Working From Home Megathread

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088253#Comment_119088253

Also seen a lot of paper process replaced in the last two years. Also many systems that didn't have remote access have been given remote access through remote desktops, portals, gateways etc. Phone systems replaced with Voip systems. Systems moved to cloud based versions.

If nothing else a lot of technical barriers have been removed.

Only fly in that is the HSE security breach. Which I think caused them to do the opposite and shut down a lot of remote access. But they were forced to invest in their infrastructure and security. So even they will have added lots of new capability to their systems very quickly after years of stagnation.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088344#Comment_119088344

They aren't trying to save money with outsourcing. They are trying to attract top talent with world class facilities. Then milk every last drop of value out of them by giving them no reason to leave the office. I've been there in my youth with one of these as a contractor.

Look at the age profiles of these companies.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088302#Comment_119088302

We've had problems pre COVID with trying to recruit people without wfh. Only worse now even with partial wfh in place. We go through a recruitment campaigns only for the successful candidate to ghost us.

I was talking to someone in a startup and they are giving techies top notch equipment to work from home. We can't compete with that.

One thing a lot of the wfh naysayers seem to forget is remote working removes capacity constraints from companies too. I've seen it in my own place where they spent millions getting a building, kitting it out and setting it up for office staff with a capacity of around 100-150, can't recall the exact number. They had it filled before it was even open which meant they were at capacity straight away and constrained again.

Now the exact same space is used by a handful of 100% onsite and the rest are hot desks with approx 350 people assigned to the space so about 300% ish in terms of capacity gain. Since adopting this there has never been a day when its been anywhere near 50% full so I can see them assigning close to 500 to the space as time goes by.

Without adopting wfh in a big way they would not have had space for those extra people without massive additional investment and significant delay in sourcing location, contractors, materials, etc.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088348#Comment_119088348

Yes, that is all true - at least now it is very much feasible from a technical standpoint for organisations that may not have been set up for it in the past. A lot of the "old" processes and procedures have been streamlined as well.

That said, it really is about the leadership in the organisation and whether they are open to putting in place the policies and support structures around it to and then to allow their staff be adults. If you CAN do you job remotely you SHOULD at least be allowed to do so if you wish. Organisations that don't go down this path may stuggle to attract and retain people.

There are far more benefits that negatives to WFH in a world where Covid restrictions on our regular lives are not in place.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088466#Comment_119088466

Forget precovid, it’s gone, the world is a different place now, particularly the workplace. Only the naive would think that employers will continue to look only in domestic markets for wfh employees. It literally makes no difference where in the world you are as long as you have access to broadband and set up tax-wise.

Mrs OBumble

I love all the "just trust the employees that the work will get done".

I'm in a situation now where a colleague isn't getting the work done. Constantly say it will be, but then doesn't deliver, or does a half-arsed job. With WFH it's a lot harder for the manager to diagnose the real issue and so know what to fix And as a colleague, I'm getting mighty sick of picking up the slack.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088667#Comment_119088667

The manager is crap then. Most managers these days will have remote reports. Before Covid my reports were in 4 different countries. I could "diagnose" poor productivity with ease. Seriously you are stretching so badly now that it must be sore.

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088667#Comment_119088667

I understand your point but that's really a management and process failing rather than a work location failing. WFH does need some process change to shift how output is measured. If the manager is not able to accurately measure how much is actually being achieved by their reports without physically being in the same place as them and, presumably, watching them actually work, then it's a process problem.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088667#Comment_119088667

In fairness Mrs OBumble, you will literally only see the negative in WFH - you've been that way since day one.

There are far too many people with that same mindset making decisions in the organisation I am in right now and it will lead to a far worse organisation in the medium to long term if they don't see the benefits of changing their mindsets.

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088667#Comment_119088667

Just as bad as the employee who does get the week's work done on the Monday and spends the rest of the week dossing at home. At least in the office, it's more noticeable they are slack or the employees will take up something else out of sheer boredom.

That motivation is gone if they safely tucked away at home.

Especially more technical work. The manager or business may not know how long a task should or should not take.

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088757#Comment_119088757

But what does that matter? They've got a weeks worth of work done, they get paid a weeks salary. How is that a negative?

You still have the same output but a happier employee. win win, no?

average_runner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088154#Comment_119088154

This theory has been around since year 2000. Why dont companies setup over in India instead of here.

Funnily enough the best Indian software engineers comes to Ireland as there is much more to learn and the culture is not cut throat.

limnam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088667#Comment_119088667

With all your experience working in pretty much every company and role going

You're really bad at picking companies to work for.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088757#Comment_119088757

the employee who does get the week's work done on the Monday and spends the rest of the week dossing

Poor resource management and task planning is not the fault of the employee.

If there's no work to do, there's no work to do. That's not a wfh issue, like so many supposed issies, it comes down to poor management.

This "omg I can't see when they are not working" is just silly. You set tasks according to the schedule of need, they get done, there is no issue. By analysing the work content you understand the capacity required and can increase or decrease the amount of work assigned to ensure tasks are completed according to schedule.

Or, ya know, have everyone pretend to be busy when they are not.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088667#Comment_119088667

It's of no surprise that you work somewhere with poor resource management capabilities. It's evident from all the issues you seem to be having. Honestly, I don't know how you manage, I'd have quit ages ago

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088757#Comment_119088757

That's just another example of poor management and nothing to do with WFH or otherwise..

Needing staff in the office to "watch" them is a crutch for poor management.

If a manager doesn't understand the workload and outputs , they are a crap manager , WFH isn't a factor.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088775#Comment_119088775

Again, it is naive to think that conditions today are the same as those in 2000, or even those in 2019. Indian engineers will not come to Ireland if there is no accommodation, besides, there is no need to if everyone is working remotely. If their team/manager now works from a room in their home, why on Earth do they need to come to Ireland?

There are lots of reasons why companies have set up here, chief among them our low corporation tax and what used to be the expertise of our office based domestic workforce. Now that workforce no longer needs to be office based, nor domestic.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088706#Comment_119088706

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088704#Comment_119088704

The manager is totally able to measure the situation and aware of it.

They talk to the employee, who has a (flimsy) reason and says the work will be done tomorrow. Its not. Or it is, and something else isn't. Rinse and repeat.

So the manager has to figure out what's really causing the problem and how to fix it. That's the bit that a lot harder with limited casual interactions and work behavior observation.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088978#Comment_119088978

Ah stop. You are stuck in the dark ages. Companies no longer have the capacity, setup or work culture for managers to be micro-managing and observing employees as they work. If that's your best employee motivation/performance technique, you have bigger problems. If you have a non-performer or poor quality output, the manager needs to ask them straight out what the issue is and come up with some remediation actions - it was the exact same in 2019. There is zero justification here for work-from-office. You are just making up stories. In my previous employment I had reports in 4 different countries. I never met 70% of them face-to-face but I believe I had a good working relationship with all of them and we got the work done. My manager was in the US and I never met her either - she was superb at her job.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088978#Comment_119088978

A manager can figure out the problem by hopping on a zoom call and having a chat.

A struggling employee would more than likely be more open on zoom than face to face.

What do you mean by work behaviour observation, are you saying a manager looking at an employee at a desk will tell them what the problem is.

No talking to them will tell them what the problem is.

Everything you have said above points to a bad manager out of depth failing to help a struggling employee.

That manager might need a bit of help from his manager.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088846#Comment_119088846

Talking to Estate agents, often its the well paid Tech and Finance workers who can afford the accommodation and even the companies subsidizing/paying for it.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119088978#Comment_119088978

Sounds like they don't have metrics or KPI's either in or out of the office.

What's more they never did and aren't aware of how to do this.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119089139#Comment_119089139

They sound like they are stuck in the 1970s.

Flinty997

Its kind of a look at me I don't know what I'm doing.

Sunny Disposition

Remote work definitely opens up new possibilities for sure. I've recruited two people from Enniskillen for jobs that they'd have had to commute to Belfast for a couple of years ago. It's great for them and great for us, we can fill jobs more easily and they have a job that they'd have had to move for one time.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119089127#Comment_119089127

It seems to be a recurring theme, any discussion or view point about wfh, you have the answer. It’s great to know that tech workers can find accommodation that no one else seems to be able to. Why do they need to come to Ireland though if companies are transitioning to wfh, couldn’t they stay in their home country and wfh?

Flinty997

They aren't my answers. That's just what's happening.

https://www.independent.ie/business/technology/haves-and-have-nots-how-the-tech-jobs-boom-is-steadily-turning-dublin-into-a-two-tier-town-41556597.html

In some cases you have to stay with EU for data protection laws, access to EU markets, or some Govt want it done in country. Wasn't trump trying to drive tech back into the US. Lots of reasons.

Flinty997

Not that WFH works for everyone. Only some people. So it has its limits obviously.

I know people who's job went 100% WFH and they quit to find a Job thats not WFH. To each their own.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119089405#Comment_119089405

WFH doesn't mean "Work from multiple time-zones and thousands of miles away" , that's an entirely different thing.

More people WFH is not in anyway a portent of Jobs getting off-shored - They are not related at all.

I've been fully remote for well over a decade and the expectation for me is that I am "available to come to the office as required".

That doesn't mean "Get here in 30 minutes" , but more of "can you come in next Tuesday for a F2F?" or whatever.

Now , I've never actually been asked specifically to come to the office in all that time , I choose to come in as I feel appropriate, which Pre-Covid might have been about 10-15 days a year. A few single days here and there along with a couple blocks of days for things like workshops or training and the like.