Ireland's Hospitals owned by the Rich

LuasSimon

Seems a bit much that owners of Hospitals in this country like Larry Goodman doesn't pay his taxs in Ireland but pays less than one per cent in Luxembourg, its easy for him own half of Louth and buy up all the hospitals in this country. Denis O Brien a similar case getting taxed in Malta.

These people have Billions and wont pay their fair share , meanwhile tax the b*llocks off middle of the road PAYE workers because Larry Goodman or Denis O Brien dont want to give any money to the country?/

Harry Palmr

The private health care sector is in for a rude "awokening" when this is over, people will certainly wonder why the posh bit of the two tier system has been allowed to cream off the state for so long.

bpmurray

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

massive state subsidies to private hospitals :rolleyes:

Actually, that wasn't Fine Gael.

Wanderer78

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The private health care sector is in for a rude "awokening" when this is over, people will certainly wonder why the posh bit of the two tier system has been allowed to cream off the state for so long.

id like to think you re right, but we have a tendency to just go back to normal sometimes

bpmurray

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The private health care sector is in for a rude "awokening" when this is over, people will certainly wonder why the posh bit of the two tier system has been allowed to cream off the state for so long.

They don't cream off the state. They provide exceptional services to the state when the state can't provide the service itself. Like any other commercial enterprise they charge the state for this, unsurprisingly. However, private hospitals' bread & butter is the privately insured or, more accurately, their insurance companies.

In fact, insurance companies keep both the private and public health systems afloat: they subsidise their members who use the public system, paying substantial amounts to the public hospitals, as well as subsidising visits to private institutions.

LuasSimon

bpmurray wrote: »

They don't cream off the state. They provide exceptional services to the state when the state can't provide the service itself. Like any other commercial enterprise they charge the state for this, unsurprisingly. However, private hospitals' bread & butter is the privately insured or, more accurately, their insurance companies.

In fact, insurance companies keep both the private and public health systems afloat: they subsidise their members who use the public system, paying substantial amounts to the public hospitals, as well as subsidising visits to private institutions.

It seems a bit made the State is reliant on Oligarch rich people like Larry Goodman to provide hospitals, he then gets a huge amount of money from the state for this coronavirus emergency helpout with beds .....and he wont pay any tax in this country....its like McMafia or something in Russia.

bpmurray

suicide_circus wrote: »

i dont think anyone would object to paying additional income tax if it meant we could stop paying for vhi etc...the trouble is, do we trust official Ireland not to make a complete bollix of it?

Wanderer78 wrote: »

can we trust private health insurance not to extract wealth from our health system, thus reducing the quality of service we get, in order to maximize their profits?

I don't see how eliminating private health insurance means they get to extract wealth from the health system.

Yellow_Fern

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The private health care sector is in for a rude "awokening" when this is over, people will certainly wonder why the posh bit of the two tier system has been allowed to cream off the state for so long.

I think you'd struggle to prove this.

bpmurray

LuasSimon wrote: »

It seems a bit made the State is reliant on Oligarch rich people like Larry Goodman to provide hospitals, he then gets a huge amount of money from the state for this coronavirus emergency helpout with beds .....and he wont pay any tax in this country....its like McMafia or something in Russia.

I doubt the amount is actually "huge" - probably reasonable commercial terms. I imagine most people would prefer if he handed over the hospitals for free, but that would be anathema to any capitalist and I'm pretty sure Larry is one of those (as is Leo).

hatrickpatrick

Private hospitals should be nationalised and future ones outlawed. It's as simple as that. Nobody should own hospitals other than the state and they should serve no purpose other than serving the public as best they can.

Yellow_Fern

LuasSimon wrote: »

It seems a bit made the State is reliant on Oligarch rich people like Larry Goodman to provide hospitals, he then gets a huge amount of money from the state for this coronavirus emergency helpout with beds .....and he wont pay any tax in this country....its like McMafia or something in Russia.

I have no idea what tax he pays but as a rule if you are worth billions it is hardly shocking that you can afford accountants that are smarter then those who work for the state. BTW we also reliant on Oligarchs who make masks, who run freight companies, develop drugs, supply energy and many other things. Its the same as anything else. The only difference providing healthcare over the course of an entire life is vastly tricky than nearly any other area.

1641

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Private hospitals should be nationalised and future ones outlawed. It's as simple as that. Nobody should own hospitals other than the state and they should serve no purpose other than serving the public as best they can.

Why on earth not? If people want to pay for a service privately what is the problem?


Having said that, I would be delighted if we had a public health system that offered an easily accessible and comprehensive service. I would be happy to pay a bit more tax/prsi for this- and I could abandon private health insurance. But would everyone?

Compare us to Sweden. The top 20% of earners have an average state deduction of 33% of income here while in Sweden it is 37%. An extra 4% deduction for a comprehensive and accessible health service (plus childcare and other public services) sounds like good value.

But the bottom 20% of earners contribute an average of 12% here while in Sweden they have 37% deducted. How would an increase like that go here? Does whatever version you like of the People's Popular Front for the Liberation of the Nation propose to have similar taxation and social insurance rates here? If so they have kept very quiet about it.

Ludikrus

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Private hospitals should be nationalised and future ones outlawed. It's as simple as that. Nobody should own hospitals other than the state and they should serve no purpose other than serving the public as best they can.

Great idea comrade!

Savage93

LuasSimon wrote: »

I thought the state owned them but only for Private Heathcare members. OK i was wrong , now i realize that Larry Goodman and Denis O Brien own them and unless you have enough money to purchase private healthcare your not allowed in.

Not true, if you have no private health insurance you are welcome in private hospitals, as long as you pay for your treatment in advance, so there

Mrs OBumble

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Private hospitals should be nationalised and future ones outlawed. It's as simple as that. Nobody should own hospitals other than the state and they should serve no purpose other than serving the public as best they can.

Food is even more essential than healthcare. Do you want to nationalise all the supermarkets too?

purifol0

I'm fairly shocked that the OP wants to take a shot at the private hospitals! The HSE & all the health care unions including the beloved nurses have destroyed the public system and all but bankrupted the country. Its a massive money pit and the vast majority of that cash goes nowhere near the patients.

Sir Guy who smiles

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

The M50 is a 'private' road. It was funded by business so there is a toll. Works fine.

This is factually incorrect. The M50 is a public road owned by the state.

You pay a toll because the company has a contract to maintain the road.

https://www.m50concession.com/about-us/

Yellow_Fern

Sir Guy who smiles wrote: »

This is factually incorrect. The M50 is a public road owned by the state.

You pay a toll because the company has a contract to maintain the road.

https://www.m50concession.com/about-us/

Yes, hence I put the quotation marks because its not legally private but its a good example of important the private sector is for funding even the most basic of infrastructure.

NSAman

OP just count your lucky stars that you actually have access to healthcare (bad and all as that maybe)

I pay $1200 a moth for healthcare insurance for myself and each one of my staff (they range between $550 for the youngest to almost $2000 for the eldest).

On top of that I have to also pay up to $250 a year + doctors visits + ancillary costs.

Some people here (even with insurance) have deductibles of $5000 to $10000 a year.

There is nothing stopping people from investing in Private Hospitals. People make money and invest it to make more money, its called taking a chance in life. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. That is called Capitalism and makes the world go around.

sheesh

LuasSimon wrote: »

I thought the state owned them but only for Private Heathcare members. OK i was wrong , now i realize that Larry Goodman and Denis O Brien own them and unless you have enough money to purchase private healthcare your not allowed in.

are you a brand new person?

you are taking the piss!

sheesh

Sir Guy who smiles wrote: »

This is factually incorrect. The M50 is a public road owned by the state.

You pay a toll because the company has a contract to maintain the road.

https://www.m50concession.com/about-us/

they used to. the toll was supposed to stop a couple of years ago but council decided to keep the toll on 'as a revenue stream'

Yellow_Fern

sheesh wrote: »

are you a brand new person?

you are taking the piss!

Yeah unusual thoughts to say the least. The state does have investments in businesses but private hospitals would be a strange one and quite unethical if the state had a interventionist management role in them.

tdf7187

Tea Shock wrote: »

What has it got to do with the FG Government?

the right wing fg are in bed with them. thats why. zanu ff the same. two cheeks, same ass.

tdf7187

the op is essentially correct. we live in an extremely unequal and corrupt banana republic with shiny doors.

SEPT 23 1989

Sir Guy who smiles wrote: »

This is factually incorrect. The M50 is a public road owned by the state.

You pay a toll because the company has a contract to maintain the road.

https://www.m50concession.com/about-us/

Were the original owners not connected to the FF crime crew?

jobeenfitz

Tea Shock wrote: »

What has it got to do with the FG Government?

There is definitely connections with FG party and Denis O'Brien. A tribunal found him guilty of paying a FG minister (Lowry) for mobile phone licence.

He was standing beside FG leader and Taoiseach (Enda) when he had the honour of ringing the bell at New York stock exchange.

Im sure if your willing to dig you could find more connections.

Wanderer78

NSAman wrote: »

There is nothing stopping people from investing in Private Hospitals. People make money and invest it to make more money, its called taking a chance in life. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. That is called Capitalism and makes the world go around.

capitalism has been around for centuries, what we are currently experiencing is potentially one of the most dangerous forms of it, i.e. neoliberalism. this form is hell bent on simply extracting as much wealth from our societies, in whatever ways it can, and in return leaves us with not enough to run our most critical services such as health care systems. what you call 'taking a chance in life', is investors taking a punt on an investment, whereby their needs of profiteering may in fact mean a substandard health care system is created for some, i.e. maximizing share holder value trumps trying to provide adequate health care for some, which in turn may cause long term damage or possibly deaths to those that simply cannot afford adequate health care cover such as private health care insurance. this form of capitalism has the potential to end life on this planet if we continue in this vain, theres plenty of evidence to support wealth is accumulating at a rapid rate, in fewer hands, this is in fact dangerous for all, including the wealthy. theres nothing stopping us from creating a form of capitalism thats not as parasitic as this one

jobeenfitz

purifol0 wrote: »

I'm fairly shocked that the OP wants to take a shot at the private hospitals! The HSE & all the health care unions including the beloved nurses have destroyed the public system and all but bankrupted the country. Its a massive money pit and the vast majority of that cash goes nowhere near the patients.

Or he's taking a shot at the billionaire owners who avoid paying their fair share of tax here.

Maybe we could have better public services, including health care if they did?

jobeenfitz

Maybe this is for a different thread but there is a connection.

Some children are waiting years for a scoliosis operation, their backs end up deformed more because of the wait than the disease itself.

Not to mention the pain and hardship to the child. The stress and worry to the parents or in some case parent.

Anybody who has seen the documentary's will understand.

It costs more to try to fix the damage later because of the years of wait.

Then we have people who own billions, tens of billions, who employ accountants to avoid paying tax, paying a fraction in a tax shelter.

Big companies not paying their fair share of taxes, employing accountants to find tax shelters.

These same billionaires paying close to minimum wage in a lot of cases.

Its all tied in. The system is broken. Too many billionaires with enough money to own hundreds of hospital and billions of people around the world struggling for adequate health care.

Then we have the "I'm fine Jack, choir boys" defending the super rich, and the system.

Its a sad world.

Wanderer78

jobeenfitz wrote: »

Maybe this is for a different thread but there is a connection.

Some children are waiting years for a scoliosis operation, their backs end up deformed more because of the wait than the disease itself.

Not to mention the pain and hardship to the child. The stress and worry to the parents or in some case parent.

Anybody who has seen the documentary's will understand.

It costs more to try to fix the damage later because of the years of wait.

Then we have people who own billions, tens of billions, who employ accountants to avoid paying tax, paying a fraction in a tax shelter.

Big companies not paying their fair share of taxes, employing accountants to find tax shelters.

These same billionaires paying close to minimum wage in a lot of cases.

Its all tied in. The system is broken. Too many billionaires with enough money to own hundreds of hospital and billions of people around the world struggling for adequate health care.

Then we have the "I'm fine Jack, choir boys" defending the super rich, and the system.

Its a sad world.

its more than a sad world, its a really fcuked up world, if wealth accumulation far exceeds providing adequate health care for all