Whatever happened to the housing crisis ?

Topgear on Dave

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Total BS. I rented for years while paying my own way. Have you tried to rent anywhere around Dublin city in the fast few years?

INSANE prices are (well probably were) being charged.

I lived through the 70’s, 80’s and 00’s. Nothing you can tell me about struggling. Every generation has a struggle. They must learn to live within their means and exercise personal responsibility.

hatrickpatrick

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Bullsh!t. Many hard working, full time career folk I know who finished college during the recession had to move back in with their families at the tail ends of their twenties just in the last two years, because from around early 2018 onwards, rents hyperinflated to utterly indefensible levels and people's lives started being utterly decimated as a result. That cohort of folks played a large part in driving the results of the most recent general election.

Somebody being forced to forgo their independence because their rent has increased by four figure sums in a short space of time while their take home pay has not cannot be accused of being responsible for the mess they are in. It's a bullsh!t argument. Those who are choosing to fleece people are responsible for this crisis, not the people being fleeced and being forced out of their homes as a result.

I lived with my parents until I got married. My kids lived with me until they were able to afford their desired home. We took personal responsibility. Lived within our means.

hatrickpatrick

Deleted User wrote: »

I lived with my parents until I got married. My kids lived with me until they were able to afford their desired home. We took personal responsibility. Lived within our means.

You're not getting it. People are not ok with their means declining over time despite working longer and harder, because inflation in the cost of living is outstripping wage inflation. To tell people that they could expect to afford flat or house shares during their college years on part time incomes but not now when they're working 9-5 is simply not acceptable to the vast majority of people. You can't slash peoples' quality of life and expect them not to revolt. It just doesn't work that way. You may have lived at home until you got married, but this generation already moved out earlier in this decade, and are being forced to reverse those steps towards a better quality of life because everything is becoming so obscenely expensive.

You can make excuses for that all you like, but the bottom line remains the same. A declining quality of life results in social and political upheaval. That's exactly what we're seeing right now and what we will continue to see unless the decline is halted.

tayto lover

Not only the Housing Crisis.
I spent two nights in hospital lately, not Corona, and I was the only one in a 4 person ward.
Where are all the trolley hoggers? Not a sign of them.

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

I lived through the 70’s, 80’s and 00’s. Nothing you can tell me about struggling. Every generation has a struggle. They must learn to live within their means and exercise personal responsibility.

they already do learn those, it doesn't change the fact there is a housing crisis.

Deleted User wrote: »

I lived with my parents until I got married. My kids lived with me until they were able to afford their desired home. We took personal responsibility. Lived within our means.

no different to the vast vast majority of people.
still doesn't change the reality however.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

no different to the vast vast majority of people.
still doesn't change the reality however.

The reality that approximately 500 properties have become available to the rental market in Dublin alone since Covid 19 lockdown. Properties that were built for private dwelling but used as business ventures.

cj maxx

Will covid19 put a end to the co- habitation plan of building?
Surely that notion won't see the light of day now
Or ever?

efanton

Deleted User wrote: »

The reality that approximately 500 properties have become available to the rental market in Dublin alone since Covid 19 lockdown. Properties that were built for private dwelling but used as business ventures.

Maybe that has a lot to do with with prospective buyers or renters not being able to view homes. Who is going to enter into a contract when they are still uncertain as to whether they actually still have a job once restrictions are lifted and can afford it?

Banks have already prevented already approved mortgages from being drawn down
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/couples-mortgage-blocked-over-covid-19-wage-subsidy-996027.html

The reality of 500 homes being empty is a temporary reality. As soon as the restrictions are lifted those 500 homes will either be sold off or get new tenants.
The housing crisis will still be there waiting for the next government to solve it.

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

The reality that approximately 500 properties have become available to the rental market in Dublin alone since Covid 19 lockdown. Properties that were built for private dwelling but used as business ventures.

available yes, accessible for obvious reasons, nope.
any availability of those properties will likely only be temporary anyway as when the lockdown is lifted those properties will be no doubt a mix of sold off, snapped up quite quickly, and some may even return to the airbnb market.

robinbird

end of the road wrote: »

available yes, accessible for obvious reasons, nope.
any availability of those properties will likely only be temporary anyway as when the lockdown is lifted those properties will be no doubt a mix of sold off, snapped up quite quickly, and some may even return to the airbnb market.

The primary driving factor in increasing rent prices in the last few years has been the massive subsidy that the government has been paying to private landlords. It is currently around one billion euro a year and was rising.

However if FG does not have the money or is restricted in increasing this it might lead to a small reduction in rents. i.e Eoghan Murphy took a significant number of airbnbs off the market in last month but he didn't have the finances to take them all so the increased supply might lead to a reduction in rents.

efanton

robinbird wrote: »

The primary driving factor in increasing rent prices in the last few years has been the massive subsidy that the government has been paying to private landlords. It is currently around one billion euro a year and was rising.

However if FG does not have the money or is restricted in increasing this it might lead to a small reduction in rents. i.e Eoghan Murphy took a significant number of airbnbs off the market in last month but he didn't have the finances to take them all so the increased supply might lead to a reduction in rents.

But the framework document and FF proposals clearly state that they intend to increase the amount of long term leasing from the private sector.
They will lease housing over a 25 year period rather than use that money to actually build housing.

robinbird

efanton wrote: »

But the framework document and FF proposals clearly state that they intend to increase the amount of long term leasing from the private sector.
They will lease housing over a 25 year period rather than use that money to actually build housing.

That is the intention and if they are able to do that it will take supply out of the rental market and keep rent levels high. However the hope is that they won't have the financial resources available to do it at a large enough scale or that they might even be forced to reduce the landlords subventions if there is a recession

Handing over a billion euro a year to private landlords may become increasingly unsustainable and difficult to justify.
That's the hope.

markodaly

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Because there's been a drop in demand right now for the reason I just outlined. As soon as quarantine is over, they're going to shoot right back up because we still won't have enough units.

Are you betting on a 'V' shaped recovery because your scenario will only play out if that is the recovery we have.

Most economists are thinking at best we have a 'U' shaped recovery or maybe like a Nike 'Swoosh' type recovery or perhaps even a depressions for a while.
In those circumstances, rents will fall.

Atlantic Dawn

Best time in 20 years to buy coming within the next 6 months, will be almost impossible to get a mortgage though.

Topgear on Dave

If..... IF you have a job.

robinbird

markodaly wrote: »

A
Most economists are thinking at best we have a 'U' shaped recovery or maybe like a Nike 'Swoosh' type recovery or perhaps even a depressions for a while.
In those circumstances, rents will fall.

Rents will definitely fall. And significantly. But only if governments ability to further interfere in the rental market is limited by financial constraints.

efanton

robinbird wrote: »

Rents will definitely fall. And significantly. But only if governments ability to further interfere in the rental market is limited by financial constraints.

I dont think that will happen at all.

There are empty housing units at the movement, but the government is currently housing hundred, possibly thousands, of people in hotels and B&B's for isolation purposes.

Add to that that many people who are looking to rent cant at the moment because of travel restriction and the worry of whether they will have a job once restriction are lifted.

Then you have the landlords themselves. Will they be prepared to significantly cut their income over a long term period? Dont forget if a landlord cuts his rent by 40% or indeed any significant amount, it will mean they cannot reset their rent to normal levels once the epidemic has passed. Instead they will have to increase their rents on a yearly basis by the allowed 4% meaning it will take decades for rents they will be charging to return to current levels.
Faced with that prospect landlords will either be very reluctant to reduce rents significantly, or choose to sell their properties and exit the rental sector.

AndyBoBandy

I know it’s been said and done to death etc.....

But what I find infuriating (and I make no apologies for doing so) was the girl I saw on TV a few days ago.

She’s in a ‘desperate’ situation because she’s had to move into her mothers 2 bed house during Covid-19, and has been on the housing list for the last 8 years.

She has an 8 year old, a 6 year old and a 4 year old, so that’s 2 kids conceived and born while on the housing list, putting additional strain on her and her mother and whoever else provided her previous accommodation over the previous 8 years.

So how in the fcuk is that the Government’s fault? How has the Government failed her? Why should I, as a taxpayer now have to pay for a bigger house for this girl than was originally needed or sufficient for her circumstances.

Go ahead, I await your slating....

Blueshoe

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I know it’s been said and done to death etc.....

But what I find infuriating (and I make no apologies for doing so) was the girl I saw on TV a few days ago.

She’s in a ‘desperate’ situation because she’s had to move into her mothers 2 bed house during Covid-19, and has been on the housing list for the last 8 years.

She has an 8 year old, a 6 year old and a 4 year old, so that’s 2 kids conceived and born while on the housing list, putting additional strain on her and her mother and whoever else provided her previous accommodation over the previous 8 years.

So how in the fcuk is that the Government’s fault? How has the Government failed her? Why should I, as a taxpayer now have to pay for a bigger house for this girl than was originally needed or sufficient for her circumstances.

Go ahead, I await your slating....

When you alarm clock goes off for work just remember you aren't just going out in the world to earn to cover your own bills. You are also going out to pay hers. Remember that every morning

Jinglejangle69

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I know it’s been said and done to death etc.....

But what I find infuriating (and I make no apologies for doing so) was the girl I saw on TV a few days ago.

She’s in a ‘desperate’ situation because she’s had to move into her mothers 2 bed house during Covid-19, and has been on the housing list for the last 8 years.

She has an 8 year old, a 6 year old and a 4 year old, so that’s 2 kids conceived and born while on the housing list, putting additional strain on her and her mother and whoever else provided her previous accommodation over the previous 8 years.

So how in the fcuk is that the Government’s fault? How has the Government failed her? Why should I, as a taxpayer now have to pay for a bigger house for this girl than was originally needed or sufficient for her circumstances.

Go ahead, I await your slating....

I have been saying this here for years.

This homeless crisis is a myth.

The government hasn't failed anyone.

These people expect a fee house at the expense of us people who work dam hard just to cover out own asses in life

I have no time or sympathy and I feel no responsibility to house them through life.

tabby aspreme

I know of one large, social housing development where work is restarting tomorrow, as it's deemed essential that these houses are finished.
The government haven't forgotten about the shortage of houses

end of the road

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

I have been saying this here for years.

This homeless crisis is a myth.

The government hasn't failed anyone.

These people expect a fee house at the expense of us people who work dam hard just to cover out own asses in life

I have no time or sympathy and I feel no responsibility to house them through life.

it's not a myth.
yes, there are some people abusing and scamming and they must be dealt with, however there are plenty of genuine people effected and we must insure people are helped and not use those who are abusing as an excuse not to deal with issues and to ignore issues.
if people are expecting a free house, then they will eventually find out that there is no such thing.

Gatling

end of the road wrote: »

if people are expecting a free house, then they will eventually find out that there is no such thing.

Tell that to the local authorities who are owed close to 100 million in unpaid rents , roughly a quarter of social housing apparently don't pay rent ,


But,but ,but there is no such thing as a free house unfortunately the facts don't support your claim

end of the road

Gatling wrote: »

Tell that to the local authorities who are owed close to 100 million in unpaid rents , roughly a quarter of social housing apparently don't pay rent ,


But,but ,but there is no such thing as a free house unfortunately the facts don't support your claim

the councils have remedies available, if they do not use them then that is their fault, as much as the person deliberately with-holding rent are responsible for the non-payment of rent.
the house is still not free however as there is an obligation to pay rent.

Jizique

end of the road wrote: »

the councils have remedies available, if they do not use them then that is their fault, as much as the person deliberately with-holding rent are responsible for the non-payment of rent.
the house is still not free however as there is an obligation to pay rent.

Minimal rent; a fraction of the value

end of the road

Jizique wrote: »

Minimal rent; a fraction of the value

still rent, and the agreed rent between the tenant and the council, as decided based on income and any other factors that may be relevant.

Topgear on Dave

end of the road wrote: »

still rent, and the agreed rent between the tenant and the council, as decided based on income and any other factors that may be relevant.

The tenant agrees to pay a rent already decided based on their income and any other factors and yet you say somehow it's the council's fault that it's not all paid.

Would you get up the yard.

Gatling

end of the road wrote: »

the councils have remedies available, if they do not use them then that is their fault, as much as the person deliberately with-holding rent are responsible for the non-payment of rent.
the house is still not free however as there is an obligation to pay rent.

So it's a free house .

Jinglejangle69

Gatling wrote: »

So it's a free house .

You are literally wasting energy, your time and your sanity.

end of the road

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

The tenant agrees to pay a rent already decided based on their income and any other factors and yet you say somehow it's the council's fault that it's not all paid.

Would you get up the yard.

nope, it's the council's fault that they won't use the remedies available to deal with non-payers once it becomes clear that someone is refusing to pay, not that the rent is not paid in the first place, for which is the fault of the non-payer refusing to pay.
perhapse another read of my post will make it clear as it was quite clear what was being said.