Boy (8) dies after dog attack

RandomViewer

AllForIt wrote: »

The lower down the social scale you go the more vicious breeds of dogs they own.

I myself have a pooch.

Disagree, see lots of well to do people with Huskies and Alsations, poorer people more likely to have something easier Fed, Collie, terrier, crossbreed

CrankyHaus

RandomViewer wrote: »

Disagree, see lots of well to do people with Huskies and Alsations

Like this Aristocrat?



https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/shame-on-you-mum-had-starving-husky-in-flat-37569225.html

Gannicus

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Like this Aristocrat?



https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/shame-on-you-mum-had-starving-husky-in-flat-37569225.html

To be fair this one could have fed the dog better if she skipped a meal or two herself.

I think we all need to agree that most of these links posted with newspaper articles about dogs attacking people or "skangers" with certain breeds of dog will all be discounted as anecdotal and to be fair the media for the most part is all about sensationalism and what will get the most clicks and attention not what reflects the real world.

Whats going to persuade someone who is sensible to another point of view is pure unbiased stats.


EDIT: I know numerous people that are well to do with "Dangerous dogs" and have seen plenty of well.... not so upstanding members of society with these little "safe" and "nice" dogs.

For me it's really about people making an informed, educated and most of all responsible decision about the breed of dog they want and own. It's not the dogs fault if the owner is sh!tty

RandomViewer

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Like this Aristocrat?



https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/shame-on-you-mum-had-starving-husky-in-flat-37569225.html

Thinking more Mickey D and the two beasts

DrPhilG

shootermacg wrote: »

There really is no purpose for some of the breeds such as pitbulls etc.

Sterilize them all and lets be done with them.

Technically there is no purpose for ANY dog, aside from working dogs.

There is as much "purpose" for a labradoodle as there is for a Rottie.

So let's start sterilising all the poodles, shltzus, sausage dogs, chihuahuas etc too shall we?

Guns don't kill people, rappers, sorry I mean people do.

Cars don't kill people, wreck less drivers do.

Big dogs don't kill people, irresponsible owners do.

Gannicus

DrPhilG wrote: »

Guns don't kill people, rappers, sorry I mean people do.

Ask any politican and they'll tell you its true,

Blanco100

DrPhilG wrote: »

Technically there is no purpose for ANY dog, aside from working dogs.

There is as much "purpose" for a labradoodle as there is for a Rottie.

So let's start sterilising all the poodles, shltzus, sausage dogs, chihuahuas etc too shall we?

Guns don't kill people, rappers, sorry I mean people do.

Cars don't kill people, wreck less drivers do.

Big dogs don't kill people, irresponsible owners do.

Comparing a dog to a car?

As a dog lover, would you say a dog has a mind of its own, or personality as such?

If yes, you cannot draw a comparion with a car in fairness. Silly analogy.

average_runner

average_runner wrote: »

All dogs are vicious if brought up that way

Not at all, that’s nonsense. For a start if the likes of a Yorkshire Terrier is vicious it simply cannot inflict this amount of damage. As regards to all breeds having same propensity for bad temper, I just can’t imagine ever turning away in fear from a Basset Hound.

borderlinemeath

RIP to the poor boy. The parents will never, ever get over this.

For all those that are focusing on the dogs here that are covered by restricted breed legislation - for every breed that is on it, there's a bigger, tougher breed that isn't. The answer isn't banning these dogs, but controlling who breeds them, raises them, and ultimately makes them the type of dog they are.

People who specifically get a dog as a guard dog or security, do not get them from somebody that breeds family pets. These were dogs that weren't part of the family, they didn't protect the family, they protected the business. No matter what breed of dog was in that yard, it was purely to guard that territory. They didn't view that poor boy as part of it's family and rather than protect him, they attacked him. That part is down not only to how they were trained, but also how they were excluded from the family unit. A common theme with dog attacks and fatalities is that the person attacked wasn't part of the dogs immediate family, Be that a grandchild, a visiting relative or friend, or a trespasser in the garden - plenty of dogs get riled by people on their territory. A well raised dog of whatever breed, shouldn't attack somebody they view as part of their family. There's always exceptions for illnesses, dogs that are provoked, badly treated etc, but not on this scale.

borderlinemeath

Deleted User wrote: »

Not at all, that’s nonsense. For a start if the likes of a Yorkshire Terrier is vicious it simply cannot inflict this amount of damage. As regards to all breeds having same propensity for bad temper, I just can’t imagine ever turning away in fear from a Basset Hound.

Do you know many bassett hounds?? They are big dogs. Short, but very heavy set dogs. Every have one jump on you and dig their claws into you? One could very very easily overpower a child and do serious damage.

DrPhilG

I've owned a number of dogs over the years. Labradors, Golden Retrievers, Rottweilers and a Jack Russell.

Of them all, the JR is the one I'd see as most likely to nip.

The bigger of the Rotties (RIP) was the softest most gentle dog I've ever seen.

Here she is getting punched on the nose by a kitten.


But would I have left her, or any of them, alone with a child? Not a hope in hell. And anyone who does is a wreckless idiot.

People waffle on about banning certain breeds. As someone else already pointed out, ban all the current "dangerous" breeds and the assholes out there will just move down to the next biggest or toughest looking breed and start docking their tails, clipping their ears, beefing them up etc.

Tackle the real cause (bad owners) rather than trying to wipe out certain breeds based on ignorance.

kowloon

Horrible to hear that the child died, last I heard was critical condition. A neighbour of mine had his two dogs attach his child leaving wounds that required surgery. He shot both dogs himself. I love dogs myself but you have to be careful. Growing up, people didn't keep their dogs secured and there were several incidents.

borderlinemeath

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Do you know many bassett hounds?? They are big dogs. Short, but very heavy set dogs. Every have one jump on you and dig their claws into you? One could very very easily overpower a child and do serious damage.

Yes I do know them pretty well. They are extremely gentle by nature & intent. However you do not leave a very young child unsupervised in the company of a big animal for goodness sake. That’s just common sense.

DrPhilG

PS the only bite I ever received as a child was from a rough collie (Lassie).

#killthemall

Sorry I tell a lie, got a nip off a labrador too when I jumped into his garden to get my football.

Deebles McBeebles

Gardai going to examine the CCTV
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-to-examine-cctv-footage-of-fatal-dog-attack-that-claimed-life-of-boy-8-39070683.html

Seems one dog turned for whatever reason and the other followed.

Lantus

It's murder by proxy. Put them down..... And the dogs too....

Deebles McBeebles

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes I do know them pretty well. They are extremely gentle by nature & intent. However you do not leave a very young child unsupervised in the company of a big animal for goodness sake. That’s just common sense.

That should be any young child and any animal. Going by breed is ridiculous though. I've had many dogs come through my house and, anecdotal as it is, I've only been bitten by a lab and a small terrier cross.

borderlinemeath

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes I do know them pretty well. They are extremely gentle by nature & intent. However you do not leave a very young child unsupervised in the company of a big animal for goodness sake. That’s just common sense.

I wouldn't leave a child unsupervised with a yorkshire terrier either. This is from somebody with a 4yr old and 4 medium/large dogs. The dogs adore her, and she knows how to behave around them, but she's still a child, and more likely to accidentally upset them/jump on them/unintentionally hurt them so she's the one that needs supervision, not the dogs.

BTW, one of my dogs was charged at by a bassett
hound once. The owner had just gotten rid of their other basset hound because he was aggressive around their child. You can't pigeonhole breeds as being gentle/placid. Some of the dogs that I know that are aggressive are the typical family dogs that you would be lulled into a false sense of security by their appearance. In fact, I'd say the next "breed" that will appear in large numbers in pounds and rescues are cockapoos. A lot that I have met are nervously aggressive and shouldn't be in family units. That is mostly down to bad breeding, lots of cocker spaniels have guarding issues and nervous aggression is easily passed on from bitch to pups. But they're cute and fluffy, and nothing like stock file pictures of snarling aggressive dogs that media have us believe are the cause of all dog bites.

Gerry T

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I wouldn't leave a child unsupervised with a yorkshire terrier either. This is from somebody with a 4yr old and 4 medium/large dogs. The dogs adore her, and she knows how to behave around them, but she's still a child, and more likely to accidentally upset them/jump on them/unintentionally hurt them so she's the one that needs supervision, not the dogs.

BTW, one of my dogs was charged at by a bassett
hound once. The owner had just gotten rid of their other basset hound because he was aggressive around their child. You can't pigeonhole breeds as being gentle/placid. Some of the dogs that I know that are aggressive are the typical family dogs that you would be lulled into a false sense of security by their appearance. In fact, I'd say the next "breed" that will appear in large numbers in pounds and rescues are cockapoos. A lot that I have met are nervously aggressive and shouldn't be in family units. That is mostly down to bad breeding, lots of cocker spaniels have guarding issues and nervous aggression is easily passed on from bitch to pups. But they're cute and fluffy, and nothing like stock file pictures of snarling aggressive dogs that media have us believe are the cause of all dog bites.

Oh those cockapoo's are so aggressive :rolleyes:

tuxy

Lantus wrote: »

It's murder by proxy. Put them down..... And the dogs too....

No it's manslaughter by neglect. Murder would mean there was intent.

borderlinemeath

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I wouldn't leave a child unsupervised with a yorkshire terrier either. This is from somebody with a 4yr old and 4 medium/large dogs. The dogs adore her, and she knows how to behave around them, but she's still a child, and more likely to accidentally upset them/jump on them/unintentionally hurt them so she's the one that needs supervision, not the dogs.

BTW, one of my dogs was charged at by a bassett
hound once. The owner had just gotten rid of their other basset hound because he was aggressive around their child. You can't pigeonhole breeds as being gentle/placid. Some of the dogs that I know that are aggressive are the typical family dogs that you would be lulled into a false sense of security by their appearance. In fact, I'd say the next "breed" that will appear in large numbers in pounds and rescues are cockapoos. A lot that I have met are nervously aggressive and shouldn't be in family units. That is mostly down to bad breeding, lots of cocker spaniels have guarding issues and nervous aggression is easily passed on from bitch to pups. But they're cute and fluffy, and nothing like stock file pictures of snarling aggressive dogs that media have us believe are the cause of all dog bites.

I just knew one kennel of Basset Hounds and several owners, they happened to be very passive dogs with people, but divils when it comes to following a scent at all costs. I knew of one decades ago who was lost in Kerry, and returned to his Wicklow home a year later following scent and picking up meals along the way by charming people with his wagging tail and setting off quickly on his way when would-be rescuers would attempt to retain him.

borderlinemeath

Gerry T wrote: »

Oh those cockapoo's are so aggressive :rolleyes:

Yes. They are. If you knew much about cocker spaniels, particularly golden cockers, how badly bred some of them are, how prone to resource guarding and nervous aggression they are and even aggression that some people have called "cocker rage" (sudden onset aggression)

I work with dogs every day. Have met plenty that are too quick to bare their teeth at humans. Either around food, or other guarding issues, like being told to get off the couch. 2 of them have serious issues with groomers. (one has been banned from at least 3 local groomers)

I’ve handled quite a few dogs of all kinds at Kennel Club dog shows in my time, and in a rescue centre, and quite honestly the only time I was ever bitten by a dog was at the vets, by a Briard as happened. He appeared to invite petting, but didn’t actually want it. At Kennel Club Shows, all dogs have their teeth examined by a judge who lifts their lips. Any aggression automatically disqualifies a dog. At least IKC registered dogs bred from show stock and regularly shown will tend to be pretty good to handle by strangers. Simply put, aggression disqualifies.

borderlinemeath

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Yes. They are. If you knew much about cocker spaniels, particularly golden cockers, how badly bred some of them are, how prone to resource guarding and nervous aggression they are and even aggression that some people have called "cocker rage" (sudden onset aggression)

I work with dogs every day. Have met plenty that are too quick to bare their teeth at humans. Either around food, or other guarding issues, like being told to get off the couch. 2 of them have serious issues with groomers. (one has been banned from at least 3 local groomers)

That is true about certain (in particular Holden) cockers. As a kid I knew of an absolutely lovely golden cocker spaniel I used to walk from my neighbours, he was so easy-going and friendly with other people that he ended up being stolen from his owners’ garden and was so sadly missed by all the neighbours after that. I also came across very snippy golden cockers.

There is is separate issue with certain spaniels and some other dogs that has nothing to do with voluntary aggression, but is a rare form of epilepsy in the form of rage syndrome, which is a medical rather than a behaviour syndrome. Sadly most of these must be put to sleep as the rage is totally unpredictable and cannot be controlled by the dog’s own volition or training.

Gerry T

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Yes. They are. If you knew much about cocker spaniels, particularly golden cockers, how badly bred some of them are, how prone to resource guarding and nervous aggression they are and even aggression that some people have called "cocker rage" (sudden onset aggression)

I work with dogs every day. Have met plenty that are too quick to bare their teeth at humans. Either around food, or other guarding issues, like being told to get off the couch. 2 of them have serious issues with groomers. (one has been banned from at least 3 local groomers)

So what your suggesting is golden cockers are appearing in large numbers in pounds and rescues.
I've had many dogs over my life, one a mongrel had a vicious streak. I currently have a cockapoo and it's the gentlest dog I've ever seen, zero aggression, maybe I'm lucky.

The point is if your dog is large and powerful it shouldn't be in a situation where it can kill. It's the owners and not the dogs fault if something happens. The owner should be charged with manslaughter.
Why would you want to keep a dog that has to wear a muzzle & stay on lead in a public place, it seems cruel to me. Very few people have the setup to keep such an animal.

Iscreamkone

borderlinemeath wrote: »

RIP to the poor boy. The parents will never, ever get over this.

For all those that are focusing on the dogs here that are covered by restricted breed legislation - for every breed that is on it, there's a bigger, tougher breed that isn't. The answer isn't banning these dogs, but controlling who breeds them, raises them, and ultimately makes them the type of dog they are.

People who specifically get a dog as a guard dog or security, do not get them from somebody that breeds family pets. These were dogs that weren't part of the family, they didn't protect the family, they protected the business. No matter what breed of dog was in that yard, it was purely to guard that territory. They didn't view that poor boy as part of it's family and rather than protect him, they attacked him. That part is down not only to how they were trained, but also how they were excluded from the family unit. A common theme with dog attacks and fatalities is that the person attacked wasn't part of the dogs immediate family, Be that a grandchild, a visiting relative or friend, or a trespasser in the garden - plenty of dogs get riled by people on their territory. A well raised dog of whatever breed, shouldn't attack somebody they view as part of their family. There's always exceptions for illnesses, dogs that are provoked, badly treated etc, but not on this scale.

The parents should be brought up for manslaughter. They failed to protect their child from the dogs. End of.

ED E

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

That should be any young child and any animal. Going by breed is ridiculous though. I've had many dogs come through my house and, anecdotal as it is, I've only been bitten by a lab and a small terrier cross.

This trope misses the fecking point. Every time.


I've been nipped by a lab, big deal, cut my little finger. The point isnt "x is an aggressive dog" its certain dogs do more damage. If a collie binds onto your arm you have some hope of removing it, a full size GSD or a Rottweiler good luck to you. Could taze the thing and they'd not release.

Deebles McBeebles

ED E wrote: »

This trope misses the fecking point. Every time.


I've been nipped by a lab, big deal, cut my little finger. The point isnt "x is an aggressive dog" its certain dogs do more damage. If a collie binds onto your arm you have some hope of removing it, a full size GSD or a Rottweiler good luck to you. Could taze the thing and they'd not release.

Nope. Its the upbringing of the dog, not the breed. We're not talking about which dog can do more damage, that's fairly obvious and shouldn't need to be said. Big mouth/teeth do more damage, obviously.

LuasSimon

Is it the case the dogs were needed as there was a number of break ins previously and the owners got the dogs to protect their premises before this unfortunate episode.

borderlinemeath

Gerry T wrote: »

So what your suggesting is golden cockers are appearing in large numbers in pounds and rescues.
I've had many dogs over my life, one a mongrel had a vicious streak. I currently have a cockapoo and it's the gentlest dog I've ever seen, zero aggression, maybe I'm lucky.

The point is if your dog is large and powerful it shouldn't be in a situation where it can kill. It's the owners and not the dogs fault if something happens. The owner should be charged with manslaughter.
Why would you want to keep a dog that has to wear a muzzle & stay on lead in a public place, it seems cruel to me. Very few people have the setup to keep such an animal.

Cockapoos will. Soon enough. If you ever do see a golden cocker spaniel in rescue, chances are they won't rehome to a home with children. Not even older kids. Most reputable rescues have a policy of only rehoming when kids are a certain age. And then you see the ones that say "adult home only".

GSDs are on the RB list and as such are subjected to the muzzle/short leash/over 16s walking laws. GSDs are fabulous dogs, I personally have never met an aggressive one. I used to foster for a rescue that would take dogs from the pound and any GSDs that they took out came to me either from the pound or vets (usually to recover from neutering) for a while before being moved to a GSD specific rescue in Northern Ireland, where they are not subject to any BSL.
At one point a rescue GSD had a litter of pups here. She still comes to visit with one of her pups that the new owners kept. Both have fabulous temperaments, despite the mother being dumped in the pound while in pup.