Boy (8) dies after dog attack

DellyBelly

suicide_circus wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess there are far more restricted breeds in Clondalkin, Finglas and Ballyfermot than in Malahide, Sandymount and Dalkey.

This is something I notice as well. You seem to see a lot of council estate types/lowerclass people walking around with pitbulls. Nearly all the owners I see of pitbulls for some reason like ot wear North Face jackets with the hoods up and black tracksuits. Is it a status thing or so they believe they look hard?

suicide_circus

DellyBelly wrote: »

This is something I notice as well. You seem to see a lot of council estate types/lowerclass people walking around with pitbulls. Nearly all the owners I see of pitbulls for some reason like ot wear North Face jackets with the hoods up and black tracksuits. Is it a status thing or so they believe they look hard?

these dogs are a "hard man" accessory, simple as that really. I'm sure there are exceptions but i'd say the vast majority of people who get restricted breeds enjoy the fact that these dogs have a scary reputation.

Gerry T

Hoboo wrote: »

"Technically" youre contradicting yourself...you don't call it a breed but you deal with "breeders". Then don't call it a cockapoo. Call it a mongrel the same as your other mongrel. Which it is.

The rest just backs up my statement, it's a club which supports cross breeding, to invent a new breed to sell at extortionate prices to whoever wants the latest cute puppy, once they have the money. I have no doubt owners love and look after their dogs, but supporting such practices ****s in the face of the animal welfare struggle.

I'm not contradicting myself, the club works with breeders of cockapoos, obviously. Their the one's you say have no regard for animal welfare. Try keep up.

But you yourself then say a cockapoo is a new breed. Make up your mind, mongrel or new breed, your words.

Do reputable breeders or any breeder give their pups away ? your all over the place, you make no sense.

Still waiting on your proof that cockapoo owners don't care for animal welfare.

borderlinemeath

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

Every dog in the world was cross bred and then inbred at some stage to form today’s “breeds”.
What’s the problem.once the dogs are looked after what’s the issue?
Look at the bulldogs.surely the greatest contradiction of a breed ever.ai,sections.how natural is that?a genetic mess created by man.

Because dogs that are considered pure breeds, were bred for a purpose - gundogs for bird game, terriers to flush out vermin, shepherds to guard the flocks. Over the course of time, dogs do get recognised by Kennel clubs around the world, but not because they are back yard bred cross breeds who have no purpose, they are dogs that have evolved over time to assist their owners to hunt/find/flush/assist. Not because they look cute.

Cross breeds such as anything "poo" or "shon" are purely because they look cute. Their coats are a disaster - poodle and bichon fur is tightly wound curls that matt when mixed with the straight denser fur of labs/cockers/whatever the stupid portmanteau fashionable mix of the week is. Groomers find them really difficult to clip unless they are meticulously groomed every day trimmed every 6 weeks or so. Lots of them that have matted fur have serious attitude with groomers trying to sort out their coat disasters.

Heath and temperament are not considered when mixing these either. The reason that good responsible breeders health test is to ensure that diseases that are genetically passed on are not present in their breeding dogs. This isn't a once over at the vet, this is DNA testing, hip scores, PRA eye tests. They all cost money, and eat into puppy farm /back yard breeders profits. The vast majority of cockapoos are bred from golden cocker spaniels and toy or miniature poodles. Golden cockers can be nervous aggressive, resource guarding dogs. Not necessarily good with children. Toy poodles are the better dog from the mix but are rarely considered as a family dog.

I agree with you about bulldogs. And all the other brachycephalic breeds. If you look at file pictures of bulldogs 100 years ago, it's a different dog. The exaggerated features of underbite and wrinkles in current bulldog stock makes for a very unhealthy dog. That can happen when bred purely for aesthetic purposes and any working potential has been exhausted. Not that anybody needs a bull baiting dog, but FFS, any animal that has trouble with simply breathing, should not be bred. As it stands, the vast majority of bulldog bitches can't naturally whelp and need to have medical intervention in the form of C-section to give birth.

lawred2

ifElseThen wrote: »

I'll take that risk as long as there are asshats in this world who walk their dogs unnmuzzled in parks.

And off leashes despite laws and bylaws to the contrary

borderlinemeath

lawred2 wrote: »

And off leashes despite laws and bylaws to the contrary

Apart from indivual County Council bye laws - The law of the land states that a dog must be under effectual control. Nowhere does it mention leads/leashes. If you can demonstrate that your dog is under your control and has good recall, then you are not breaking the law.

That said, I only walk mine off leash where they have space to run and explore, such as my local beach. I live semi rurally so they don't have to walk on footpaths or in estates. They don't really give a hoot about other dogs and only want to sniff, dig and run. So they wouldn't exactly get a good quality walk if I brought them to the local estate. The problems are down to ineffective training on the behalf of some owners, and practically zero enforcement of irresponsible owners by Country Councils.

Ash.J.Williams

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

I never hear of children being killed by jack russels or golden retrievers though?

Then you need to read more , jack Russell’s are notoriously jealous in some circumstances

Doctors room ghost

lawred2 wrote: »

And off leashes despite laws and bylaws to the contrary

There’s laws in relation to carrying an offensive weapon aswell.old Rambo the drama queen might want to look them up.
I read some sh1te on the internet over the years but old Rambo is near the top of the list

ifElseThen

https://www.liveleak.com/browse?q=pitbull+attack&a=list&submit=Submit

Take your pick.

dunnerc

ifElseThen wrote: »

Had this recently in Corkagh park. My children rolling around the hill when out of nowhere a GSD comes up and is standing over the three year old, her body almost under the 4 legs. Child was terrified even though the dog just wanted to play. Owner comes up, "Ah she's grand, she wouldn't hurt anyone." I went through him, off lead , no muzzle. I have used the story of this boy to drive home to the kids not to stray too far from me in the park. I carry a pocket knife when going to the park solely to be able to cut a dog if it had a grip on one of my children.

Good luck with that plan , Do you really think a pocket knife would do the job if a pitbull had a hold of one of your children ? Try bring a cigarette lighter and newspaper !

lawred2

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

There’s laws in relation to carrying an offensive weapon aswell.old Rambo the drama queen might want to look them up.
I read some sh1te on the internet over the years but old Rambo is near the top of the list

What?

Deebles McBeebles

ifElseThen wrote: »

Had this recently in Corkagh park. My children rolling around the hill when out of nowhere a GSD comes up and is standing over the three year old, her body almost under the 4 legs. Child was terrified even though the dog just wanted to play. Owner comes up, "Ah she's grand, she wouldn't hurt anyone." I went through him, off lead , no muzzle. I have used the story of this boy to drive home to the kids not to stray too far from me in the park. I carry a pocket knife when going to the park solely to be able to cut a dog if it had a grip on one of my children.

Absolute psycho.

I carry a gun whenever I go to the beach in case a seagull attacks me.

Thankfully this thread has been moved to CA where I won't see the absolute nonsense being spewed by the "dog experts" as frequently. It reminds me why I don't bother with A&PI forum.

Shady Grady

ifElseThen wrote: »

I'll take that risk as long as there are asshats in this world who walk their dogs unnmuzzled in parks.

And who is gonna protect your kids when your doing a stint in the can? Knife crimes are a big no-no anymore. So I don't believe you have thought about how it will all play out, If, and God forbid,something like that happens.

And I do see a lot of young folk of a certain nature walking Akitas and Pits.All unmuzzled and some off leads. IMO they should have dog wardens patrolling neighborhoods like they have traffic wardens. Otherwise nothing will change.

Odhinn

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Absolute psycho.

I carry a gun whenever I go to the beach in case a seagull attacks me..

Only one gun? Sure ye'll be savaged. Upgrade your self

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRWNoJkDYZ8

thequarefellow

jaxxx wrote: »

Cratur meaning CRATER (mispelled OBVIOUSLY).


Jesus...

Surely 'creature' is the word you are looking for? Not very appropriate either way.

DrPhilG

For feck sake, so much made of that comment.

The wee critter/creature/crater/whatever is a common phrase in Ireland. And it's not meant in any way disrespectfully. It is a term of endearment.

Kinda like being called a quare fella?

ShatterAlan

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

These dogs can be vicious. Tough lesson for the parents.

In fairness almost any dog can be vicious if not properly trained or if mistreated. I'm no vet or animal expert but I would say that mental illness can affect a dog as much as a human so I'd say you can have docile breeds but once in a while that breed could have an absolutely unhinged specimen. These big dogs like Rottweilers can be so aggressive sometimes and because they are so big and strong they don't have the same fear of a human opponent as say a Jack Russell might...who could be just as vicious. They make great guard dogs but I don't see any other application for them. They aren't the kind of dog that's lovey-dovey and playful. Their purpose is basically a canine bouncer. Like pitbulls they seemed to be designed for combat, low centre of gravity, muscles like rocks, skull like a cannonball, jaws of steel. People who have these dogs have them not for company and companionship but for protection or for making a statement. Walking along with one of these animals is tantamount to saying "get the fcuk out of my way. I'm bad news."

ShatterAlan

sligeach wrote: »

Not in direct relation to this tragic incident(which is a bit different, 2 rottweiler guard dogs in a business yard attached to the home), but I don't get why some people want dangerous breeds of dogs. I see these people out all the time with no muzzles on the dog, some let them off the lead, and others who can barely control the dog. Do they think they're hard ********? That it's some sort of status symbol? I think the majority of these people are idiots.

Unfortunately yes, some morons have these dogs to broadcast their "badass-ness". They have no clue how to maintain a healthy diet for them let alone train and care for them. These kinds of dogs need rigid discipine from the time they are puppies. They need a diet that is healthy and doesn't exacerbate aggression. Dogs shouldn't be fed meat or scraps and slops everyday. They need proper dog food that keeps them healthy and nourished and focused. My friend in Las Vegas had a Rottweiler puppy and just couldn't control it. The thing was hyper, badly behaved, aggressive. The friend and another mate got online to some forums and told of their plight. Almost immediately they had advice and recommendations from responsible owners around the world. They had this dog broken and being a model citizen in 2 to 3 weeks. Can you imagine some scrote in Finglas doing this kind of research and due diligence to get their pet Rottweiler "Conor" or "Tyson" to behave?

the_syco

Sandor Clegane wrote: »

I'm not going to condemn the breed, but these are large powerful dogs capable of taking down an adult with ease never mind a child.

You train a dog to attack, it will attack. With a storage business on the premises, I wonder were the dogs pets, or were they trained to defend the property?

Also, did the child do anything to the dog to cause it to react? Some kids can be right little ****s to animals.

ShatterAlan

Ms2011 wrote: »

No, no breed is any more dangerous than the next. Restricted Breed Legislation has been proven to be ineffective. A dog is a dog first and breed second.

I can't say I would agree with this at all.
Certain breeds most definitely have traits that differ from other breeds. Why are bloodhounds used to track? Because they have the most evolved and advanced sense of smell. Corgis are notoriously possessive of their owner. My mother had one and it would sleep under her bed and would growl at me when I came in to kiss my mother good night even though the snarky bastard knew it was me and had known me for 10 years. The dog didn't dislike me. It was playful and loving to me when we were together but when he was having "me time" with my ma I could fcuk right off.


Alsations and Border Collies are just born intelligent. Poodles are air-heads.


Rottweillers and pitbulls are thugs. Period. Doberman Pincers are nazis.

borderlinemeath

ShatterAlan wrote: »

I can't say I would agree with this at all.
Certain breeds most definitely have traits that differ from other breeds. Why are bloodhounds used to track? Because they have the most evolved and advanced sense of smell. Corgis are notoriously possessive of their owner. My mother had one and it would sleep under her bed and would growl at me when I came in to kiss my mother good night even though the snarky bastard knew it was me and had known me for 10 years. The dog didn't dislike me. It was playful and loving to me when we were together but when he was having "me time" with my ma I could fcuk right off.


Alsations and Border Collies are just born intelligent. Poodles are air-heads.


Rottweillers and pitbulls are thugs. Period. Doberman Pincers are nazis.

Standard poodles routinely test as one of the most intelligent dog breeds. They usually are considered the 2nd most intelligent and trainable dog, after the border collie.

I've met border collies who were far more aggressive than any rotties I've known. The vast majority are farm dogs and a hell of a lot of bitches are left to whelp and raise their pups in isolation out in a barn, and that initial lack of human contact and socialisation in the first couple of months of life can cement a nervousness of humans. Then if they aren't good enough as a working dog they are dumped to the pound or rescue. When in a family setting border collies are well known for nipping at children as they herd them up to relieve their boredom. The flip side of being highly intelligent is a need to be physically and mentally stimulated and most of them don't get enough exercise.

Any rottweilers that I have handled have been family pets and want nothing more than affection. They are actually a herding dog, and were herding and droving for centuries before border collies. Popular culture and a portrayal in films and TV as a dangerous dog are what led to the breed becoming a "status" dog. Selective breeding for certain traits will of course enhance them. But it certainly does not mean that all rotties have been selectively bred for aggression. But if the media portrays them all as demons then they must be right, right?

snoopboggybog

the_syco wrote: »

You train a dog to attack, it will attack. With a storage business on the premises, I wonder were the dogs pets, or were they trained to defend the property?

Also, did the child do anything to the dog to cause it to react? Some kids can be right little ****s to animals.

That is a horrible statement to say that the child could be someway in fault.

Happy4all

the_syco wrote: »

You train a dog to attack, it will attack. With a storage business on the premises, I wonder were the dogs pets, or were they trained to defend the property?

Also, did the child do anything to the dog to cause it to react? Some kids can be right little ****s to animals.

Disgusting comment

DrPhilG

I don't think it's a disgusting comment as such, it's just not relevant.

Maybe the poor kid pulled the dogs tail (although I doubt it had one), maybe he poked it in the eye or kicked it.

Doesn't matter.

Regardless of whether the dogs attacked him because he annoyed or hurt them or whether it was entirely unprovoked - there should never have been a situation whereby 2 dogs (of any breed) could maul a little child.

Serious negligence took place here. Whether by training a dog to be vicious, and/or allowing a child to be around dogs unsupervised.

The parents need to be charged and hit hard. Some will say they have suffered enough, well sorry - no - they haven't. They caused the death of a child. They should face manslaughter charges.

Still waters

thequarefellow wrote: »

Surely 'creature' is the word you are looking for? Not very appropriate either way.

It was my post that was being referred to, by using the word cratur i was referring to the poor child that died, not the animal, its a word used as a term of endearment or comfort its a word used in my locality when referring to a young child and that's all i meant by it, just because some people don't understand something doesnt mean its something bad, again RIP to the poor child

JC01

ShatterAlan wrote: »

I can't say I would agree with this at all.
Certain breeds most definitely have traits that differ from other breeds. Why are bloodhounds used to track? Because they have the most evolved and advanced sense of smell. Corgis are notoriously possessive of their owner. My mother had one and it would sleep under her bed and would growl at me when I came in to kiss my mother good night even though the snarky bastard knew it was me and had known me for 10 years. The dog didn't dislike me. It was playful and loving to me when we were together but when he was having "me time" with my ma I could fcuk right off.


Alsations and Border Collies are just born intelligent. Poodles are air-heads.


Rottweillers and pitbulls are thugs. Period. Doberman Pincers are nazis.

That’s exactly the kind of rubbish people who know nothing about dogs routinely spout. Have you any dogs yourself?

Poodles are airheads is almost as ridiculous a comment as Rottweilers and pit bulls are thugs.

frillyleaf

mickdw wrote: »

Doggy people place far too much faith in their dogs.
For example leaving a t i ny new baby in a room with a large dog. Its completely nuts.
Even if the dog was to play with the child to the level it would with a similar sized dog, it would kill the child yet owners believe the dog understands the rights and wrongs of these things.
Crazy people.

Some people don’t understand it. A lot of people can’t read canine body language. Dogs don’t think like humans and some people assume they do

frillyleaf

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Unfortunately yes, some morons have these dogs to broadcast their "badass-ness". They have no clue how to maintain a healthy diet for them let alone train and care for them. These kinds of dogs need rigid discipine from the time they are puppies. They need a diet that is healthy and doesn't exacerbate aggression. Dogs shouldn't be fed meat or scraps and slops everyday. They need proper dog food that keeps them healthy and nourished and focused. My friend in Las Vegas had a Rottweiler puppy and just couldn't control it. The thing was hyper, badly behaved, aggressive. The friend and another mate got online to some forums and told of their plight. Almost immediately they had advice and recommendations from responsible owners around the world. They had this dog broken and being a model citizen in 2 to 3 weeks. Can you imagine some scrote in Finglas doing this kind of research and due diligence to get their pet Rottweiler "Conor" or "Tyson" to behave?

This idea of ‘breaking a dog’ does not sound good. A dog should be trained from an early age without being fearful of owner. It is good they trained their dog but hopefully they did it in a way that didn’t involve aversive methods

ShatterAlan

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Standard poodles routinely test as one of the most intelligent dog breeds. They usually are considered the 2nd most intelligent and trainable dog, after the border collie.

I've met border collies who were far more aggressive than any rotties I've known. The vast majority are farm dogs and a hell of a lot of bitches are left to whelp and raise their pups in isolation out in a barn, and that initial lack of human contact and socialisation in the first couple of months of life can cement a nervousness of humans. Then if they aren't good enough as a working dog they are dumped to the pound or rescue. When in a family setting border collies are well known for nipping at children as they herd them up to relieve their boredom. The flip side of being highly intelligent is a need to be physically and mentally stimulated and most of them don't get enough exercise.

Any rottweilers that I have handled have been family pets and want nothing more than affection. They are actually a herding dog, and were herding and droving for centuries before border collies. Popular culture and a portrayal in films and TV as a dangerous dog are what led to the breed becoming a "status" dog. Selective breeding for certain traits will of course enhance them. But it certainly does not mean that all rotties have been selectively bred for aggression. But if the media portrays them all as demons then they must be right, right?

I was taking the piss about poodles and dobermans

ShatterAlan

DrPhilG wrote: »

I don't think it's a disgusting comment as such, it's just not relevant.

Maybe the poor kid pulled the dogs tail (although I doubt it had one), maybe he poked it in the eye or kicked it.

Doesn't matter.

Regardless of whether the dogs attacked him because he annoyed or hurt them or whether it was entirely unprovoked - there should never have been a situation whereby 2 dogs (of any breed) could maul a little child.

Serious negligence took place here. Whether by training a dog to be vicious, and/or allowing a child to be around dogs unsupervised.

The parents need to be charged and hit hard. Some will say they have suffered enough, well sorry - no - they haven't. They caused the death of a child. They should face manslaughter charges.

If that was the case then every parent would be inside doing a stretch for criminal negligence.