Hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin combination being touted as a Corona treatment

Jurgen Klopp

begbysback wrote: »

This is surely the next step here, can only assume there is a shortage at the moment, which is why the directive has not yet been given.

What gets me Begby is the HSE deliberately spreading the "masks don't protect you" and it's amazing how many people have swallowed it hook, line and sinker

I used work in healthcare and even a surgical mask will offer a little protection compared to nothing and they know this.

Most importantly as I said is it cuts down on spreaders by containing droplets.

If they had just been honest and said home made masks and wash at 90c after use offer good protection as we need proper PPE for hospitals as they are exposed more

What worries me now is when it's acknowledged we need to wear masks even officially we'll now have lots saying "ah **** that sure they said a mask wouldn't help and now they do sure they don't know their arse from their elbow"

iguana

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

What gets me Begby is the HSE deliberately spreading the "masks don't protect you" and it's amazing how many people have swallowed it hook, line and sinker

I used work in healthcare and even a surgical mask will offer a little protection compared to nothing and they know this.

Most importantly as I said is it cuts down on spreaders by containing droplets.

Wouldn't anything wrapped around your mouth and nose help avoid spreading the virus? I had been wrapping a scarf a few times around my mouth and nose, sometimes with a dust mask under it for the last week that I was out. I've had a respiratory illness of some sort since the 18th and was last shopping a few hours before my symptoms started. If I do have Covid I'm hoping that having the scarf around my face will have protected anyone who was around me that day and the days before.

silverharp

https://twitter.com/Real_Israeli/status/1245343294491680768

Wibbs

I had a totally oddball and almost certainly daft as fook thought about common drugs and this dose... This virus attaches to the ACE enzyme on your lung surfactant cells, that's how it gets in. What about the ACE inhibitor drugs commonly used worldwide for the regulation of high blood pressure? I noted early on one of the main conditions that suffer worse with this virus is people with high blood pressure. Now of course their bodies are already under stress and likely have cardiovascular problems too so any extra stress... Do people with certain types of high blood pressure have more ACE enyzme floating about? Could those class of drugs inhibit enough of the ACE enzyme to reduce the amount the virus could latch onto, or at least reduce levels alongside other therapies? I wonder are there any figures for any difference in progression and outcome between people with high BP on beta blockers compared to those on ACE inhibitors?

bo0li5eumx12kp

Curious what the effective dose of azithromycin is.

Typically it's 500 mg daily, up to 1 or 2 grams maximum - but for this virus, can't find any reports.

Hydroxychloroquine is normally dosed at 600 mg daily.

odyssey06

Re: ACE inhibitors...it is being monitored. Concerns it could increase risk but in theory should protect against severe complications.
https://www.healio.com/cardiology/vascular-medicine/news/online/%7Bfe7f0842-aecb-417b-9ecf-3fe7e0ddd991%7D/cardiology-societies-recommend-patients-taking-ace-inhibitors-arbs-who-contract-covid-19-should-continue-treatment?page=2

BanditLuke

I know zero zip nadda about medicine. Is it possible this is enough of a "wonder drug" that it could allow normal life to resume within the next say two months? The figures being posted look very promising

cunnifferous

Wibbs wrote: »

I had a totally oddball and almost certainly daft as fook thought about common drugs and this dose... This virus attaches to the ACE enzyme on your lung surfactant cells, that's how it gets in. What about the ACE inhibitor drugs commonly used worldwide for the regulation of high blood pressure? I noted early on one of the main conditions that suffer worse with this virus is people with high blood pressure. Now of course their bodies are already under stress and likely have cardiovascular problems too so any extra stress... Do people with certain types of high blood pressure have more ACE enyzme floating about? Could those class of drugs inhibit enough of the ACE enzyme to reduce the amount the virus could latch onto, or at least reduce levels alongside other therapies? I wonder are there any figures for any difference in progression and outcome between people with high BP on beta blockers compared to those on ACE inhibitors?

I think it's the opposite of what you think actually. Often when you reduce a signal within a system the cell responds by upregulation of the receptor to try and restore the signal to the normal level.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30116-8/fulltext

Esel

Eliezer Shrilling Grassland wrote: »

Curious what the effective dose of azithromycin is.

Typically it's 500 mg daily, up to 1 or 2 grams maximum - but for this virus, can't find any reports.

Hydroxychloroquine is normally dosed at 600 mg daily.

Are you planning to self-medicate?

Arrival

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

The Czech Republic also believe mandatory mask wearing in public is as important as washing hands and social distancing, for preventing people from shedding the virus more than preventing getting it.

It's why they've made it mandatory

I really don't understand why we didn't/don't make a similar effort here to be honest

Wibbs

cunnifferous wrote: »

I think it's the opposite of what you think actually. Often when you reduce a signal within a system the cell responds by upregulation of the receptor to try and restore the signal to the normal level.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30116-8/fulltext

Ah right C thanks, cool read. That makes perfect sense of course. Like if you take testosterone for body building your nuts shrink and your natural production falls off a cliff as your body looks to getting back to stasis.

Though you may have missed the part where I said "oddball and almost certainly daft as fook". That's my baseline, anything beyond that is occasional and occasionally miraculous.

Wibbs

Arrival wrote: »

I really don't understand why we didn't/don't make a similar effort here to be honest

Not enough reserves of stock for medical staff, so they didn't want a run on the stuff in shops. Simple as that. It wasn't based on clinical opinion, much more on practical. Ditto for the CDC in the US, the NHS in the UK and so on.

bo0li5eumx12kp

Esel wrote: »

Are you planning to self-medicate?

I just want to know precisely what to yell at some student doctor before I undergo invasive ventilation.

Esel

Eliezer Shrilling Grassland wrote: »

I just want to know precisely what to yell at some student doctor before I undergo invasive ventilation.

You will be rasping, not yelling. Be sure to gasp "Stat!" too.

Deep Thought

Eliezer Shrilling Grassland wrote: »

I just want to know precisely what to yell at some student doctor before I undergo invasive ventilation.

Strange.. going by the comments in here thought every person on here was a qualified medical doctor.

Arrival

BanditLuke wrote: »

I know zero zip nadda about medicine. Is it possible this is enough of a "wonder drug" that it could allow normal life to resume within the next say two months? The figures being posted look very promising

I'd say the best approach would be for them to actually treat people with it and get on top of things before they even announce that this is likely going to help the majority of people, simply because if they announce it before that point then we'll have so many idiots running around disregarding the possibility of it spreading further. Once they get things in control, they could have the contact tracing and isolation situation setup to work very well and gradually lift the restrictions

Arrival

Wibbs wrote: »

Not enough reserves of stock for medical staff, so they didn't want a run on the stuff in shops. Simple as that. It wasn't based on clinical opinion, much more on practical. Ditto for the CDC in the US, the NHS in the UK and so on.

Neither did Czechia, that's why they had a huge increase in people sewing their own homemade masks, and that's what I'm mostly talking about. Hopefully the Frontline staff have enough PPE now, I wonder if there's any news on that

sadie1502

cunnifferous wrote: »

I think it's the opposite of what you think actually. Often when you reduce a signal within a system the cell responds by upregulation of the receptor to try and restore the signal to the normal level.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30116-8/fulltext

So beta blockers and ace inhibitors do the same job, but in a different way? But people taking ace inhibitors have had a worse outcome against covid 19? Or am I reading it wrong?

sadie1502

sadie1502 wrote: »

So beta blockers and ace inhibitors do the same job, but in a different way? But people taking ace inhibitors have had a worse outcome against covid 19? Or am I reading it wrong?

Beta blockers are better at controlling her heart rate which has a side effect of reducing your blood pressure. ACE inhibitors are first line medication for high blood pressure in under 55s.

cunnifferous

Wibbs wrote: »

Ah right C thanks, cool read. That makes perfect sense of course. Like if you take testosterone for body building your nuts shrink and your natural production falls off a cliff as your body looks to getting back to stasis.

Though you may have missed the part where I said "oddball and almost certainly daft as fook". That's my baseline, anything beyond that is occasional and occasionally miraculous.

Haha there was some method in the madness I'll give you that

I was looking at that paper as it also offered a mechanism by which ibuprofen could make Covid symptoms worse. I'm personally skeptical and think NSAIDs will prove beneficial in relieving symptoms but we shall see!

sadie1502

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Beta blockers are better at controlling her heart rate which has a side effect of reducing your blood pressure. ACE inhibitors are first line medication for high blood pressure in under 55s.

So they basically do the same thing. And the highest deaths seem to be in that category of people on those medications.

The Hound Gone Wild

sadie1502 wrote: »

So they basically do the same thing. And the highest deaths seem to be in that category of people on those medications.

Beta blockers and ACEi do the same thing the same way a tommy gun and a sniper rifle do the same thing

The Hound Gone Wild

Wibbs wrote: »

I had a totally oddball and almost certainly daft as fook thought about common drugs and this dose... This virus attaches to the ACE enzyme on your lung surfactant cells, that's how it gets in. What about the ACE inhibitor drugs commonly used worldwide for the regulation of high blood pressure? I noted early on one of the main conditions that suffer worse with this virus is people with high blood pressure. Now of course their bodies are already under stress and likely have cardiovascular problems too so any extra stress... Do people with certain types of high blood pressure have more ACE enyzme floating about? Could those class of drugs inhibit enough of the ACE enzyme to reduce the amount the virus could latch onto, or at least reduce levels alongside other therapies? I wonder are there any figures for any difference in progression and outcome between people with high BP on beta blockers compared to those on ACE inhibitors?

ACE and ACE2 do completely opposite things, raise and lower BP respectively. ACEi haven't been shown to have any effect on ACE2 in humans afaik.

sadie1502

SARS 1 did they not develop a vaccine? I thought they had a lot of research of developing a vaccine. How did they treat SARS?

Jurgen Klopp

iguana wrote: »

Wouldn't anything wrapped around your mouth and nose help avoid spreading the virus? I had been wrapping a scarf a few times around my mouth and nose, sometimes with a dust mask under it for the last week that I was out. I've had a respiratory illness of some sort since the 18th and was last shopping a few hours before my symptoms started. If I do have Covid I'm hoping that having the scarf around my face will have protected anyone who was around me that day and the days before.

Ah yes iguana as long as it's not one that's full of holes design wise wrapping it a couple times will greatly reduce the viral load you would shed. I am using a penny's snood one of the fleece ones it will gather as much as any non PPE will and at least I can toss it in at 90c too

I'd love to make some homemade ones but I've no elastic, but plenty of cotton I can sow by hand but trying to see what is use in place of sewn on elastic

I don't want to use any cord like material as I don't know if the tightly twisted fibres will cleanse correctly even at 90c

I'm looking into using some light gardening wire instead but that entails having to cut 4 holes form the front of the mask to run them through so I'd probably be defeating the purpose of containing the viral load

RoYoBo

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

I'd love to make some homemade ones but I've no elastic, but plenty of cotton I can sow by hand but trying to see what is use in place of sewn on elastic

Big rubber bands? Or ... ahem ... some knicker elastic from an old pair.

sadie1502

sadie1502 wrote: »

SARS 1 did they not develop a vaccine? I thought they had a lot of research of developing a vaccine. How did they treat SARS?

They said: phew, dodged a bullet there, thankfully nothing like that can ever happen again so no need to research coronavirus vaccines, treatment options etc.

sadie1502

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They said: phew, dodged a bullet there, thankfully nothing like that can ever happen again so no need to research coronavirus vaccines, treatment options etc.

Really. Surly they knew it could happen again.

CIARAN_BOYLE

sadie1502 wrote: »

Really. Surly they knew it could happen again.

They made the determination that anything they developed for sars would be of academic value only and would not be effective the next time a coronavirus emerged.

Wibbs

There wasn't any money behind it essentially so the preliminary work didn't get far. And though SARS(and MERS) was a bit of a panic it was an easier virus to control as it wasn't as infectious and most of all you were really only infectious when you had clear symptoms. Covid is a bastard because it's both fairly infectious(though nothing like measles for example) and is infectious before you come down with symptoms. Though Hollywood loves an ebola type virus in disaster films it's not ever likely to go pandemic. Again because you're clearly horribly unwell when you become infectious and it isn't as easy to transmit, so it tends to be spread among close family members, health workers and funeral practices rather than wider community spread.