Masks

Stark

No: other

weldoninhio wrote: »

Same with seatbelts on aeroplanes. You’re going at 400+ mph and you’ve a tiny strap around your waist that probably wouldn’t get the go ahead in a bumper car.

You're not traveling at 400mph+ relative to anything that's inside the plane :rolleyes: the seatbelt stops people getting injured during bad turbulence/rough landings. Not uncommon for people who aren't strapped in to hit the ceiling during bad turbulence.

Boggles

weldoninhio wrote: »

If all airlines mandated that all male passengers had to wear a condom for the duration of their flight would you propose condoms to be effective too??

Silly.

Dakota Dan

weldoninhio wrote: »

If all airlines mandated that all male passengers had to wear a condom for the duration of their flight would you propose condoms to be effective too??

What is the airline industries record in medical science like?? Have Ryanair many per reviewed medical articles? Lufthansa? American Airlines?

Looking so the very low amount of cases in Czechia, I’m lobbying the Irish govt to mandate that we all speak Czech as they speak Czech in Czechia and it seems to have worked in relation to keeping the virus down.

Imagine having a horn for 14 hours.

xhomelezz

Yes: valved

weldoninhio wrote: »

Looking so the very low amount of cases in Czechia, I’m lobbying the Irish govt to mandate that we all speak Czech as they speak Czech in Czechia and it seems to have worked in relation to keeping the virus down.

You just have to keep posting your silly comments.. The reason for very low cases was strict measures from the start plus face masks. You don't need to be genius to understand that. Reason for relatively high number of cases and deaths in Ireland are half cooked measures from the start. Government and HSE failing miserably and continue doing so.. Their talks if keep 2 metres or 1 meter or 1.5 metres just makes me laugh.

drunkmonkey

No: other

We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.

The New England Journal of Medicine
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372

Away With The Fairies

Yes: valved

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.

The New England Journal of Medicine
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372

Face to face contact within 6 feet with a symptomatic person?

This is the problem, people can be infectious before showing symptoms.

xhomelezz

Yes: valved

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.

The New England Journal of Medicine
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372

And again, idea behind widespread use of masks is not about protecting yourself, but protecting others in case you are positive for Covid-19. I protect you, you protect me.. It's been said so many times, yet people still doesn't understand that wonderful idea. But sure what can you expect after being brainwashed by HSE and government since the start.

2u2me

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.

The New England Journal of Medicine
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372

In the allegory of the long spoons you could also argue its impossible to feed ourselves with those spoons, but that's not the point is it.

drunkmonkey

No: other

xhomelezz wrote: »

And again, idea behind widespread use of masks is not about protecting yourself, but protecting others in case you are positive for Covid-19. I protect you, you protect me.. It's been said so many times, yet people still doesn't understand that wonderful idea. But sure what can you expect after being brainwashed by HSE and government since the start.

They offer little to no protection. There an anxiety device according to the scientists.
Your not protecting anybody any more than if you follow the HSE advice.

Seanergy

Yes: valved

weldoninhio wrote: »

Why would you need a mask at 1m, which is the WHO mandated safe social distance??

Would you ever reel your neck in!

I have replied to all your previous questions in full yet you have not replied to any of my previous questions and yet here we are with you asking more questions.

The covid-19 committee have invited the ECDC and the WHO to Dail discussions on Thursday. Social distancing and possibly mask use shall be discussed then.

The State is operating a delay strategy inline with ECDC and WHO advice.

The ECDC do not recommend face coverings to be worn inside of 1.5 meters for health reasons. SCRNSHT below. Visit the ECDC website, get educated.

The WHO on the other hand has spoken very little on facecoverings and masks as the WHO has been trying to protect supply of N95's and higher grade respirators from the 2nd week in feburary for HCW's and will continue to do so for the forseable future. 2nd SCRNSHT is of projected stats for the year 2020 with regard to N95 masks.

No doubt demand will continue to rise for N95 masks and higher grade respirators as health care systems worldwide realise that surgical masks were not protecting HCW's as much as N95's in the 1st wave.

xhomelezz

Yes: valved

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They offer little to no protection. There an anxiety device according to the scientists.
Your not protecting anybody any more than if you follow the HSE advice.

If you bother to read through this topic and plenty of links provided, you would know that's simply not true..

drunkmonkey

No: other

xhomelezz wrote: »

If you bother to read through this topic and plenty of links provided, you would know that's simply not true..

I have and I don't see the point. What I'm witnessing from the General public daily using masks is they have in general no clue how to wear them safely. The majority wearing them are in the 70+ age group who now see them as a licence to go anywhere.

You mentioned the HSE brainwashing people, that's not correct, their advice is adaquate. It's the media pushing the masks agenda.
If the virus is so active in the community that masks are required we have a big problem as the masks don't prevent you getting or passing on the virus. There just 1 item in a long list of ways to safeguard yourself and there by no means top of the list.

trapp

Unless in a very crowded public space wearing a mask in Ireland is pointless.

We've all made huge sacrifices.

This is a step too far and not really needed.

I've seen people walking around practically empty shops, out for a walk on an empty road, driving alone in the car and so on with masks on.

Anyone with a brain knows there is a big difference between a crowded Luas at rush hour and browsing Tesco on a Tuesday evening.

There is a time and place for masks.

Mostly in Ireland it's just being overly dramatic and not needed.

Away With The Fairies

Yes: valved

Of course masks are needed. They hold in someone's cough, sneeze or even breath as they talk.

trapp

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Of course masks are needed. They hold in someone's cough, sneeze or even breath as they talk.

in Ireland we seem to have decided they are not needed

you can slink around in your mask and hazmat suits all you want

xhomelezz

Yes: valved

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I have and I don't see the point. What I'm witnessing from the General public daily using masks is they have in general no clue how to wear them safely. The majority wearing them are in the 70+ age group who now see them as a licence to go anywhere.

You mentioned the HSE brainwashing people, that's not correct, their advice is adaquate. It's the media pushing the masks agenda.
If the virus is so active in the community that masks are required we have a big problem as the masks don't prevent you getting or passing on the virus. There just 1 item in a long list of ways to safeguard yourself and there by no means top of the list.

Adequate? Really? I'm sorry mate, but they f..ed up since the start. That's why Ireland got so many cases and so many deaths. And as I see media, they not pushing anything, they just play along with HSE. And everyone is happy how good we did.. yeah my arse good. If they were any good, they would implement strict measures from the start and country would be somewhere else by now. But no, that would be too easy and straightforward. And yes masks are part of measures and should be on the top of the list together with hand hygiene, social distancing etc.

Seanergy

Yes: valved

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I have and I don't see the point. What I'm witnessing from the General public daily using masks is they have in general no clue how to wear them safely. The majority wearing them are in the 70+ age group who now see them as a licence to go anywhere.

You mentioned the HSE brainwashing people, that's not correct, their advice is adaquate. It's the media pushing the masks agenda.
If the virus is so active in the community that masks are required we have a big problem as the masks don't prevent you getting or passing on the virus. There just 1 item in a long list of ways to safeguard yourself and there by no means top of the list.

You are talking monkey jibberish...

Masks are joint top of the list of NPI meaasures alongside hand hygiene, the rest of the measures have very low to no quality of evidence.

barrymanilow

Yes: other

trapp wrote: »

Unless in a very crowded public space wearing a mask in Ireland is pointless.

We've all made huge sacrifices.

This is a step too far and not really needed.

I've seen people walking around practically empty shops, out for a walk on an empty road, driving alone in the car and so on with masks on.

Anyone with a brain knows there is a big difference between a crowded Luas at rush hour and browsing Tesco on a Tuesday evening.

There is a time and place for masks.

Mostly in Ireland it's just being overly dramatic and not needed.

I was in the cue for Lidl the other day. I decided not to go with the mask anymore as I thought it was overkill at this stage. The guy in front of me in the cue was coughing his lungs out. I went back to the car and got the mask.

Bacchus

Yes: valved

trapp wrote: »

Unless in a very crowded public space wearing a mask in Ireland is pointless.

We've all made huge sacrifices.

This is a step too far and not really needed.

I've seen people walking around practically empty shops, out for a walk on an empty road, driving alone in the car and so on with masks on.

Anyone with a brain knows there is a big difference between a crowded Luas at rush hour and browsing Tesco on a Tuesday evening.

There is a time and place for masks.

Mostly in Ireland it's just being overly dramatic and not needed.

I'm on the fence about masks myself but got a couple of cloth ones in case I'm in a situation where I know I'm going to be in close contact or in a crowded space. I personally don't feel I've made a sacrifice by doing this. It will depend on how the restrictions ease really. Supermarkets are just manageable to keep distance at the moment, but if that changes, or if people start to get complacent cutting across me, standing right next to me, etc. I'll probably start wearing one. It also depends on if the community rates stay low. There's a lot of factors, and right now I can respect people erring on the side of caution... as long as they are doing it right. Some people go around with masks half or, or are holding a tissue to their face and I feel like telling them to either do it right, or don't do it at all.

To your point about people wearing them on street or in the car... They may be going to multiple shops, and rather than taking on and off the mask (which you're not supposed to do) they keep it on between stops. That's my guess (for some of them). I don't doubt though that some are just wearing it all the time (and I've seen that - e.g. on a walk in a wooded area) and that's where better education and information needs to be hammered home to everyone. Same goes for gloves. I find gloves worse than masks TBH, as people seem to think it's an immunity shield but it can be quite the opposite for them, and everyone else.

trapp

barrymanilow wrote: »

I was in the cue for Lidl the other day. I decided not to go with the mask anymore as I thought it was overkill at this stage. The guy in front of me in the cue was coughing his lungs out. I went back to the car and got the mask.

Easier to just avoid the cougher

xhomelezz

Yes: valved

barrymanilow wrote: »

I was in the cue for Lidl the other day. I decided not to go with the mask anymore as I thought it was overkill at this stage. The guy in front of me in the cue was coughing his lungs out. I went back to the car and got the mask.

You should glue one on that guy in front of you too

trapp

Bacchus wrote: »

I'm on the fence about masks myself but got a couple of cloth ones in case I'm in a situation where I know I'm going to be in close contact or in a crowded space. I personally don't feel I've made a sacrifice by doing this. It will depend on how the restrictions ease really. Supermarkets are just manageable to keep distance at the moment, but if that changes, or if people start to get complacent cutting across me, standing right next to me, etc. I'll probably start wearing one. It also depends on if the community rates stay low. There's a lot of factors, and right now I can respect people erring on the side of caution... as long as they are doing it right. Some people go around with masks half or, or are holding a tissue to their face and I feel like telling them to either do it right, or don't do it at all.

To your point about people wearing them on street or in the car... They may be going to multiple shops, and rather than taking on and off the mask (which you're not supposed to do) they keep it on between stops. That's my guess (for some of them). I don't doubt though that some are just wearing it all the time (and I've seen that - e.g. on a walk in a wooded area) and that's where better education and information needs to be hammered home to everyone. Same goes for gloves. I find gloves worse than masks TBH, as people seem to think it's an immunity shield but it can be quite the opposite for them, and everyone else.

Best that I have seen is an elderly gentleman who removed his mask in Tesco to sneeze.

Then wiped his nose with the mask and put it back on.

Once out of the shop he quickly removed the mask again and stuffed it into his pocket.

drunkmonkey

No: other

xhomelezz wrote: »

Adequate? Really? I'm sorry mate, but they f..ed up since the start. That's why Ireland got so many cases and so many deaths. And as I see media, they not pushing anything, they just play along with HSE. And everyone is happy how good we did.. yeah my arse good. If they were any good, they would implement strict measures from the start and country would be somewhere else by now. But no, that would be too easy and straightforward. And yes masks are part of measures and should be on the top of the list together with hand hygiene, social distancing etc.

Masks could not have prevented what happened, if we want to function normally again masks can't be part of our future except in limited circumstances.
The very people that need protecting are the ones using them incorrectly. It's safer for them not to wear them, the media does not mention the dangers of improper use.

xhomelezz

Yes: valved

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Masks could not have prevented what happened, if we want to function normally again masks can't be part of our future except in limited circumstances.
The very people that need protecting are the ones using them incorrectly. It's safer for them not to wear them, the media does not mention the dangers of improper use.

You are clearly victim of that brainwashing I was mentioning earlier plus media campaign how Ireland is doing great. No one ever said on this topic that masks are The Only Thing That Works, everyone here who backs use of masks knows it's just a part of solution. Getting tired of these discussions, countries who implemented use of masks plus all the important measures early are nearly fully open and number of cases and deaths are much lower in compare to here. That's a fact. If you don't see it, well that's your choice. HSE and the boys in power are lacking ability to make good and fast decisions and we all have to pay for their poor decisions. The whole situation around Covid-19 in Ireland is just a bloody comedy and this topic here just proves it.

drunkmonkey

No: other

xhomelezz wrote: »

You are clearly victim of that brainwashing I was mentioning earlier plus media campaign how Ireland is doing great. No one ever said on this topic that masks are The Only Thing That Works, everyone here who backs use of masks knows it's just a part of solution. Getting tired of these discussions, countries who implemented use of masks plus all the important measures early are nearly fully open and number of cases and deaths are much lower in compare to here. That's a fact. If you don't see it, well that's your choice. HSE and the boys in power are lacking ability to make good and fast decisions and we all have to pay for their poor decisions. The whole situation around Covid-19 in Ireland is just a bloody comedy and this topic here just proves it.

I'd say it's the opposite a mask to me means your living in fear/anxiety, I don't have anxiety or see any need to wear a mask.
Probably lucky to live in one of the places with no new covid in the last 2 weeks I think, and no masks were required to get to that point. Pushing for a national masking decree isn't something I'd support but the likes of the indo are really pushing the agenda.

Idiot articles like the one in the independent today are nothing but fearmongering.

ressem

Yes: homemade

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Masks could not have prevented what happened,

Masks are not a prevention measure, any more than social distancing. It's a case reduction measure.
They are not just a decorative badge.

You might argue that the data is not there, but it can take decades for data to get through a research to cover the common use cases e.g. using mask on patients with Tuberculosis, suggested in 1905, no studies with data until 2012 according to.
(https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10.1164/rccm.201203-0548ED)


We can, extrapolate on based on low numbers and preliminary work. Of the suggested harm reduction measures, getting masks to be worn by a good proportion of the public in workplaces and transport has some data to suggest that it's worth trying.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2

We detected coronavirus in respiratory droplets and aerosols in 3 of 10 (30%) and 4 of 10 (40%) of the samples collected without face masks, respectively, but did not detect any virus in respiratory droplets or aerosols collected from participants wearing face masks, this difference was significant in aerosols and showed a trend toward reduced detection in respiratory droplets (Table 1b). For influenza virus, we detected virus in 6 of 23 (26%) and 8 of 23 (35%) of the respiratory droplet and aerosol samples collected without face masks, respectively. There was a significant reduction by wearing face masks to 1 of 27 (4%) in detection of influenza virus in respiratory droplets, but no significant reduction in detection in aerosols (Table 1b). Moreover, among the eight participants who had influenza virus detected by RT–PCR from without-mask aerosols, five were tested by viral culture and four were culture-positive.

Pre-review.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/340603522_Face_Masks_Against_COVID-19_An_Evidence_Review


And plain old measurement of how air movement, during coughing, is affected by a mask. Ideally you'd want the same for all sorts of breathing, and different ranges of activity to have a definitive understanding.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3516468/

drunkmonkey wrote: »

if we want to function normally again masks can't be part of our future except in limited circumstances.

Why shouldn't they be used to reduce flu spread every year?

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The very people that need protecting are the ones using them incorrectly. It's safer for them not to wear them, the media does not mention the dangers of improper use.

The argument against widespread use was based on damaging the supply to those at highest risk. (arguably a failure of preparation and, with hindsight, budgeting priorities.)

There are dangers to improper social distancing at the most basic level, e.g. people stepping out onto the road or crossing in unsuitable areas to avoid oncoming others. Doesn't mean it should not be practiced when there is data to back up where it works.

drunkmonkey wrote:

I'd say it's the opposite a mask to me means your living in fear/anxiety, I don't have anxiety or see any need to wear a mask.

A nudist could say the same about clothing. I'm not going to start walking to work in bare feet, I must be living in fear/anxiety.

Arrival

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They offer little to no protection. There an anxiety device according to the scientists.
Your not protecting anybody any more than if you follow the HSE advice.

So why are they worn in hospitals?

trapp

Anyone promoting mask wearing post covid needs to give their head a shake.

Anyway great news for the anti mask brigade.

It is clear to see that the irish public have not taken up mask wearing despite a few nutters pushing for everyone to cover their faces.

In a global pandemic masks are useful in limited settings such as packed public transport.

Other than that no need and thankfully the public have been smart about this.

Arrival

trapp wrote: »

Anyone promoting mask wearing post covid needs to give their head a shake.

Anyway great news for the anti mask brigade.

It is clear to see that the irish public have not taken up mask wearing despite a few nutters pushing for everyone to cover their faces.

In a global pandemic masks are useful in limited settings such as packed public transport.

Other than that no need and thankfully the public have been smart about this.

It's actually just sad if you're not trolling saying this kind of stuff. Czechia has twice our population and Slovakia has a similar sized population as us. Both countries are more densely populated than us.


Czechia currently has 9,226 cases and 319 deaths

Slovakia currently has 1,521 cases and 28 deaths

Ireland currently has 24,876 cases and 1,645 deaths

Slovakia implemented mandatory mask wearing indoors basically at the very start and their government were wearing masks from the start while doing all conferences, basically leading by example for their population

Czechia implemented mandatory masks indoors a little bit later, but still managed to do it quick enough to allow them to have a much shorter lockdown than us, they're currently reoppening a lot of things and they're doing much better at containing it than us

Their governmental medical officers and health service experts have said that they attribute this to the high % of mask wearing amongst the population to reduce community spread

But yes, people here encouraging similar usage of masks in order to allow us to slow the spreading and lift the lockdown are nutters for trying to improve our situation by emulating what's helped other countries

xhomelezz

Yes: valved

Arrival wrote: »

It's actually just sad if you're not trolling saying this kind of stuff. Czechia has twice our population and Slovakia has a similar sized population as us. Both countries are more densely populated than us.


Czechia currently has 9,226 cases and 319 deaths

Slovakia currently has 1,521 cases and 28 deaths

Ireland currently has 24,876 cases and 1,645 deaths

Slovakia implemented mandatory mask wearing indoors basically at the very start and their government were wearing masks from the start while doing all conferences, basically leading by example for their population

Czechia implemented mandatory masks indoors a little bit later, but still managed to do it quick enough to allow them to have a much shorter lockdown than us, they're currently reoppening a lot of things and they're doing much better at containing it than us

Their governmental medical officers and health service experts have said that they attribute this to the high % of mask wearing amongst the population to reduce community spread

But yes, people here encouraging similar usage of masks in order to allow us to slow the spreading and lift the lockdown are nutters for trying to improve our situation by emulating what's helped other countries

You are wasting your breath, as you can see, some posters doesn't see this. And makes me to say they don't give a f.. about people who died here. Because of course masks wouldn't do a ****, early strict measures wouldn't do a **** and the rest who shows a bit of worries suffers from panic, anxiety and whatever.. Let's ignore clear facts and give ourselves big celebration on how great we destroyed this virus You can't beat ignorance ever. Cuz at the end it's just a flu