively. Connacht will have 5 teams and Munster will have 6 teams. Each province can have a group stage. The provincial champions go into the All-Ireland series which is straight knockout.

It's a rubbish solution but it keeps everyone happy.

getting rid of provincial competitions isnt a good thing. Change their role in the all Ireland series but keep them. For most counties it's their only real chance of success

Hawkeye9212

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

getting rid of provincial competitions isnt a good thing. Change their role in the all Ireland series but keep them. For most counties it's their only real chance of success

I'd be inclined to agree but they need to move with the times and adopt a group stage so every team has at least 4 or 5 games like the hurlers. The All-Ireland series should be straight knockout. Jim McGuinness put out a proposal a few years back. I thought it was a good idea which preserved the provincial championships.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-how-i-would-reinvigorate-football-championship-1.2241993

The format I proposed could be tweaked to keep NY in Connacht. Move London to Leinster and split each province into groups of 3. Double round-robin. The provincial champions go into the All-Ireland semi-finals. Just to give an example for my own province of Ulster.

Group A: Donegal, Monaghan, Derry.

Group B: Tyrone, Cavan, Down.

Group C: Armagh, Fermanagh, Antrim.


Leinster would look like this.

Group A: Dublin, Westmeath, London.

Group B: Meath, Laois, Offaly.

Group C: Kildare, Longford, Wicklow.

Group Louth, Carlow, Wexford.

ArmaniJeanss

Any solution which puts a maximum (and a minimum) of one from each province into the semi-finals is a huge backward step.

If Cork & Kerry or Armagh & Tyrone happen to be the two best teams in the country in any year then the system should allow them to meet in the All-Ireland Final.
Conversely if any province doesn't have any team good enough to be in the Top 4 then they shouldn't get a guaranteed semi-finalist.

Hawkeye9212

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Any solution which puts a maximum (and a minimum) of one from each province into the semi-finals is a huge backward step.

If Cork & Kerry or Armagh & Tyrone happen to be the two best teams in the country in any year then the system should allow them to meet in the All-Ireland Final.
Conversely if any province doesn't have any team good enough to be in the Top 4 then they shouldn't get a guaranteed semi-finalist.

Those teams will get out of their provinces if they are good enough. An open draw championship won't tackle the divide in football. We already have a tiered competition so I don't have any interest in a Tier 2 championship.

Cork and Kerry will face each other this year and it will even better because there is no backdoor. You could always put the losing finalists into the All-Ireland series as well like the hurling if you want more teams.

rom

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

The following changes to the return to activity guidelines are being made after recommendations made by the Covid-19 Advisory Committee this morning.

These changes were subsequently endorsed by the GAA, the Camogie Association and the LGFA.

This week:

Open pitches for Adult training next Wednesday, June 24th.
Open for Minor and below from Saturday, June 27th.
Both of the above on a non-contact basis and on the understanding that players and all participants have completed the eLearning module and are following the control measures in place (health questionnaire etc).
On the basis of a maximum of 15 players in a designated area of the field (26 Counties) and 10 players in a designated area of the field (6 Counties).
Coaching numbers for underage teams to be consistent with Code of Behaviour.
From June 29th:

Allow contact training and challenge games for all from Monday, June 29th (26 Counties).
We await guidance from the NI Executive in relation to 6 Counties – non-contact training in the numbers outlined above in the interim.
We also await clarification on what will constitute a close contact versus a casual contact.
Restriction on participants only attending training sessions to be relaxed from June 29th – subject to government specified maximum of 200 people in the ground.
Allow Club Fixtures from Friday July 17th.
No change to inter-county dates (Sept 14th for training; competitions to start on Oct 17th as planned).
All control measures for players, coaches and other team personnel (completion of health questionnaire, eLearning education etc) is to remain in place until advised otherwise; dressing rooms to remain closed until July 20th
The Advisory Committee is considering the position in relation to other GAA buildings (such as Club bars that are serving food, Gyms, Handball alleys etc). Guidance will be provided in this context before June 29th.
https://www.gaa.ie/news/covid-19-update-x5299/

Sad to see that is being completely ignored here in Cork. I live near a big park where for the last 2 days 3 or 4 full panels of almost 30 players have been training on multiple occasions. They are soccer pitches as the GAA ground is closed. 4 or 5 coaches and a few people looking on. Minor/senior and underage teams. There is no contact but social distancing is non existence.

Coillte_Bhoy

Hawkeye9212 wrote: »

Those teams will get out of their provinces if they are good enough. An open draw championship won't tackle the divide in football. We already have a tiered competition so I don't have any interest in a Tier 2 championship.

Cork and Kerry will face each other this year and it will even better because there is no backdoor. You could always put the losing finalists into the All-Ireland series as well like the hurling if you want more teams.

No they wont, only one of them will

PTH2009

When will we see the Intercounty formats and fixtures coming out ??

Hawkeye9212

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

No they wont, only one of them will

That's what I said.

I'd be all for separating the provincials from the All-Ireland series and having an open drawn championship but the GAA couldn't even bring themselves to do it during Covid. My preference would be a group stage. The bottom 16 teams can go into a Tier 2 competition if counties still want it.

arctictree

rom wrote: »

Sad to see that is being completely ignored here in Cork. I live near a big park where for the last 2 days 3 or 4 full panels of almost 30 players have been training on multiple occasions. They are soccer pitches as the GAA ground is closed. 4 or 5 coaches and a few people looking on. Minor/senior and underage teams. There is no contact but social distancing is non existence.

I train a group of under 10s. Training is starting next week and all parents are supposed to have done the covid 19 course. Only one parent in my group has done it.

BonnieSituation

Any system that keeps the provincials as a route to the All-Ireland series is not an upgrade on what we have.

The Lost Sheep

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Any system that keeps the provincials as a route to the All-Ireland series is not an upgrade on what we have.

it can be. Provincial competitions should be kept. So much could be solved by cutting number of weeks it takes to play provincial competitions. You can then give counties more games as well as find more time for clubs.
Provincial titles are most counties only chance of success against bigger counties as they may shock a division 1 side even if these chances dont come around too much.
Why get rid of them. The provincial competitions aren't the issue. It's the time they take to complete etc which is the problem

BonnieSituation

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

it can be. Provincial competitions should be kept. So much could be solved by cutting number of weeks it takes to play provincial competitions. You can then give counties more games as well as find more time for clubs.
Provincial titles are most counties only chance of success against bigger counties as they may shock a division 1 side even if these chances dont come around too much.
Why get rid of them. The provincial competitions aren't the issue. It's the time they take to complete etc which is the problem

Keep them all you want.

LINKING them to the championship is the issue.

irishgeo

Anyone who things Connacht teams are going to give up new York are mad. Mayo and Galway make a mint in fundraising with the trip over every 5 years.

The Lost Sheep

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Keep them all you want.

LINKING them to the championship is the issue.

There can be some form of link to the all Ireland but really the whole structure of season needs fixing. Nearly all counties play more games in February and March than all other months of the year is wrong. You can keep provincial competitions in summer if you change everything about the intercounty season structure.

BonnieSituation

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

There can be some form of link to the all Ireland but really the whole structure of season needs fixing. Nearly all counties play more games in February and March than all other months of the year is wrong. You can keep provincial competitions in summer if you change everything about the intercounty season structure.

Any "ENTRY" link is stupid though.

Seriously, why bother changing it at all in that case?

I sarcastically posted earlier in this thread about how backdoors are a sham:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=113653958#post113653958


If the Provincials NEED to be kept then they should either be the pre-season tournament instead of the O'Byrne etc or they should be the secondary competition you get put into after getting knocked out of the All-Ireland series.

Provincial championships made sense in the early 20th century given the strife and difficulty getting around the country.

A fully fledged knock out All-Ireland Championship creates tension and value to every single match played. The single most important thing in sport is the value of the fixture. Increasing this value on a per game basis will revitalise the Championship.

Seeding the first round draw based on the League results will then add more value to the League as well. And tbh, as it stands the League is by far the better competition at this stage.

The Lost Sheep

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Any "ENTRY" link is stupid though.

Seriously, why bother changing it at all in that case?

I sarcastically posted earlier in this thread about how backdoors are a sham:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=113653958#post113653958


If the Provincials NEED to be kept then they should either be the pre-season tournament instead of the O'Byrne etc or they should be the secondary competition you get put into after getting knocked out of the All-Ireland series.

Provincial championships made sense in the early 20th century given the strife and difficulty getting around the country.

A fully fledged knock out All-Ireland Championship creates tension and value to every single match played. The single most important thing in sport is the value of the fixture. Increasing this value on a per game basis will revitalise the Championship.

Seeding the first round draw based on the League results will then add more value to the League as well. And tbh, as it stands the League is by far the better competition at this stage.

there should be no pre season competitions in any form. Just let counties play the friendlies they already play. Provincial cups as straight knockout is win win. Counties have a chance of winning something they otherwise wont. If you remove them even more counties have nothing really to try win.

The bigger/stronger counties might'nt always field their strongest side in the provincial cups but that would allow more chance for shocks. It's ridiculous you have the league finished in its entirety before provincial competitions start and that leads on to all Ireland. The whole structure makes zero sense.

Every game played dorsnt have to have all this 'meaning' built up around it.

Hawkeye9212

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

there should be no pre season competitions in any form. Just let counties play the friendlies they already play. Provincial cups as straight knockout is win win. Counties have a chance of winning something they otherwise wont. If you remove them even more counties have nothing really to try win.

The bigger/stronger counties might'nt always field their strongest side in the provincial cups but that would allow more chance for shocks. It's ridiculous you have the league finished in its entirety before provincial competitions start and that leads on to all Ireland. The whole structure makes zero sense.

Every game played dorsnt have to have all this 'meaning' built up around it.

The provincials will have to be separated from the All-Ireland series at some point. Same for hurling if they want to grow the sport. A straight knockout championship isn't realistic either. Football will have a group stage if hurling does because footballers will be asking why they only get to play one game and the hurlers at all levels play 3 or 4 minimum.

The 8 groups of 4 (feck NY) with top 2 into knockout senior championship and bottom 2 into knockout intermediate is so perfect it’s mental we’re still stuck with the provinces and the convoluted B rubbish that was coming in this year. Especially when you made the games with the last 8 into a league and took any bite out of them just as things were meant to heat up.

Round robins early, proper knockout games late. Great year to try the knockout element of it at least.

Sultan of Bling

ReginaldSmythV wrote:

The 8 groups of 4 (feck NY) with top 2 into knockout senior championship and bottom 2 into knockout intermediate is so perfect it’s mental we’re still stuck with the provinces and the convoluted B rubbish that was coming in this year. Especially when you made the games with the last 8 into a league and took any bite out of them just as things were meant to heat up.

ReginaldSmythV wrote:

Round robins early, proper knockout games late.

Agree.

Was finding the qualifiers more entertaining than the super 8s.

Was finding the league more exciting than the championship.

Something seriously wrong there.

The Lost Sheep

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

The 8 groups of 4 (feck NY) with top 2 into knockout senior championship and bottom 2 into knockout intermediate is so perfect it’s mental we’re still stuck with the provinces and the convoluted B rubbish that was coming in this year. Especially when you made the games with the last 8 into a league and took any bite out of them just as things were meant to heat up.

Round robins early, proper knockout games late. Great year to try the knockout element of it at least.

you dont need to get rid of the provincial competitions with any of these proposals. You can keep them and keep their history and give sides games against local rivals which cant just be got rid of which would happen if theres no provincial competitions.

BonnieSituation

Hawkeye9212 wrote: »

The provincials will have to be separated from the All-Ireland series at some point. Same for hurling if they want to grow the sport. A straight knockout championship isn't realistic either. Football will have a group stage if hurling does because footballers will be asking why they only get to play one game and the hurlers at all levels play 3 or 4 minimum.

It's not "one game". It's just one championship game. The league is there. Dragging out a championship to reward failure is nonsensical.

...

BonnieSituation

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

you dont need to get rid of the provincial competitions with any of these proposals. You can keep them and keep their history and give sides games against local rivals which cant just be got rid of which would happen if theres no provincial competitions.

Again. No one is saying get rid of the provincials; what's being said is that we need to get rid of the link between provincials and entry into the all Ireland series.

sgthighway

If we are going to keep the Provincial System we need to start rotating New York and London around to other provinces. Share the wealth and the debt associated with those trips.

Hawkeye9212

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It's not "one game". It's just one championship game. The league is there. Dragging out a championship to reward failure is nonsensical.

A group stage followed by a knockout stage doesn't reward failure. That is a stupid thing to say.