Coronavirus in Limerick City

topper75

They've sacked the chairperson of Shannondoc.

They are pretty brutal if you step outside the narrative. No toleration of appeals to common sense:

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/579147/limerick-doctor-removed-from-role-as-chair-of-shannondoc-after-covid-rally-speech.html

Not the right kind of doctor. Only a doctor. Not a 'health' expert.

Ha ha - if you live long enough, you get to see it all.

kilburn

He wasn't appealing to common sense and had no sense in his actions.

Part that concerns me most was against HSE guidance he treated people with certain drugs unacceptable to do that and rightly removed.

topper75

If he wasn't appealing to common sense - what did he say that was inaccurate in that article? All his numbers check out. I think the 84 years old thing is particularly galling - given that we live in a country with an average life expectancy of 82.

A doctor's role is to heal people as they see fit. Not to blindly follow something the HSE recommend. If it were merely that - I or any other Joe Soap could become a doctor and no 7 years study required.

kilburn

HSE are a disaster but I would rather go to a GP who toes the line but that's just me.

Does not matter one bit what the median age is, every life is valuable and worth saving regardless of their age.

Cookiemunster

topper75 wrote: »

If he wasn't appealing to common sense - what did he say that was inaccurate in that article? All his numbers check out. I think the 84 years old thing is particularly galling - given that we live in a country with an average life expectancy of 82.

A doctor's role is to heal people as they see fit. Not to blindly follow something the HSE recommend. If it were merely that - I or any other Joe Soap could become a doctor and no 7 years study required.

He made some very good valid points that I wouldn't disagree with, but he then veered into the conspiracy theory side of things talking about government control and there already being herd immunity.

He did also admit breaking HSE guidelines with his treatments for patients. That's more than likely the reason he sacked.

breezy1985

topper75 wrote: »

If he wasn't appealing to common sense - what did he say that was inaccurate in that article? All his numbers check out. I think the 84 years old thing is particularly galling - given that we live in a country with an average life expectancy of 82.

A doctor's role is to heal people as they see fit. Not to blindly follow something the HSE recommend. If it were merely that - I or any other Joe Soap could become a doctor and no 7 years study required.

"As they see fit" No that's not how it works at all it is completely about following accepted science. What if you went in with a cold and he told you to say a few hail Marys

topper75

kilburn wrote: »

Does not matter one bit what the median age is, every life is valuable and worth saving regardless of their age.

I think this viewpoint leans towards emotion and away from the rational.

Consider all the winters you have lived through where the flu ravaged the vulnerable in our hospitals. Following your principle we should have locked down every winter and by not doing so we have blood on our hands as a society.

Of course in practical terms we don't work it like that. We work out QALYs and we try to make balanced decisions, accepting some inevitable sacrifices. The right of the elderly and vulnerable is balanced against society's right to live and function. Economic considerations are taken into account.

Last Spring, on a progressive basis around the world, that rational balance was abandoned. It appears to be a mass psychosis. I have no other explanation.

snowcat

iguana wrote: »

We never attempted that. Maybe you weren't aware of exactly what NPHET were telling us we were doing but the simple catchphrase, "Flatten the Curve" was everywhere, so it's really on you if you erroneously think that's what we were doing.

Well what were we doing then? The curve was well and truly flattened by 1st May. We had near zero covid by the 31st July. The problem is unless you go the NZ route which we cant it will come back as we have learned. The NZ lockdown has plunged them in to the worst recession in their history. The cost has been calculated at 8million per year of life saved. Yes every life is precious but no other disease has had the resorces thrown at it that Covid has.

kilburn

topper75 wrote:

I think this viewpoint leans towards emotion and away from the rational.

topper75 wrote:

Consider all the winters you have lived through where the flu ravaged the vulnerable in our hospitals. Following your principle we should have locked down every winter and by not doing so we have blood on our hands as a society.

There really is a fundamental flaw in your argument it's not a flu it's a viral pnuemonia why do people keep comparing to the flu it's ridiculous to hear this nonsense 10 months into this pandemic.

topper75

Cookiemunster wrote: »

He made some very good valid points that I wouldn't disagree with, but he then veered into the conspiracy theory side of things talking about government control and there already being herd immunity.

He did also admit breaking HSE guidelines with his treatments for patients. That's more than likely the reason he sacked.

I can't defend the herd immunity claim because I don't understand it. It is still a vague concept to me in numbers terms sadly.

breezy1985 wrote: »

"As they see fit" No that's not how it works at all it is completely about following accepted science. What if you went in with a cold and he told you to say a few hail Marys

I'd be within my rights then as patient to challenge the rationality of that prescription. A doctor who can reason it out has nothing to fear. He is bound by oath to 'do no harm' of course. A doctor surely has to be more than a guideline follower - or do you believe their job to be replaceable by an algorithm or app?

topper75

snowcat wrote: »

Well what were we doing then? The curve was well and truly flattened by 1st May. We had near zero covid by the 31st July. The problem is unless you go the NZ route which we cant it will come back as we have learned. The NZ lockdown has plunged them in to the worst recession in their history. The cost has been calculated at 8million per year of life saved. Yes every life is precious but no other disease has had the resorces thrown at it that Covid has.

In health economics terms that is absolutely off the rocking chair!!!

8 million per year of life - might not even be a QALY!!! - can you get me a source on that please?

kilburn wrote: »

There really is a fundamental flaw in your argument it's not a flu it's a viral pnuemonia why do people keep comparing to the flu it's ridiculous to hear this nonsense 10 months into this pandemic.

The flu is analagous here by nature of its spread. Both viral transmission. I think my argument/question stands to all those in favour of lockdown 2020 especially those who would claim that all lives must be saved at all costs - why didn't we shut down back then, winter after winter, to 'save lives'? What is different in 2020?

kilburn

topper75 wrote:

The flu is analagous here by nature of its spread. Both viral transmission. I think my argument/question stands to all those in favour of lockdown 2020 especially those who would claim that all lives must be saved at all costs - why didn't we shut down back then, winter after winter, to 'save lives'? What is different in 2020?

I never said we should shut down then or even now. I firmly believe with common sense we can get through this but the problem here is Irish people we won't follow the rules and have lost all empthathy and compassion for anyone outside our immediate family circle or bubble.

I have said from the start and will say again Face masks should be compulsory across the country if you leave your house you wear a mask and of, daily life goes on for everyone just wear the damn mask.

Singapore and Japan have excellent scanning equipment in place at entrances to shops, offices and most buildings funded by the state. You walk up to the door it scans your temperature and face, no temperature and wearing a mask door opens. Shop keepers then don't have to enforce it.

I also cannot understand why we are not fining repeat offenders who just will not mask up and stop throwing parties, dock it from the dope or pup or get revenue to collect it.

yop

mod note. Closing this after it's managed to go off onto the same tangent again and again.
Will talk to the other mods to see if it's reopened for the 2nd time. Sorry to those who use this thread for Limerick covid related discussion.

MarkR

This thread seems to have started off fine, and then descended into a back and forth. I would like the Limerick form to have a place to discuss Covid issues specific to Limerick. National Covid issues should be discussed in the main Covid forum.

In regard to the interaction between the posters, I've seen people being likened to children, and outright name calling. That is not allowed here, and you all know it. If you disagree with a post, do it without name calling.

There was a lot of stuff about a cycle lane for some reason. I know it was changed during the "Covid Period", but it's not about Covid in Limerick. Make a new thread if you want to talk about cycling in Limerick.

If you find yourself in a back and forth with another poster, do us all a favour, and take it to personal messages.

I'm going to leave this closed for the day so everyone can put some distance on this.

Please message me if you have any questions.

Mark

MarkR

I've reopened the thread. Please try to keep this an informative resource. I want to keep this thread specific to Limerick Covid related issues. National issues can go in the main Covid forum.

sioda

Is there anywhere to see the daily Limerick figures as we have dropped off the news report on rte, which in itself is a good thing.

breezy1985

sioda wrote: »

Is there anywhere to see the daily Limerick figures as we have dropped off the news report on rte, which in itself is a good thing.

The official HSE covid site has the full breakdown by county daily

Miike

Sorry everyone for playing a role in getting this thread locked. Feel like a bit of an àrse considering it's a great resource.

sioda wrote: »

Is there anywhere to see the daily Limerick figures as we have dropped off the news report on rte, which in itself is a good thing.

I hate how the news just says "200 whatever cases across however many counties" even the DoH briefing online is the same. I think well just have to wait for the LEA map to be updated. On the DOH website I find the figures in the chart of like Limerick +2 (etc) to be really inconsistent?

breezy1985

breezy1985 wrote: »

The official HSE covid site has the full breakdown by county daily

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/f5a92-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-thursday-8-october/

MarkR

Here are the latest COVID-19 14-day Incidence Rate per 100,000 Population by Local Electoral Area (LEA). Seems to be going in the wrong direction.

https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/

Berty

Just remember that the HSE have been also setting new records in Testing per day, yesterday alone was 19,500 in one day which would mean that multiplied by 7 that would be 136,500 tests per week that could potentially be carried out.

Remember, test more find more. People should not be afraid of the daily number(as we test more), we never have and will never know the true number of people out there, especially asymptomatic people. So many could have it right now, you reading this or even myself and you feel just fine but you don't need a test, won't get referred for one but could be out there in public passing it around. We really need to start seeing x % of people are positive or something like 98.8% of todays tests were negative.

I also was surprised this morning with one shop and it's customers. Petrol station shop, at one stage had 5 customers in the shop and only 2 of them wearing masks. Staff member asked one man if he had a mask, he said "I'm just paying for petrol, I'll be gone in a second". My point is: Personal responsibility is important, don't wait for a staff member who is half your age to ask somebody supposedly mature can they just wear a piece of cloth over their face.

stefanovich

Berty wrote: »

Just remember that the HSE have been also setting new records in Testing per day, yesterday alone was 19,500 in one day which would mean that multiplied by 7 that would be 136,500 tests per week that could potentially be carried out.

Remember, test more find more. People should not be afraid of the daily number(as we test more), we never have and will never know the true number of people out there, especially asymptomatic people. So many could have it right now, you reading this or even myself and you feel just fine but you don't need a test, won't get referred for one but could be out there in public passing it around. We really need to start seeing x % of people are positive or something like 98.8% of todays tests were negative.

I also was surprised this morning with one shop and it's customers. Petrol station shop, at one stage had 5 customers in the shop and only 2 of them wearing masks. Staff member asked one man if he had a mask, he said "I'm just paying for petrol, I'll be gone in a second". My point is: Personal responsibility is important, don't wait for a staff member who is half your age to ask somebody supposedly mature can they just wear a piece of cloth over their face.

Find more, test more... Do you not think the increasing in testing is due to a larger number of people being identified as close contacts or presenting with symptoms?

un5byh7sqpd2x0

Exactly, we’re not testing more for the fun of it. We’re testing more because there’s more cases and thus more close contacts to be tested.

Berty

My point is we're testing more but presenting increased daily figures but not also informing people(media mostly) that testing has increased significantly. Many see the daily increased figures meaning more people have it, rather the results are showing that we are finding more of the cases so I think a % would be a better figure because the way testing increases/decreases it might be easier to say we have a negative rate of % compared to yesterday/last week/last month giving us better trending reports.

It's also few and far between when they tell us the no shows at the testing centres as well. Back in September the LL ran a story about over 119 no shows at the Gaelic Grounds, can't open the old story as I'm not paying them 99c for an hours access to the story.

breezy1985

Berty wrote: »

Just remember that the HSE have been also setting new records in Testing per day, yesterday alone was 19,500 in one day which would mean that multiplied by 7 that would be 136,500 tests per week that could potentially be carried out.

Remember, test more find more. People should not be afraid of the daily number(as we test more), we never have and will never know the true number of people out there, especially asymptomatic people. So many could have it right now, you reading this or even myself and you feel just fine but you don't need a test, won't get referred for one but could be out there in public passing it around. We really need to start seeing x % of people are positive or something like 98.8% of todays tests were negative.

I also was surprised this morning with one shop and it's customers. Petrol station shop, at one stage had 5 customers in the shop and only 2 of them wearing masks. Staff member asked one man if he had a mask, he said "I'm just paying for petrol, I'll be gone in a second". My point is: Personal responsibility is important, don't wait for a staff member who is half your age to ask somebody supposedly mature can they just wear a piece of cloth over their face.

Far too many people seem to think they are too hard or cool to wear a mask in town. And I'm not talking about kids I'm talking people of 30 and above. You see them on the bus putting it on for the driver and then taking it off at the seat with a grin like a bold child that's just tricked the teacher

kilburn

Moses Raspy Safari wrote:

Exactly, we’re not testing more for the fun of it. We’re testing more because there’s more cases and thus more close contacts to be tested.

Plus one on this but the 48hr limit is not ideal as I am aware of a case in Limerick where someone tested positive, contact tracers took details for last 48hrs but someone they were a contact with 72hrs before contracted covid.

This person has broken ribs and is housebound and had no other contacts with the outside world, so maybe if another 24hrs were added we would get a higher positivity rating.

Sadly numbers increasing slowly in the city and county hopefully school extra closure at midterm might slow things down.

Serious amount of work going on in the City and County with the HSE adding more capacity and beds.

iguana

stefanovich wrote: »

Find more, test more... Do you not think the increasing in testing is due to a larger number of people being identified as close contacts or presenting with symptoms?

Our positivity rate is increasing, so no, test more - find more is not the only reason for our figures increasing. There is massively increasing amounts of virus in the community.

banie01

iguana wrote: »

Our positivity rate is increasing, so no, test more - find more is not the only reason for our figures increasing. There is massively increasing amounts of virus in the community.

Was just coming to post this. The positivity rate is an incredibly important indicator. That it is rising, isn't really contingent upon mass testing but rather that the virus is becoming far more widespread.

The chains of transmission need to be broken, currently the positivity rate has risen to 4%.

jonski

Delighted to see the thread open again as it can play an important part in informing the local community .

I'm back with more details on my daughters case .

Sometime between Wed 30th Sept and Tue 6th Oct someone was identified as Covid Positive, my daughter was then identified as a close contact .

So Tue 6th Oct at 9:30 am she received a phone call from contact tracing to inform her of this and to tell her she would be contacted shortly with an appointment for a test . She was also told that there was no reason to be worried that she was living in a house with her parents and sister but that she should isolate . Heard no more Tuesday or Wednesday,so she phoned back end of day Wednesday and was told that she would have to wait until the following day before she could have the case escalated . She phoned back Thursday morning and was told it would be escalated and she would hear back from them shortly . She got a phone call this morning to say that her case had been escalated and that she would get an appointment ......... in the next 24 to 48 hours !


Now I'm one of those people that think the rules apply to all of us and not just when they suit us so we as a family have been sticking to the house and not allowing anyone over so I'm not really worried about us spreading it but I didn't think it would take this long to find out if she was positive or negative .

kilburn

jonski wrote:

Now I'm one of those people that think the rules apply to all of us and not just when they suit us so we as a family have been sticking to the house and not allowing anyone over so I'm not really worried about us spreading it but I didn't think it would take this long to find out if she was positive or negative .

If you have a reasonable GP contact them and explain the situation they can put you forward for a test cutting out the contact tracing department who unfortunately are overwhelmed at the minute.