Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Happyilylost

joeguevara wrote: »

The penny has dropped. You have no clue. You cannot show me a law. Im off to court with a copy of the Kerryman. Hope the Judge lets me use it as a substitute for the Criminal Justice Act 2010.

I've no idea why you've moved onto "newspapers won't hold up in court" I'm simply providing verified unbiased information that states a) you cannot have an outdoor gathering of over 30 people and if you do it can be punished by the PSNI in Northern Ireland.

Direct quote from the BBC article.

Can I hold a party?
In England, the law allows you to meet in a group of up to 30 people outside, or at home.

Outside means any public place - including beaches, parks, streets and the countryside.

So, if you want to organise a picnic or garden party you can now invite 29 guests.

If you go above that number, the police can turn up and force people to leave. They could issue you with a penalty ticket.

These start at £100 (or £50 if paid within 14 days), rising to £3,200 for six or more offences. In exceptional cases, the Crown Prosecution Service could take someone to court.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

But is one worse than the other in your view? Sounds a bit Danny Healy Rae to me to be dancing on a pin here. It's a right or wrong issue for me.

Is being caught speeding at 3 times the speed limit worse than being caught just above the speed limit?

Doing 150km in a 50 zone is no worse than doing 55?

Is that your line of argument?

joeguevara

Happyilylost wrote: »

I've no idea why you've moved onto "newspapers won't hold up in court" I'm simply providing verified unbiased information that states a) you cannot have an outdoor gathering of over 30 people and if you do it can be punished by the PSNI in Northern Ireland.

Direct quote from the BBC article.

Can I hold a party?
In England, the law allows you to meet in a group of up to 30 people outside, or at home.

Outside means any public place - including beaches, parks, streets and the countryside.

So, if you want to organise a picnic or garden party you can now invite 29 guests.

If you go above that number, the police can turn up and force people to leave. They could issue you with a penalty ticket.

These start at £100 (or £50 if paid within 14 days), rising to £3,200 for six or more offences. In exceptional cases, the Crown Prosecution Service could take someone to court.

England, yeah? Fair play.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Is being caught speeding at 3 times the speed limit worse than being caught just above the speed limit?

Doing 150km in a 50 zone is no worse than doing 55?

Is that your line of argument?

Knowingly being over the limit in anything is the line with me particularly with a drug.
If you are prepared to drive over the limit, then 'how far over' conversations are moot.
If you think there are degrees that are ok...get behind the Healy Raes.

christy c

It seems the handwaving away of Buckleys offence is taking the form of it being old news, and whatabout Barry Cowen. As one of the SF fans say, one doesn't cancel the other.

McMurphy

christy c wrote: »

It seems the handwaving away of Buckleys offence is taking the form of it being old news, and whatabout Barry Cowen. As one of the SF fans say, one doesn't cancel the other.

Both Buckley and Cowen were wrong, you will note it was someone far from being a "SF fan" that got the "one is worse than the other" ball rolling.

Keep up.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Knowingly being over the limit in anything is the line with me particularly with a drug.
If you are prepared to drive over the limit, then 'how far over' conversations are moot.
If you think there are degrees that are ok...get behind the Healy Raes.

There are degrees
Judges are needed for the bigger offences

Happyilylost

joeguevara wrote: »

England, yeah? Fair play.

Memory issues to contend with also. Posted yesterday.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/coronavirus-covid-19-recovery-plan

Indoor activities involving larger number of individuals where social distancing can be maintained for individuals who do not share a household connection. Outdoor activities involving larger groups of less than 30 people during which it may be difficult to maintain social distancing but where contacts are brief (less than 10 minutes).

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Knowingly being over the limit in anything is the line with me particularly with a drug.
If you are prepared to drive over the limit, then 'how far over' conversations are moot.
If you think there are degrees that are ok...get behind the Healy Raes.

You are no legal expert are you Francie.

Not surprising given your defence of the indefensible on here. Once a line is crossed as you say, everything is fair game. That’s why once shots are fired to defend one’s community blowing up children buying shoes is equivalent as the “line” has already been crossed.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You are no legal expert are you Francie.

Not surprising given your defence of the indefensible on here. Once a line is crossed as you say, everything is fair game. That’s why once shots are fired to defend one’s community blowing up children buying shoes is equivalent as the “line” has already been crossed.

I think what happened on this island was wrong, totally wrong from the get go. I have never defended or glorified violence either.

Which matches exactly to my my opinion of drink driving...it is wrong from the minute you get behind the wheel.
You have degrees of 'wrongness' attached to legal definitions.

christy c

McMurphy wrote: »

Both Buckley and Cowen were wrong, you will note it was someone far from being a "SF fan" that got the "one is worse than the other" ball rolling.

Keep up.

I'm fully up to date with the hand waving, thanks anyway.

McMurphy

christy c wrote: »

I'm fully up to date with the hand waving, thanks anyway.

Sorry, it's just who's engaging in it you're having difficulties with is it?

christy c

McMurphy wrote: »

Sorry, it's just who's engaging in it you're having difficulties with is it?

Not having difficulties at all.

McMurphy

christy c wrote: »

Not having difficulties at all.

Evidently you are Christopher, you made a series of brainfart posts about handwaving, can you perhaps point to whom was engaging in it?

I'll give you a fools pardon if you've misread posts btw.

It's sh1t or get off the pot time.

joeguevara

Happyilylost wrote: »

Memory issues to contend with also. Posted yesterday.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/coronavirus-covid-19-recovery-plan

Indoor activities involving larger number of individuals where social distancing can be maintained for individuals who do not share a household connection. Outdoor activities involving larger groups of less than 30 people during which it may be difficult to maintain social distancing but where contacts are brief (less than 10 minutes).

Ok. This is my issue. I asked what Law Sinn Fein broke or indeed the individual from Sin Fein broke. I know that you have quoted specific rules, and thanks for taking the time to do so.

But it is unclear (and its not your fault) what the actual breach is and who would receive a fine. It appears to be the organiser of the event which in this case would be the family of the deceased and not the individuals themselves. Also, who is to say that the people from Sinn Fein leadership who are being denigrated are not within the first 30 people which is allowed and therefore they have not broken any 'rules'.

The fact that there is no actual published law which can be tested, reviewed, see if its strict liability or a reasonable test etc means calling for resignations (not you)a strange scenario. It appears that the fines or 'penalty notices' as set out in the newspaper articles are for failing to follow the direction of the police officer rather than for any orgignal offence. So any report of reviewing footage to determine offences is posturing.

christy c

McMurphy wrote: »

Evidently you are Christopher, you made a series of brainfart posts about handwaving, can you perhaps point to whom was engaging in it?

I'll give you a fools pardon if you've misread posts btw.

It's sh1t or get off the pot time.

First post from yourself "Anyway, that was reported on back in 2013 - old news in other words."- nice bit of handwaving.

What was that about brainfarts and fool's pardons?

Mortelaro

joeguevara wrote: »

Ok. This is my issue. I asked what Law Sinn Fein broke or indeed the individual from Sin Fein broke. I know that you have quoted specific rules, and thanks for taking the time to do so.

The UK covid19 emergency act 2020 Linked to you pages back which gave the suite of powers to the police throughout the UK and the devolved governments the power to decide the offences

McMurphy

christy c wrote: »

First post from yourself "Anyway, that was reported on back in 2013 - old news in other words."- nice bit of handwaving.

What was that about brainfarts and fool's pardons?

The poster I replied to questioned why the IRA have been quiet on Buckley's breathalyser test.

I replied that apart from them being disbanded for over twenty years, it was already in the public domain. Unless of course the poster was suggesting the Ra should regroup and issue a statement on an already 7 year old news article.

**Whoosh**

As I said - fools pardon has been issued.


Now, any examples of this handwaving?

christy c

McMurphy wrote: »

The poster I replied to questioned why the IRA have been quiet on Buckley's breathalyser test.

I replied that apart from them being disbanded for over twenty years, it was already in the public domain. Unless of course the poster was suggesting the Ra should regroup and issue a statement on an already 7 year old news article.

**Whoosh**

As I said - fools pardon has been issued.


Now, any examples of this handwaving?

Whoosh, LOL.

I have you an example of you handwaving the story away by saying it was old news. Seems you had your own whoosh moment.

Happyilylost

joeguevara wrote: »

Ok. This is my issue. I asked what Law Sinn Fein broke or indeed the individual from Sin Fein broke. I know that you have quoted specific rules, and thanks for taking the time to do so.

But it is unclear (and its not your fault) what the actual breach is and who would receive a fine. It appears to be the organiser of the event which in this case would be the family of the deceased and not the individuals themselves. Also, who is to say that the people from Sinn Fein leadership who are being denigrated are not within the first 30 people which is allowed and therefore they have not broken any 'rules'.

The fact that there is no actual published law which can be tested, reviewed, see if its strict liability or a reasonable test etc means calling for resignations (not you)a strange scenario. It appears that the fines or 'penalty notices' as set out in the newspaper articles are for failing to follow the direction of the police officer rather than for any orgignal offence. So any report of reviewing footage to determine offences is posturing.

This is the name of the legislation that was introduced on the 28.3.2020.

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2020

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisr/2020/55/contents/made

I'm going to have to leave it at that. I don't know enough about it. Nor in a position to work through it. The wording is I think made intentionally vague to give the PSNI as wide a scope of powers as possible. The PSNI have handed out fines for gatherings. They felt it necessary to look into this gathering. I'll leave it to the PSNI to decide if a law was broken.

McMurphy

christy c wrote: »

Whoosh, LOL.

I have you an example of you handwaving the story away by saying it was old news. Seems you had your own whoosh moment.

Poorly researched argument Christopher, and you should feel bad.

Yeah_Right

maccored wrote: »

my god - what kind of debating is that? no longer OPERATIONAL means THEY NO LONGER DO ANYTHING regardless if the name is still there or not. A name is a bunch of letters and pretty useless if the body it represents is no longer operational

Theres time I wonder how some people can figure out how to open a door.

Are you sure the IRA are no longer operational? Didn't they carry out some bomb, grenade and mortar attacks on the PSNI last year? I thought they also planted bombs in a London train station and airport recently. Lyra McKee was murdered last year. Wasn't there foiled plan to explode a bomb on Brexit Day? Sure, they're no longer operational :rolleyes:

Truthvader

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If the GAA, Soccer Club, Golf Club want to show their respect as a 'group' at a funeral...what do they do? The wear shirts and club tie.

You can review photos of the state funeral to see recent examples of this.

As ever Francie you just don't get it.

A state funeral for a brave member of the Guards who served this country proudly and selflessly in the Uniform of the Guards is not comparable to the funeral of a thug who was a member of a criminal gang.

The comparison to a "club" is pitiful

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

As ever Francie you just don't get it.

A state funeral for a brave member of the Guards who served this country proudly and selflessly in the Uniform of the Guards is not comparable to the funeral of a thug who was a member of a criminal gang.

The comparison to a "club" is pitiful

How many people at that funeral in Belfast are off the opinion they were at the funeral of a 'thug' and a 'member of a criminal gang' ?

If you don't accept the analogy of a 'club' then you haven't a hope of undetstanding.
Perhaps one has already made ones mind up?

Truthvader

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How many people at that funeral in Belfast are off the opinion they were at the funeral of a 'thug' and a 'member of a criminal gang' ?

If you don't accept the analogy of a 'club' then you haven't a hope of undetstanding.
Perhaps one has already made ones mind up?

One certainly has

dundalkfc10

We still talking about a funeral last week in Belfast.

blanch152

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

We still talking about a funeral last week in Belfast.

Yes, it seems the stories go on and on.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0708/1152037-bobby-storey-funeral/


"The council has described a decision to allow Mr Storey's family to hold a private service at Roselawn Crematorium last Tuesday, while eight other families were not permitted to do so, as "an error of judgement".

In a joint statement this afternoon its Chief Executive Suzanne Wylie and senior officer Nigel Grimshaw said they recognised the events were "unacceptable".

They also apologised to the other families "wholeheartedly and unreservedly"."

It seems that everyone is apologising apart from Sinn Fein.

We were told on this thread only a few pages ago that it was standard practice to cancel these other cremations. Not so, it seems. Was there another lie peddled by those defending Sinn Fein?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If the GAA, Soccer Club, Golf Club want to show their respect as a 'group' at a funeral...what do they do? The wear shirts and club tie.

You can review photos of the state funeral to see recent examples of this.

So what group were in uniform at the Storey funeral?

We would recognise the colours of a GAA, Soccer or rugby club, so who were the men in white shirts representing?

James Brown

rdwight wrote: »

You seem a little confused, Bowie. Surprising since one thing we Irish consider ourselves experts on is funerals.

Crematoriums are sometimes located in graveyards eg Mount Jerome and Glasnevin in Dublin. In some cases the main funeral service takes place in a church or chapel elsewhere and a short final service is conducted in the crematorium before, as you put it, the coffin goes behind a curtain. Since you don't seem to know what happens then, the answer is that the body is burned.

In other cases, particularly for non-religious funerals, the entire service is conducted in the crematorium.

The issue with Strorey funeral is that thousands of people went from the church to Milltown cemetery when the crematorium was in fact several miles in a different direction. Turning funerals into political circuses is a well established SF/IRA custom, but doing so in the middle of a pandemic is particularly crass.

How is my saying I don't know and telling what I witnessed 'confused'? You wouldn't be trying to make it sound like something it isn't? You might not be use to straight talk.
Now you proceed to tell me how funerals work sometimes backing up my descriptions.
Cremations mean the body gets burned? You don't say? :rolleyes:

So you didn't like there funeral because the traditional escorting of the coffin wasn't to your liking because of who the man was. So what?
We long covered the covid/health angle. The macabre boys had issue with the mechanics of the funeral. That's the creepy vent you've chimed in on.

Desperate lads.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

How is my saying I don't know and telling what I witnessed 'confused'? You wouldn't be trying to make it sound like something it isn't? You might not be use to straight talk.
Now you proceed to tell me how funerals work sometimes backing up my descriptions.
Cremations mean the body gets burned? You don't say? :rolleyes:

So you didn't like there funeral because the traditional escorting of the coffin wasn't to your liking because of who the man was. So what?

Desperate lads.

Are you suggesting that Sinn Fein were allowed carry out the traditional escorting of the coffin during a pandemic when others were not allowed do that?

One rule for Sinn Fein, one rule for ordinary people.