Government Benefits Megathread

Kiith · 25-01-2021 10:51am

Dempo1 wrote: »

Unfortunately arrears are dealt with seperatly, she will be entitled to PUP from last date of employment. There's been a long term issues with arrears so if any are applicable she will get them at some stage. To date I believe arrears have only been dealt with once, early December. I don't think it will take as long second time around.

Keep in mind also, PUP paid a week in arrears

Cheers for that. Thankfully we're not stuck or anything, just budgeting for the coming weeks/months.

Dempo1 · 25-01-2021 10:54am

Kiith wrote: »

Cheers for that. Thankfully we're not stuck or anything, just budgeting for the coming weeks/months.

O I hear you. There's likely to be an announcement on arrears in the future, if they address it like last time so kerp an eye, she can also request a statement of arrears but maybe hold off for a while on that so portal can be updated, good luck

Galway20188 · 25-01-2021 11:51pm

Hi guys anyone heard anything about PUP extended beyond March? I just don’t see the economy opening up. I know currently the plan is for anyone still unemployed by them to be on jobseekers but I’m a student so I wouldn’t be entitled to that even tho I have worked full time throughout college

26-01-2021 3:37am

Has anyone here (self employed) come off PUP and onto the part-time €128 payment instead?

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_and_work/part_time_job_incentive_scheme_for_self_employed.html

I'm considering it, but not sure if im being a bit optimistic. and if things don't pan out it doesnt appear to be easy to revert back to PUP..

Dempo1 · 26-01-2021 8:25am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Has anyone here (self employed) come off PUP and onto the part-time €128 payment instead?

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_and_work/part_time_job_incentive_scheme_for_self_employed.html

I'm considering it, but not sure if im being a bit optimistic. and if things don't pan out it doesnt appear to be easy to revert back to PUP..

Bizzare scheme to be honest, if I've read correctly you can not work more than 24 hours per week and yet there's no limit to how much you can earn over 8 weeks. €128 per week is also a big drop if your on the higher or next higher rate of PUP. Whilst pup likely to end sooner rather than later, even the basic JSA is more albeit no work permitted in that scenario.

There's a thread for self employed only on PUP, I'd seek advice there but certainly I've not even heard this scheme mentioned, I'd also suspect once on it, moving back to PUP could be very tricky.

Dempo1 · 26-01-2021 8:36am

Galway20188 wrote: »

Hi guys anyone heard anything about PUP extended beyond March? I just don’t see the economy opening up. I know currently the plan is for anyone still unemployed by them to be on jobseekers but I’m a student so I wouldn’t be entitled to that even tho I have worked full time throughout college

It's tricky especially for students, I've previously predicted Government will avoid any mention of PUP extensions, quietly hoping they can end it with little fuss. Your completely correct re economy and not even government could have predicted how bad the past four weeks would be.

The only commitment to date from government is PUP will continue under level 5 with no reduction on rates, that leaves the door open if restrictions drop a level.

One glimmer of hope is that redundancy legislation is currently suspended while PUP exists, this stops 10"s of thousands of people claiming and receiving redundancy payments, this is a substantial cost to the state if as is predicted employers can't meet these payments. If PUP ends, Redundancy entitlements will kick in almost immediately and it won't be pretty.

My gut feeling will be PUP will be extended for a very defined short period and Rates will drop, I know not a popular opinion but unless opposition political parties are at one in opposing any dropping of PUP, Government will stop it as soon as they can.

I would hope some scheme will be considered for students who would normally not qualify for JSA

26-01-2021 4:54pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

There's a thread for self employed only on PUP

You wouldn't have a link to that by any chance? I can't seem to find it.

Fair play, by the way, Dempo. Every second response to this thread is you, giving advice and guiding people. I hope you work for Social Welfare with the hours you're putting in! :P

Dempo1 · 26-01-2021 5:05pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You wouldn't have a link to that by any chance? I can't seem to find it.

Fair play, by the way, Dempo. Every second response to this thread is you, giving advice and guiding people. I hope you work for Social Welfare with the hours you're putting in! :P

O Dear God, if only I did work for SW

Try this link, to be honest slow on replies but you might get someone who's looked at the scheme you referred too, good luck but caution advised with such uncertainty out there.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058095960/1/#post114026350

GreenGrass2019 · 26-01-2021 5:06pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

It's tricky especially for students, I've previously predicted Government will avoid any mention of PUP extensions, quietly hoping they can end it with little fuss. Your completely correct re economy and not even government could have predicted how bad the past four weeks would be.

The only commitment to date from government is PUP will continue under level 5 with no reduction on rates, that leaves the door open if restrictions drop a level.

One glimmer of hope is that redundancy legislation is currently suspended while PUP exists, this stops 10"s of thousands of people claiming and receiving redundancy payments, this is a substantial cost to the state if as is predicted employers can't meet these payments. If PUP ends, Redundancy entitlements will kick in almost immediately and it won't be pretty.

My gut feeling will be PUP will be extended for a very defined short period and Rates will drop, I know not a popular opinion but unless opposition political parties are at one in opposing any dropping of PUP, Government will stop it as soon as they can.

I would hope some scheme will be considered for students who would normally not qualify for JSA

I'd agree, PUP is not going to last forever, however for as long as the TWSS is in place for employers due to Government lockdowns, the PUP will be in place, they have budgeted that they can pay for PUP until the end of 2021. So I would think looking at the way things are now I can see an extension until the middle the year as Leo and co. keep alluding to the summer before any type of real release of restrictions is going to happen ... It most certainly won't be a fast easing of restrictions. Leo confirmed that last night on the Claire Byrne Show, they're not going to make the same mistake again.
However with these new and ever more variants of the virus right now no one can be certain what the coming months are going to bring!

Dempo1 · 26-01-2021 5:12pm

GreenGrass2019 wrote: »

I'd agree, PUP is not going to last forever, however for as long as the TWSS is in place for employers due to Government lockdowns, the PUP will be in place, they have budgeted that they can pay for PUP until the end of 2021. So I would think looking at the way things are now I can see an extension until the middle the year as Leo and co. keep alluding to the summer before any type of real release of restrictions is going to happen ... It most certainly won't be a fast easing of restrictions. Leo confirmed that last night on the Claire Byrne Show, they're not going to make the same mistake again.
However with these new and ever more variants of the virus right now no one can be certain what the coming months are going to bring!

All fair points and could be true but I would not compare TWSS & PUP, Two very very different schemes. Unfortunately you'll know there's a cohort out there that demonise PUP, which I've found offensive and I'm very quick to defend PUP. Hopefully it will be extended, just hard to predict with all the variables, one I hadn't considered was Vaccine Roll out success and that too could play a part in any decisions made.

GreenGrass2019 · 26-01-2021 6:35pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

All fair points and could be true but I would not compare TWSS & PUP, Two very very different schemes. Unfortunately you'll know there's a cohort out there that demonise PUP, which I've found offensive and I'm very quick to defend PUP. Hopefully it will be extended, just hard to predict with all the variables, one I hadn't considered was Vaccine Roll out success and that too could play a part in any decisions made.

Absolutely 100% demonising the PUP is a fruitless pursuit, people are on it because in the majority of cases they have no other choice ... and would much prefer to be working and continuing with their lives, there will always be those that feel hard done by and cannot see it from another's perspective.

The Government is going to want to avoid (for as long as possible even if they're falsely holding up the economy at this stage) to have sky rocketing unemployment figures due to a discontinuation of the PUP and people being forced onto JB / JSA ... along with the fact everyone would be moved to a flat rate of €203 p/w and forcing them into unemployment.
As long as the virus has a strong hold as it does and the Government strategy is lockdowns their hands are pretty much tied when it comes to extending the support schemes.
In the long run it is in the Governments interest to keep people in employment ...
The virus is going no where fast so it all depends really on whether the Government are going to take the approach they have done so until now or move to a zero Covid strategy ... the vaccine rollout even when complete may not eradicate the virus.

26-01-2021 7:30pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

O Dear God, if only I did work for SW

Try this link, to be honest slow on replies but you might get someone who's looked at the scheme you referred too, good luck but caution advised with such uncertainty out there.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058095960/1/#post114026350

Thank you for your help, Dempo. I appreciate it.

TheMilkyPirate · 01-02-2021 1:31pm

I closed my PUP payment last Monday as back to work. I see the payment period is Friday to Thursday, does this mean I will receive the payment tomorrow?

Dempo1 · 01-02-2021 1:34pm

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

I closed my PUP payment last Monday as back to work. I see the payment period is Friday to Thursday, does this mean I will receive the payment tomorrow?

Yes, payment is made a week in arrears, Good luck

Idbatterim · 01-02-2021 8:44pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

It's tricky especially for students, I've previously predicted Government will avoid any mention of PUP extensions, quietly hoping they can end it with little fuss. Your completely correct re economy and not even government could have predicted how bad the past four weeks would be.

The only commitment to date from government is PUP will continue under level 5 with no reduction on rates, that leaves the door open if restrictions drop a level.

One glimmer of hope is that redundancy legislation is currently suspended while PUP exists, this stops 10"s of thousands of people claiming and receiving redundancy payments, this is a substantial cost to the state if as is predicted employers can't meet these payments. If PUP ends, Redundancy entitlements will kick in almost immediately and it won't be pretty.

My gut feeling will be PUP will be extended for a very defined short period and Rates will drop, I know not a popular opinion but unless opposition political parties are at one in opposing any dropping of PUP, Government will stop it as soon as they can.

I would hope some scheme will be considered for students who would normally not qualify for JSA

funny given my mate just got a stautory redundancy... employer couldnt pay it, so government did. This was several weeks ago...

Idbatterim · 01-02-2021 8:44pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

It's tricky especially for students, I've previously predicted Government will avoid any mention of PUP extensions, quietly hoping they can end it with little fuss. Your completely correct re economy and not even government could have predicted how bad the past four weeks would be.

The only commitment to date from government is PUP will continue under level 5 with no reduction on rates, that leaves the door open if restrictions drop a level.

One glimmer of hope is that redundancy legislation is currently suspended while PUP exists, this stops 10"s of thousands of people claiming and receiving redundancy payments, this is a substantial cost to the state if as is predicted employers can't meet these payments. If PUP ends, Redundancy entitlements will kick in almost immediately and it won't be pretty.

My gut feeling will be PUP will be extended for a very defined short period and Rates will drop, I know not a popular opinion but unless opposition political parties are at one in opposing any dropping of PUP, Government will stop it as soon as they can.

I would hope some scheme will be considered for students who would normally not qualify for JSA

funny given my mate just got a stautory redundancy... employer couldnt pay it, so government did. This was several weeks ago...

Dempo1 · 01-02-2021 8:55pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

funny given my mate just got a stautory redundancy... employer couldnt pay it, so government did. This was several weeks ago...

Ah these mates

Whilst I would not consider redundancy funny at all, it is odd as legislation suspended till march 2021, meaning no one gets a redundancy claim processed, this said if a company can pay it, that's a different matter but SW certainly not paying put statutory redundancy payments at the moment.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/1124/1180203-redundancy/

GreenGrass2019 · 08-02-2021 11:27am

Article from 4th December 2020 - sharing for any of those wondering about whether PUP will be extended past the end of March.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/pup-payment-could-extended-summer-23113905

09-02-2021 1:57am

Myself and all my former workmates got redundancy recently enough. Company was in liquidation, so I assume that's what makes the difference.

09-02-2021 8:04am

Anyone else not get a pup payment last night / today?

Dempo1 · 09-02-2021 8:19am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Anyone else not get a pup payment last night / today?

No issues here + a small revenue refund

kennethsmyth · 09-02-2021 11:32am

Dempo1 wrote: »

Ah these mates

Whilst I would not consider redundancy funny at all, it is odd as legislation suspended till march 2021, meaning no one gets a redundancy claim processed, this said if a company can pay it, that's a different matter but SW certainly not paying put statutory redundancy payments at the moment.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/1124/1180203-redundancy/

I'm afraid thats incorrect, if a redundancy situation exists (you are let go permanently or the company disolves) then normal redundancy processes apply. The extension only takes away the employees right to force a redundancy situation after four weeks of no work or multiple weeks of less than full employment over 13 weeks.

There are employees in situations (want to leave or retire) that the employee legislation could help them. I'm not a fan that this has been extended multiple times as it just pushes the issue further down the road and additionally takes rights away from employees. It would be better the government supported any employers that have a viable future as these redundancies are coming regardless.

GreenGrass2019 · 10-02-2021 11:29am

FYI RE: Income Tax liability on PUP 2021

Irish Independent today

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/covid-payment-shock-pup-recipients-will-have-to-pay-income-tax-on-the-welfare-benefit-this-year-40073162.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=IN:Daily&hConversionEventId=AQEAAZQF2gAmdjQwMDAwMDE3Ny04YWVhLTRkM2YtYmNhMi1iZDE2M2VhYjRmOTPaACQyNWRkOWYxYy0wZGNiLTQ2ZWItMDAwMC0wMjFlZjNhMGJjYznaACQ2ZGFhNTcwNC00ZTEwLTQyNzUtYTRlMS02YTEwMTMxNDc3ZTCcPgVNePugkvQfteA01OWKu9ajIyrviyvtooREZSdzhA

opinionated3 · 10-02-2021 11:32am

GreenGrass2019 wrote: »

FYI RE: Income Tax liability on PUP 2021

Irish Independent today

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/covid-payment-shock-pup-recipients-will-have-to-pay-income-tax-on-the-welfare-benefit-this-year-40073162.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=IN:Daily&hConversionEventId=AQEAAZQF2gAmdjQwMDAwMDE3Ny04YWVhLTRkM2YtYmNhMi1iZDE2M2VhYjRmOTPaACQyNWRkOWYxYy0wZGNiLTQ2ZWItMDAwMC0wMjFlZjNhMGJjYznaACQ2ZGFhNTcwNC00ZTEwLTQyNzUtYTRlMS02YTEwMTMxNDc3ZTCcPgVNePugkvQfteA01OWKu9ajIyrviyvtooREZSdzhA

My own tax credits were reduced last week as my wife is on the PUP ( non essential retail). My understanding is that it exists to prevent a larger tax bill at the end of the year. Why we must pay tax on this while our employers get away with it is beyond me

kennethsmyth · 10-02-2021 11:57am

Dempo1 wrote: »

You are partly correct however as I've stated it is is not that straight forward. Redundancies are continuing for companies that can discharge the redundancy liabilities. The problems arising are with those companies either unable to meet the liability, refusing to meet it or dependant on Social insurance fund (Government /SW).

These are not being dealt with and still suspended. I can but won't name a number of companies seeking to formalise redundancies but require Government intervention for assistance in discharging redundancy liabilities, one I know personally, announced to staff 3 weeks ago that all their shops won't be reopening. Discussions with staff were due to start this week but only yesterday were advised by company the department has deffered discussions for at least a month and maybe longer. In essence staff left in limbo (there's about 400, Nationwide) some with over 35 years service.

So I'm not suggesting employees rights or entitlements being contravened but impacted from delays in processing redundancies requiring Government intervention due to current suspensions in place.

The argument suspension stops employees forcing a redundancy is mute. Its never been possible for any employee to force a redundancy situation, (obviously there are unfair/constructive dismissal cases) it's to do with an employee who's employer has closed, stop trading, left employees unemployed, unfairly dismissed, constructively dismissed etc, seeking their legitimate redundancy entitlement and saying, sorry we can't address this until further notice (legislation suspended)

I don’t recall that the legislation regarding statutory redundancy payments by government was completely suspended, only that the employee could not push for redundancy if on layoff for too long. Can you confirm that the statutory payment by government legislation is suspended or is it just the department taking a view that they are not processing at present? If so either way that’s a disgrace.

doublejobbing 2 · 10-02-2021 1:19pm

GreenGrass2019 wrote: »

FYI RE: Income Tax liability on PUP 2021

Irish Independent today

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/covid-payment-shock-pup-recipients-will-have-to-pay-income-tax-on-the-welfare-benefit-this-year-40073162.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=IN:Daily&hConversionEventId=AQEAAZQF2gAmdjQwMDAwMDE3Ny04YWVhLTRkM2YtYmNhMi1iZDE2M2VhYjRmOTPaACQyNWRkOWYxYy0wZGNiLTQ2ZWItMDAwMC0wMjFlZjNhMGJjYznaACQ2ZGFhNTcwNC00ZTEwLTQyNzUtYTRlMS02YTEwMTMxNDc3ZTCcPgVNePugkvQfteA01OWKu9ajIyrviyvtooREZSdzhA

The media had us all worried last year about some huge impending tax bill. My attitude was, if I was in a job at 10 quid an hour that paid 400 p/w I'd pay feck all tax, why should this be any different.

On EWSS for circa 10 weeks of 2020, total gross earnings for the year just shy of 50K, got a grand BACK in tax, no debts.

I'd take this new report with a large dollop of salt as well.

Jafin · 10-02-2021 1:23pm

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

The media had us all worried last year about some huge impending tax bill. My attitude was, if I was in a job at 10 quid an hour that paid 400 p/w I'd pay feck all tax, why should this be any different.

On EWSS for circa 10 weeks of 2020, total gross earnings for the year just shy of 50K, got a grand BACK in tax, no debts.

I'd take this new report with a large dollop of salt as well.

How in the world did you get €1,000 tax back if you were on EWSS for 10 weeks? I was on it for seven weeks and owe €500+

doublejobbing 2 · 10-02-2021 1:28pm

Jafin wrote: »

How in the world did you get €1,000 tax back if you were on EWSS for 10 weeks? I was on it for seven weeks and owe €500+

No idea how the system works :pac:

At one stage in May, my employer wasn't back up and running, so I did a two or three weeks work on and off with another crowd. I never came off emergency tax with these lads as I didn't want my permanent employer knowing what I was up to as I thought they might cut me off the EWSS if they knew I had another source of income (something the government failed to broadcast was that it's perfectly legal to claim EWSS and work a second job). So it may have been something to do with that but I really don't know.

I was actually furious the government didn't broadcast the fact doing this was legal, I'd have jumped straight into any old warehouse job at 10 quid an hour from the start if I had known.

Whatever about an amnesty for last year, the 2021 shutdown was 100% the government's fault this time around with not sealing the borders at Christmas. This should not be taxed.

Jafin · 10-02-2021 1:31pm

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

No idea how the system works :pac:

At one stage in May, my employer wasn't back up and running, so I did a two or three weeks work on and off with another crowd. I never came off emergency tax with these lads as I didn't want my permanent employer knowing what I was up to as I thought they might cut me off the EWSS if they knew I had another source of income (something the government failed to broadcast was that it's perfectly legal to claim EWSS and work a second job). So it may have been something to do with that but I really don't know.

I was actually furious the government didn't broadcast the fact doing this was legal, I'd have jumped straight into any old warehouse job at 10 quid an hour from the start if I had known.

Whatever about an amnesty for last year, the 2021 shutdown was 100% the government's fault this time around with not sealing the borders at Christmas. This should not be taxed.

Oh yeah it's probably the emergency tax so I'd say.

13-02-2021 7:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone else not get a pup payment last night / today?

So just a heads up to others considering doing what I did.

I opted to move off PUP onto a lower rate, but that allows me to get back to work for 3 days a week:

https://www.gov.ie/en/service/aa618-covid-19-part-time-job-incentive-for-the-self-employed/

PUP is paid a week in arrears, so I signed up for this, assuming that I'd still be a week in arrears (assuming monday is the 1st of the month, I said i'd be back to work on the 21st. So in theory, I should get a PUP payment on the week of the 21st, a week in arrears, meaning my first week on the new scheme would give me a PUP payment, and then after a week on my new scheme i'd start getting the reduced rate).

However, it appears that they have pushed my PUP away, and moved forward the date of my new scheme payment to 'real time'. So effectively, i lost a week of PUP, and I'm now no longer a week in arrears on the new payment (which is classed as a plain-out jobseekers payment by Social Welfare - they themselves don't seem to know what that scheme is that I signed up for, so i just got awarded a jobseekers payment less €75ish means to bring me to the €128 i'm due).

I make a decent hourly wage, so I'm hoping that I can get back to work a bit more now and use the 24 hours each week to my advantage to try and make a few euro without completely removing the safety net incase things go to the wall, but I just wanted to point out the skipping of the final PUP payment incase anyone else is doing the same.

(also, new payment is made on a Friday).

Government Benefits Megathread

Comments