Hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin combination being touted as a Corona treatment

mvl

anyone seen these reports about ivermectin ?


https://www.techtimes.com/articles/248592/20200404/coronavirus-cure-australian-scientists-find-drug-that-completely-stops-covid-19-from-replicating-but-its-originally-for-head-lice.htm

Phoebas

plodder wrote: »

Forget Fox, and focus on the doctor and what he is saying.

He doesn't mention the number of patients on the drug regimen, as compared with the 20 who needed intubation, but he said statistically - point zero, zero, zero something, which is far from scientific ... tailored for the viewers maybe.

He says he can't see any real reason for selection bias, but the initial 20 patients could have been much more severe, and the following ones less so due to knowing more about the condition and presenting sooner maybe. Who knows? We still have to wait for properly conducted trials.

But, it's hopeful news at least.

I'd be very sceptical of a doctor who declares that he thinks 'this is the beginning of the end for the pandemic'.

That's a grand claim based on his own observations, not a properly controlled study.

bo0li5eumx12kp

1) Blood plasma transfusion from recovered patients

2) Pneumonia vaccines (associated with lower death rates questionably)

3) Ivermectin


Cliff notes of last few posts.

Extremely small sample size from 1), 5 patients.

No idea about 2) but it couldn't hurt, right? (except your wallet, cause asshole pfizer are now charging 180 dollards per vaccination shot, of which there are 2 for pneumonia).

3) Sounds promising but only conducted in-vitro thus far? (i.e. cells outside of a living person).

sadie1502

Eliezer Shrilling Grassland wrote: »

1) Blood plasma transfusion from recovered patients

2) Pneumonia vaccines (associated with lower death rates questionably)

3) Ivermectin


Cliff notes of last few posts.

Extremely small sample size from 1), 5 patients.

No idea about 2) but it couldn't hurt, right? (except your wallet, cause asshole pfizer are now charging 180 dollards per vaccination shot, of which there are 2 for pneumonia).

3) Sounds promising but only conducted in-vitro thus far? (i.e. cells outside of a living person).

3. Sounds very promising.

bo0li5eumx12kp

sadie1502 wrote: »

3. Sounds very promising.

Let's imagine for a sec it actually demonstrated consistent efficacy in vivo (in actual people, clinical trials).

And when you tap "coronavirus" into your browser over the next morning or two, case rates have plummeted, recovery rates have soared, the pandemic is ending via this wonder drug which is widely available and highly affordable.

No crippled economies.

No job loss.

No more deaths and suffering.

.....

That's the world in which I want to one day live.

sadie1502

Eliezer Shrilling Grassland wrote: »

Let's imagine for a sec it actually demonstrated consistent efficacy in vivo (in actual people, clinical trials).

And when you tap "coronavirus" into your browser over the next morning or two, case rates have plummeted, recovery rates have soared, the pandemic is ending via this wonder drug which is widely available and highly affordable.

No crippled economies.

No job loss.

No more deaths and suffering.

.....

That's the world in which I want to one day live.

Me too. So you think when tested in Vivo it won't be promising.

bo0li5eumx12kp

Additional information around Ivermection seems to go to the tune of, "lots of things would kill covid in a test tube. In a living organism, they typically don't translate".

i.e. it's interdasting, but in and of itself is most unlikely to yield a relevant outcome in this crises.

sadie1502

:0(

It would never be that easy would it. We can hope.

stockshares

Trump wouldn't allow Fauci be asked a question on hydroxychloroquine and then ended the conference just now (Sunday Night/Mon Morning).

CNN saying Navarro and Fauci had a row over hydroxychloroquine in the WH and Navarro won. He's an Economist and Is the one who's driving its use

is_that_so

It may have been shared already but a piece expressing caution and describing some of the nasty side effects of hydroxychloroquine.
https://theconversation.com/chloroquine-and-hydroxychloroquine-no-proof-these-anti-malarial-drugs-prevent-novel-coronavirus-in-humans-134703

plodder

Well the good news is that since Trump is so enthusiastic, most people will naturally be cautious about it.

silverharp

This video was going erm a little viral yesterday. A NY ICU doc on the front line. Thinks the ventilator protocols need to be changed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9GYTc53r2o

stockshares

Sweden have stopped trials if Hydroxy dues to Seizures etc
https://twitter.com/mSaleemJaved/status/1246523470516817923?s=19

plodder

stockshares wrote: »

Sweden have stopped trials if Hydroxy dues to Seizures etc
https://twitter.com/mSaleemJaved/status/1246523470516817923?s=19

That seems to be talking about Chloroquine which is known to have more severe side-effects than Hydroxy-chloroquine. Maybe they are also testing with that..

stockshares

plodder wrote: »

That seems to be talking about Chloroquine which is known to have more severe side-effects than Hydroxy-chloroquine. Maybe they are also testing with that..

Apologies, I missed that.

begbysback

silverharp wrote: »

This video was going erm a little viral yesterday. A NY ICU doc on the front line. Thinks the ventilator protocols need to be changed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9GYTc53r2o

Really interesting, what sticks out in my mind as I watch this is another report I seen of Italian medical staff having a small celebration in an ICU ward after just one single person survived after been placed on a ventilator.

silverharp

Another positive for hydroxi

https://twitter.com/geoffpilkington/status/1247065352191660032

silverharp

begbysback wrote: »

Really interesting, what sticks out in my mind as I watch this is another report I seen of Italian medical staff having a small celebration in an ICU ward after just one single person survived after been placed on a ventilator.

At least some smart people are looking at it, if there is anything to it, it should bubble up. On the one hand odds without knowing anything , this goes against the odds of being true given how many doctors have had time to look at this by now. On the other hand sometimes it takes someone with a slightly different view of the world to see the free money on the table.

Deeper Blue

silverharp wrote: »

Another positive for hydroxi

https://twitter.com/geoffpilkington/status/1247065352191660032

That sounds very promising. Even as a stop gap solution. I've not heard the inclusion of zinc being mentioned previously

plodder

silverharp wrote: »

Another positive for hydroxi

https://twitter.com/geoffpilkington/status/1247065352191660032

Interesting. He's saying that it needs to be accompanied with Zinc and there is some suggested mechanism for how it stops the virus replication. Again though it's a small non-random sample, but hopefully at least one of the larger trials are using zinc as well.

Wibbs

IIRC that's part of the mechanism with the Chloroquine type drugs, they get zinc into infected cells which slows down or stops the cell from making more copies of the virus.

SuperTortoise

Im not a massive Trump fan by any stretch, but i feel he's right on large scale testing of hydroxchloroquine, at this stage in the game we have little to lose.

It's a drug used to treat malaria for the last 50 years so it's side effects are well known and are not severe except in those with heart problems. I know if i was stretched out on a bed struggling to breathe and this was offered to me i would'nt hesitate to give it a try.

plodder

Wibbs wrote: »

IIRC that's part of the mechanism with the Chloroquine type drugs, they get zinc into infected cells which slows down or stops the cell from making more copies of the virus.

Sure, I was just summarising what he said - which was that it doesn't work if you don't also provide zinc. I'm a bit sceptical of these doctors popping up on US TV, making grandiose claims, but maybe there is something to it.

Anita Blow

SuperTortoise wrote: »

Im not a massive Trump fan by any stretch, but i feel he's right on large scale testing of hydroxchloroquine, at this stage in the game we have little to lose.

It's a drug used to treat malaria for the last 50 years so it's side effects are well known and are not severe except in those with heart problems. I know if i was stretched out on a bed struggling to breathe and this was offered to me i would'nt hesitate to give it a try.

Its' side effects can be severe absolutely, and it's combined with Azithromycin both of which prolong the Qt Interval so potentiate each other in causing potentially fatal arrhythmias. Any patient on this regimen in hospital is requiring a daily ECG (resource intensive) to monitor their QTC.

The evidence for Hydroxy/Azithro is painfully weak and here in Ireland we're essentially just using it because everyone else is but only in patients who are deteriorating despite best supportive care. In these cases, the potential risks (when mitigated by close inpatient monitoring with ECG and cardiac biomarkers) are less than the potential risks of not using it.

On a risk VS benefit basis you could't recommend such a toxic, unproven treatment to mild cases. Trump is building this treatment up to be something it's not, and in doing so is sewing discord among some sections of the public against the medical community because their president has touted this as some sort of miracle cure.

begbysback

Anita Blow wrote: »

Its' side effects can be severe absolutely, and it's combined with Azithromycin both of which prolong the Qt Interval so potentiate each other in causing potentially fatal arrhythmias. Any patient on this regimen in hospital is requiring a daily ECG (resource intensive) to monitor their QTC.

The evidence for Hydroxy/Azithro is painfully weak and here in Ireland we're essentially just using it because everyone else is but only in patients who are deteriorating despite best supportive care. In these cases, the potential risks (when mitigated by close inpatient monitoring with ECG and cardiac biomarkers) are less than the potential risks of not using it.

On a risk VS benefit basis you could't recommend such a toxic, unproven treatment to mild cases. Trump is building this treatment up to be something it's not, and in doing so is sewing discord among some sections of the public against the medical community because their president has touted this as some sort of miracle cure.

I personally don’t think the discord between the public & medical community is caused by trump, fair enough he probably doesn’t help it, but the public are shown death rates per country and can’t help but notice the discrepancies. Ok some can be put down to inaccurate reporting, but others just don’t make sense - there is no transparency with regards to effectiveness or treatments. The notions of viral load, different strains, and better prepared healthcare systems just don’t add up.

sadie1502

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-more-striking-evidence-bcg-vaccine-might-protect-against-covid-19-1.4222110

Arrival

sadie1502 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-more-striking-evidence-bcg-vaccine-might-protect-against-covid-19-1.4222110

Would most of us be vaccinated with that?

How could we find out for certain if we are or aren't, anyone know?

mvl

Arrival wrote: »

Would most of us be vaccinated with that?

How could we find out for certain if we are or aren't, anyone know?

I've a scar on my upper arm from it. but that only tells me I had the one or two vaccines they were giving us when I was in school.
tbh, don't know what to think about it: BCG offers incomplete immunity towards pulmonary TB, which is a bacterial infection ...
- unless they are saying the BCG vaccine triggered some special antibodies in population that had it, which provides a herd buffer against this virus, is this what they are saying ?

begbysback

Arrival wrote: »

Would most of us be vaccinated with that?

How could we find out for certain if we are or aren't, anyone know?

Seems to be clickbait, where’s the “striking evidence”?? A study says there seems to be less cases in countries with a vaccination program.

mvl

BCG is controversial, various studies from years ago - e.g. from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29324233 :

"BCG induces epigenetic reprogramming in human monocytes in vivo, followed by functional reprogramming and protection against non-related viral infections, with a key role for IL-1β as a mediator of trained immunity responses."


But China does BCG vaccination too, and that says alot about this context imo.