Masks

Sconsey

No: other

dalyboy wrote: »

Oh and why 5 months into the pandemic are these masks so essential? My staff at the local supermarket (300 staff) didn’t have one infection in this 5 months. It’s a mystery isn’t ? Or is it magical ? Not one of them were wearing masks during this time either ? Care to explain why it’s all of a sudden mandatory if it’s already PROVEN that it’s unnecessary?

Totaly clueless, you have not got a clue who has or has not contracted the virus. You have no clue if your staff were asymptomatic, but they could still have been spreading to others.
It's all of a sudden mandatory because the evidence is now overwhelming that masks will reduce the risk of spreading the virus (no one is saying they will eliminate it).

Where is it PROVEN that they are unnecessary? lots of scientific evidence to say that they are effective at reducing the risk of spreading the virus, where is it allready PROVEN that they are unnecessary? Check back in this thread for evidence of the efficacy of masks.

odyssey06

(a) If you need to put out a big fire - you call the fire brigade i.e. extreme measures.

(b) If you need to keep something from catching fire, you need a different sustainable approach.

I think of masks as a (b) type measure.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

I've already addressed your incorrect generalizations in my last post.

Well I'm sharing my genuine experiences of those cultures.

I'm not even saying they don't have a mask culture. I'm sure they wear masks when they think they're sick, but the premise that most people wear masks in public most of the time (which is what we're experiencing currently) being normal in those cultures just simply is not the case.

Overheal

No: I don't care enough

dalyboy wrote: »

Oh and why 5 months into the pandemic are these masks so essential? My staff at the local supermarket (300 staff) didn’t have one infection in this 5 months. It’s a mystery isn’t ? Or is it magical ? Not one of them were wearing masks during this time either ? Care to explain why it’s all of a sudden mandatory if it’s already PROVEN that it’s unnecessary?

I've driven for years without an accident. Does this PROVE that seat-belts are unnecessary? That's the depth and breadth of your logic.

This isn't a case of you the Irish away from the frontlines of a war where you don't need to keep your M1 Garand on you in your sleep, there is no battlefront, if the virus is in the country it can potentially spread anywhere from any number of asymptomatic carriers.

Now, your caseload is fairly low and manageable, in thanks to a whole range of measures, including the lockdown, isolation encouragement, social distancing, feverent hand washing, and mask wearing. Suck it up through the summer and you can patriotically declare the country Covid-free, yes? If you don't think that's a real possibility, then, it's a fair admission to say that the virus could as I've said continue to bounce around from any number of asymptomatic carriers, either importing it into the country or bouncing between joe public. Either option suggests one to continue taking all measures to combat the pandemic, which includes wearing a mask, which has indeed been demonstrated to reduce transmission.

timmy_mallet

Overheal wrote: »

I've driven for years without an accident. Does this PROVE that seat-belts are unnecessary? That's the depth and breadth of your logic.

Non-sequitur. Which is ironic given your accusation of a logical misunderstanding.

lalababa

Yes: surgical

dalyboy wrote: »

Oh and why 5 months into the pandemic are these masks so essential? My staff at the local supermarket (300 staff) didn’t have one infection in this 5 months. It’s a mystery isn’t ? Or is it magical ? Not one of them were wearing masks during this time either ? Care to explain why it’s all of a sudden mandatory if it’s already PROVEN that it’s unnecessary?

Tis amazing, seems to be a phenomenon , that supermarket employee s aren't contracting it .

khalessi

Yes: surgical

lalababa wrote: »

Tis amazing, seems to be a phenomenon , that supermarket employee s aren't contracting it .

In all my local supermarkets Lidl, Aldi, Tesco, Supervalu, and Spar, there are perspex screens, they have been wearing gloves and masks for months, there has been limited numbers allowed in the doors, hand sanitze provided and social distancing.

That's a kinda magic!!!

obi604

I had a look around on google etc but could not find the answer

I know face masks are mandatory on buses etc
When do they become mandatory in indoor spaces such as shops? (does some law have to be signed etc)

Having an argument with a friend on the definitive answer

ednwireland

No: other

obi604 wrote: »

I had a look around on google etc but could not find the answer

I know face masks are mandatory on buses etc
When do they become mandatory in indoor spaces such as shops? (does some law have to be signed etc)

Having an argument with a friend on the definitive answer

as far as i know they are already mandatory its just theres no legal penalty for not doing it until a law is passed (in shops obviously the law was passed for public transport)

harr

obi604 wrote: »

I had a look around on google etc but could not find the answer

I know face masks are mandatory on buses etc
When do they become mandatory in indoor spaces such as shops? (does some law have to be signed etc)

Having an argument with a friend on the definitive answer

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0715/1153527-mandate-calls-for-masks-to-be-mandatory/

is_that_so

No: other

ednwireland wrote: »

as far as i know they are already mandatory its just theres no legal penalty for not doing it until a law is passed (in shops obviously the law was passed for public transport)

It's not the law it's the regulations, the law is already there. All of this comes under the 1947 Health Act and the recent amendments to it. Once they are ready and signed it becomes legally enforceable.

odyssey06

AdamD wrote: »

Well I'm sharing my genuine experiences of those cultures. I'm not even saying they don't have a mask culture. I'm sure they wear masks when they think they're sick, but the premise that most people wear masks in public most of the time (which is what we're experiencing currently) being normal in those cultures just simply is not the case.

Fair point, but it perhaps did create a starting momentum sufficient that while wearing masks may not have been a majority act, it was not seen as a bizarre thing to do either.
Which is what the reaction would have been in Dublin.

Overheal

No: I don't care enough

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Non-sequitur. Which is ironic given your accusation of a logical misunderstanding.

No, it's not a non-sequitur. It follows from your logic that safety measures are not needed because of a low rate of incidents.

MadYaker

Yes: surgical

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Non-sequitur. Which is ironic given your accusation of a logical misunderstanding.

That’s not a non sequitur. Masks = reduced transmission. It’s that simple.

_Brian

Yes: surgical

Really disappointed to see the low uptake of mask wearing locally here in Cavan town.

It’s displays a level of ignorance and disregard for fellow citizens not to do so when asked.

We’re seeing infection rates increase, hospital admissions increase and more and more information daily that even those who have mild cases of Covid19 are seeing longer term serious effects.

I know of a few people with lingering effects including one previously perfectly healthy 12yo kid going for an MRI due to neurological issues post recovery.

People think they are being clever arguing against masks when they are just being ignorant towards society in general.

Jammyd

Yes: surgical

Nipped into Blanchardstown SC yesterday wearing my mask and was slightly shocked there was less than 10% of people in stores or the centre in general wearing them, I had thought this was compulsory from last monday

_Brian

Yes: surgical

Jammyd wrote: »

Nipped into Blanchardstown SC yesterday wearing my mask and was slightly shocked there was less than 10% of people in stores or the centre in general wearing them, I had thought this was compulsory from last monday

It seems while masks are compulsory, intelligence is optional.

odyssey06

_Brian wrote: »

It seems while masks are compulsory, intelligence is optional.

They seem to be in the category of mandatory but not compulsory...

is_that_so

No: other

Jammyd wrote: »

Nipped into Blanchardstown SC yesterday wearing my mask and was slightly shocked there was less than 10% of people in stores or the centre in general wearing them, I had thought this was compulsory from last monday

In Blanchardstown, nah.

is_that_so

No: other

_Brian wrote: »

It seems while masks are compulsory, intelligence is optional.

Reflecting on the inability of others to think like you is time not well-spent. Feeling a need to insult them suggests a touch of obsession about it.

_Kaiser_

is_that_so wrote: »

Reflecting on the inability of others to think like you is time not well-spent. Feeling a need to insult them suggests a touch of obsession about it.

All too common tactic generally these days unfortunately

If someone is not "on message", it means they must be insulted/belittled for the likes.

The way this whole masks thing has turned into an aggressive crusade by some is deeply worrying. We've always had a culture of envy and begrudgery, but social media has ramped this up to 11 - especially during Covid.

Haven't been out in a few days myself but I do need to get a shop in so I'll see what the prevailing mood is before I get out of the car. If a significant number aren't bothering, neither will I. I live in county with 1% of cases, and have never bought into the fear-mongering and hysteria over "de virus".

Sconsey

No: other

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

All too common tactic generally these days unfortunately

If someone is not "on message", it means they must be insulted/belittled for the likes.

The way this whole masks thing has turned into an aggressive crusade by some is deeply worrying. We've always had a culture of envy and begrudgery, but social media has ramped this up to 11 - especially during Covid.

Haven't been out in a few days myself but I do need to get a shop in so I'll see what the prevailing mood is before I get out of the car. If a significant number aren't bothering, neither will I. I live in county with 1% of cases, and have never bought into the fear-mongering and hysteria over "de virus".

You go from arguing that people are insulting and belittling others to declaing masks are driven by fear-mongering and hysterical. Thats a fine line you are walking there yourself.

Anyway what really struck me about your post: you will wear a mask if you see others, but will leave it behind in the car if not too many are wearing masks. I would love to know why this is. Is it that you don't want to stand out in a crowd, or don't want to look stupid? If so that's a piss-poor attitude.

It amazes me that you will have the mask in car and potentially not use it, what is the risk in using it, who gives a damn what some strangers might think of you.

_Kaiser_

Sconsey wrote: »

You go from arguing that people are insulting and belittling others to declaing masks are driven by fear-mongering and hysterical. Thats a fine line you are walking there yourself.

Anyway what really struck me about your post: you will wear a mask if you see others, but will leave it behind in the car if not too many are wearing masks. I would love to know why this is. Is it that you don't want to stand out in a crowd, or don't want to look stupid? If so that's a piss-poor attitude.

It amazes me that you will have the mask in car and potentially not use it, what is the risk in using it, who gives a damn what some strangers might think of you.

It's because I see no need for it personally given the current numbers (and as I've stated previously I find them uncomfortable, hard to breathe in and sweaty), but nor do I want a load of nonsense from busy-bodies while I do my shopping so I'll put up with it if I have to.

Don't give a toss about what people think I look like.

dwayneshintzy

Yes: to protect myself and others

Hong Kong had 28 days with 0 local cases recently. There were 113 new cases today an stringent social distancing measures are being brought back. Just because you feel people are being hysterical, or that your area has few cases so you needn't bother taking preventative measures, doesn't really matter all that much. If people become complacent or feel it's not up to them to bother taking precautions, cases will eventually rise again.

_Kaiser_

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Hong Kong had 28 days with 0 local cases recently. There were 113 new cases today an stringent social distancing measures are being brought back. Just because you feel people are being hysterical, or that your area has few cases so you needn't bother taking preventative measures, doesn't really matter all that much. If people become complacent or feel it's not up to them to bother taking precautions, cases will eventually rise again.

Yep, cases will rise and fall as the country reopens and travel resumes. This was ALWAYS going to be the case. R numbers and a running total of increasing infections (which doesn't tell us how many have since recovered by the way) is just the media obsessing over the changing figures every day and not helping anyone. It's just sowing fear.

Every death is a tragedy for those involved/around them, but really it's been extremely low in this country (insert "That's cause of the restrictions" argument here - leaving aside the numbers continue to be extremely low several weeks after the widest reopening yet) and many of those deaths were among those with serious underlying conditions.

The biggest fallout of this is the effect it's had on people's mental well-being. I said it months ago on the other threads and it's worse today. Constant coverage, opinion and analysis had led some to (understandably) think that they can barely go out their front door at this point. Then there's the aggressive posturing and lashing out against those not of a similar mindset.

I won't even get into the effects on business, jobs, education etc, or the damage it'll do to particularly kids the longer it continues. They may be low risk to "de virus" but the emotional consequences of all this could be with them for years or a lifetime.

Sconsey

No: other

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Yep, cases will rise and fall as the country reopens and travel resumes. This was ALWAYS going to be the case. R numbers and a running total of increasing infections (which doesn't tell us how many have since recovered by the way) is just the media obsessing over the changing figures every day and not helping anyone. It's just sowing fear.

Every death is a tragedy for those involved/around them, but really it's been extremely low in this country (insert "That's cause of the restrictions" argument here - leaving aside the numbers continue to be extremely low several weeks after the widest reopening yet) and many of those deaths were among those with serious underlying conditions.

The biggest fallout of this is the effect it's had on people's mental well-being. I said it months ago on the other threads and it's worse today. Constant coverage, opinion and analysis had led some to (understandably) think that they can barely go out their front door at this point. Then there's the aggressive posturing and lashing out against those not of a similar mindset.

I won't even get into the effects on business, jobs, education etc, or the damage it'll do to particularly kids the longer it continues. They may be low risk to "de virus" but the emotional consequences of all this could be with them for years or a lifetime.

All fine points, but how will wearing a mask in a shop make things worse? One mans fear is another mans public awareness. We know from umpteen sources that wearing one will reduce the risk, what benefits will not wearing one bring?

dwayneshintzy

Yes: to protect myself and others

Extremely low compared to where? Ireland has had 1,753 deaths in a population of just under 5m. Hong Kong has had 14 deaths in a population of 7.5m, Vietnam with 0 deaths and a population of 95m, Taiwan 7 deaths with a population of 24m, South Korea 297 deaths with 51m people, etc.

If you think masks are a nonsense, why have those countries had such better results (compared to Ireland) with less stringent lockdowns?

Polar101

Staff in my local Dunnes are now wearing masks, previously some of the did and most didn't.

The only difference to my shopping experience is that I found it hard to have a conversation with the checkout staff, when she couldn't quite hear what I was saying and vice versa.

_Kaiser_

Well just back from the local shop myself and I'd say not even 50% of customers were wearing them in the time I was there.

is_that_so

No: other

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Extremely low compared to where? Ireland has had 1,753 deaths in a population of just under 5m. Hong Kong has had 14 deaths in a population of 7.5m, Vietnam with 0 deaths and a population of 95m, Taiwan 7 deaths with a population of 24m, South Korea 297 deaths with 51m people, etc.

If you think masks are a nonsense, why have those countries had such better results (compared to Ireland) with less stringent lockdowns?

Very rapid response with aggressive testing and contact tracing is one big reason, and they severely restricted travel into the country. They also all had experience with SARS.