Dublin GAA Discussion Thread: Capital Gains

gormdubhgorm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

It’s not black and white but that’s why everyone should pay tribute to their own. Do you think the British are commemorating the many people they killed here? They are in their holes.
The GAA have no obligation to commemorate the British, nor should they have. They can do that themselves. The worst of these commemorations is that it drags all this “look how enlightened I am” rubbish out of the woodwork.

You only have to look at position the GAA was placed in the hunger strikes during the 1980's

https://www.the42.ie/gaa-1981-hunger-strike-3469080-Jun2017/

Difficult situation, fair enough.

Yet...

Today, would the GAA properly commemorate a GAA member and serving Garda, who was shot by the IRA?

To paraphrase you, they would in thier holes!

--

It is nothing to do with 'look how enlightened I am' more opening your eyes to contradictions and complexities.

Chalk McHugh

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

To be honest I am a bit mixed about this tribute. Grand people are being remembered but it seems through a very narrow prism.

There were mentions of the anniversary of Kevin Barry's death recently on the news. Only mentioned in passing that the British soldier he shot was a few years younger than him. No mention of the soldiers name Private Harold Washington.

It is almost like the Hill 16 chant - 'Hill 16 for Dublin only!'
Except now it is "Irish history retold by one side only"!

I bet many still believe the myth (which is not true) that Hill 16 was built from the rubble of 1916.
And people know little of it's previous name Hill 60 (from a WWI battle in Gallipoli Turkey) and how it was only renamed Hill 16 sometime in the 30's!

All the 'Bloody Sunday' talk makes me uneasy. Renaming of Russell Street Bridge/Clonliffe Bridge to "Bloody Sunday Bridge" recently seems a bit macabre.

https://dublinpeople.com/news/northsideeast/articles/2020/11/12/32521/

Hardly a nice catchy name is it?

To me there is an air of 'dining out' on past atrocities. And only if they suit a particular viewpoint or idea. Seems very wrong to me on a lot of levels.

Having the Tipperary or Dublin 1920's jersey's is a nice idea in some ways.
But in others it seems a bit off 'dining out' in the macabre as I said.

Plus when you remember that the Hogan stand was renamed after a Tipp player - it is clear that there is no fear of Bloody Sunday being forgotten.

However, it is also clear that the view of history can be one sided even by a supposed apolitical organisation like the GAA. With clubs named after fallen rebels and so on.

In my view far nicer touch than renaming the Canal End the Davin End in 2006, would have been to name it after any Garda killed by the IRA.

For example, someone like Garda Gary Sheehan. He was shot in 1983 during a hostage rescue attempt, by the provisional IRA. He was a member of Carrick Emmets CLG in Monaghan.

It would show that the GAA is not from a completely one sided political viewpoint, when it comes to celebration of the GAA community who were tragically murdered.

However, I feel that that the Ulster Council would make damn sure it would never happen?

Interesting. Some fair points. Have to say i don't really like the new name 'Bloody Sunday Bridge'. Clonliffe Bridge was fine the way it was.

Billy Mays

Saw on Facebook there some Irish sports company hawking a Bloody Sunday commemorative Dublin jersey (obligatory Hill 16 on the back) with the names of the victims enscribed on it. A well known Dublin FB fan page is giving one away for the usual like and share nonsense

That sort of thing doesn't sit well with me. Someone basically trying to profit off a dark day in the country's history with a piece of tacky tat

gormdubhgorm

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Interesting. Some fair points. Have to say i don't really like the new name 'Bloody Sunday Bridge'. Clonliffe Bridge was fine the way it was.

Fecking terrible name for a bridge. I don't think it could be worse. Yet it was passed because I assume of the anniversary and so on.


Even November 1920 would have been better. Imagine people on phone after a teams loss.

"Yeah where are ya? Clonliffe house? I am passing Bloody Sunday Bridge.
It should be called Bleeding Sunday bridge after today's performance."

gormdubhgorm

Billy Mays wrote: »

Saw on Facebook there some Irish sports company hawking a Bloody Sunday commemorative Dublin jersey (obligatory Hill 16 on the back) with the names of the victims enscribed on it. A well known Dublin FB fan page is giving one away for the usual like and share nonsense

That sort of thing doesn't sit well with me. Someone basically trying to profit off a dark day in the country's history with a piece of tacky tat

Exactly! That type of thing ends up happening. Quickly turns from a commemoration to a cheap branding exercise, with zero tact.

Bonniedog

The GAA was certainly not a non political organisation in 1920, and the Constitution still reflects the aspirations on which it was founded. The events of November 21 1920 are inextricably linked to the history of the country and the GAA. the Tans and Auxies didnt roll up to Lansdowne Road or Dalymount.

Maybe they should call the Bridge after Micheal Barnier or Goldman Sachs or Brian Cowen or Eamon Ryan or someone else who benefitted from the bailout "whose anniversary also occurs around this time"?

Seems like every runner in here now is allowed have their history month except the natives!

As for people cashing in on stuff, would be rather ironic if there is not commemorative jersey worn by the team becasue some massive international insurance corporation decides not to surrender a miniscule amount of TV time.

Dyr

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

To be honest I am a bit mixed about this tribute. Grand people are being remembered but it seems through a very narrow prism.

Ah yes, the narrow prism that believes that brits murdering civilians at a football match shouldnt be swept under the carpet because it makes a few shoneens feel uncomfortable

gormdubhgorm

Bambi wrote: »

Ah yes, the narrow prism that believes that brits murdering civilians at a football match shouldnt be swept under the carpet because it makes a few shoneens feel uncomfortable

OK so do you not see how it can become tacky as another poster suggested?
A piggy backing on misery and cheapening of the memories of those who perished?

Not only that the full picture of the event is very complex, instead of the limited narrative many like to parrot.

Much like the Dublin 1916 Jerseys which proclaimed 'The city that fought an empire'. Which of course is false on many levels!

There is a good book on Bloody Sunday 1920 which covers all sides perspectives, and the event itself in detail.

THE BLOODIED FIELD - Croke Park. Sunday 21 November 1920
By Michael Foley

https://www.obrien.ie/the-bloodied-field

I suggest you read it if you have not already, superbly written and researched.

--
--

I feel people should be careful not to let themselves be manipulated in the midst of tackiness or sentimentally. And look at all the facts themselves.

Looks like it’s the regular sponsored one with the 14 on the sleeves rather than an old version like Tipp.


https://twitter.com/dubgaaofficial/status/1329166052597567493

Slipperydodger

Great video done with Cian O’Sullivan to get you into the mood for the Leinster Final. He seems like such a nice guy! https://youtu.be/4FGG8mZOxTk

BonnieSituation

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

To be honest I am a bit mixed about this tribute. Grand people are being remembered but it seems through a very narrow prism.

There were mentions of the anniversary of Kevin Barry's death recently on the news. Only mentioned in passing that the British soldier he shot was a few years younger than him. No mention of the soldiers name Private Harold Washington.

It is almost like the Hill 16 chant - 'Hill 16 for Dublin only!'
Except now it is "Irish history retold by one side only"!

I bet many still believe the myth (which is not true) that Hill 16 was built from the rubble of 1916.
And people know little of it's previous name Hill 60 (from a WWI battle in Gallipoli Turkey) and how it was only renamed Hill 16 sometime in the 30's!

All the 'Bloody Sunday' talk makes me uneasy. Renaming of Russell Street Bridge/Clonliffe Bridge to "Bloody Sunday Bridge" recently seems a bit macabre.

https://dublinpeople.com/news/northsideeast/articles/2020/11/12/32521/

Hardly a nice catchy name is it?

To me there is an air of 'dining out' on past atrocities. And only if they suit a particular viewpoint or idea. Seems very wrong to me on a lot of levels.

Having the Tipperary or Dublin 1920's jersey's is a nice idea in some ways.
But in others it seems a bit off 'dining out' in the macabre as I said.

Plus when you remember that the Hogan stand was renamed after a Tipp player - it is clear that there is no fear of Bloody Sunday being forgotten.

However, it is also clear that the view of history can be one sided even by a supposed apolitical organisation like the GAA. With clubs named after fallen rebels and so on.

In my view far nicer touch than renaming the Canal End the Davin End in 2006, would have been to name it after any Garda killed by the IRA.

For example, someone like Garda Gary Sheehan. He was shot in 1983 during a hostage rescue attempt, by the provisional IRA. He was a member of Carrick Emmets CLG in Monaghan.

It would show that the GAA is not from a completely one sided political viewpoint, when it comes to celebration of the GAA community who were tragically murdered.

However, I feel that that the Ulster Council would make damn sure it would never happen?

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

My point is no Garda shot by the IRA will ever be remembered by the GAA because they will toe the line for the Ulster Council. James Connolly was a British trained soldier (served in the Royal Scots Regiment) by the way and he is well remembered. He wasn't even born in Ireland!

History is not as black and white as people like to pretend. Personally I think it is about time the GAA had the balls to move beyond a blinkered narrative of the past. After all they are supposed to be apolitical. Or is it in name only?

Take this waffling shít to another thread where you can discuss your airy fairy notions.

I like discussing football with ya GDG. Please don't sully that with this nonsense in here as you have tried in other threads with the othering of Ulstermen and your other partitionist nonsense.

gormdubhgorm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Take this waffling shít to another thread where you can discuss your airy fairy notions.

I like discussing football with ya GDG. Please don't sully that with this nonsense in here as you have tried in other threads with the othering of Ulstermen and your other partitionist nonsense.

I said nothing at all about partition, but I am questioning how the GAA are using Bloody Sunday and how it is commemorated. And leaving open the opportunity of cheapening the deaths of those involved. As there are always people looking to make a quick euro based on the back of an 'event'. Plus I believe one political party in particular welcome it as a chance to win more 'hearts and minds'.

I prefer to step back away from the sensationalism and sentimentality. And look at the complete picture and facts where I can. As I have already said the Bloodied Field by Michael Foley is an excellent book on the event itself. Both before and after plus lists all those involved in great detail.

seligehgit

Mod Note

I am very mindful of the importance to very many posters of a fulsome discussion of the commemoration of Bloody Sunday.An important historical event with a political context.

Nonetheless let us not let this ultimately GAA thread become subsumed in discussion of partition and anti Ulster rhetoric.

vapor trails

Slipperydodger wrote: »

Great video done with Cian O’Sullivan to get you into the mood for the Leinster Final. He seems like such a nice guy!

https://youtu.be/4FGG8mZOxTk

That link is dead. Any chance of reposting again?

Slipperydodger

vapor trails wrote: »

That link is dead. Any chance of reposting again?

Does this work for you? https://youtu.be/4FGG8mZOxTk

gormdubhgorm

Slipperydodger wrote: »

Does this work for you? https://youtu.be/4FGG8mZOxTk

Yep it worked made it into full screen:

Cian O'Sullivan seems like future Dub manager in the making?

Tony Hanahoe 2.0?

gormdubhgorm

Was looking up Tony Hanahoe found this video.

He gave this talk on the history of coaching/playing Gaelic games - at the National Games Development Conference 2019.

He has fair few funny anecdotes mixed in.

I particularly like his description of Rural v City teams as
"Fish and Chips v Bacon and Cabbage"

gormdubhgorm

Looking forwards to todays match feels awful not going. Lovely day. Would have been great atmosphere under the floodlights.

I was thinking if I was a Meath supporter it would be go for goals. Would probably need three of them something like a 3-9. I know it was only Kildare and Wicklow - Meath played. But that is 12 goals in 2 games now. And their young lads look pacey and full of confidence.
O'Rourke mischievously pointed out the last time Meath scored 5 goals in a Leinster game was against the Dubs in the 2010 Leinster Semi-Final!

Meath would have to keep Dublin to one goal if they have any chance of winning as well as getting the three goals. I figure if Dublin play it cagey and let Meath run out of steam could be the way to go. Blitz them later on then.

I know it is unlikely Dublin will lose, but there is a seed of doubt in my mind. A possibility of a loss, confident opponents are always dangerous.

rolling boh

Would be confident of the win but the hammerings of recent may be at an end Meath will be confident feeling they have a chance and should stay well in the game for longer than many might think .Cannot really see where we are at yet feel we really need to up our game big time from now so hopefully a decent showing and another Leinster title .

Chalk McHugh

Great day's GAA so far. And now the big one to look forward to..I am expecting a fairly tough game tonight. How can we not expect to win though after all our success? It's a very comforting place to be going into battle with these lads representing us.

Chalk McHugh

Interesting the addresses of some of the Dublin men murdered

Little Britain St
Fitzroy Aven
Blessington St
Buckingham St
Gardiner St

Lots of Dubs fans from the North Inner City back in 1920. Very sad but a beautiful ceremony to those who lost their lives.

Fann Linn

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Interesting the addresses of some of the Dublin men murdered

Little Britain St
Fitzroy Aven
Blessington St
Buckingham St
Gardiner St

Lots of Dubs fans from the North Inner City back in 1920. Very sad but a beautiful ceremony to those who lost their lives.

Still the same Chalkie.

Chalk McHugh

Fann Linn wrote: »

Still the same Chalkie.

Oh i know that but and i love the area myself. Been drinking in there for close to 20 years. Was just surprising a lot of the addresses were in a close geographical area of the capital.

gormdubhgorm

Pat did not mention Murchan's goal v Kerry was steps. He must be a Dub at heart after all!

Chalk McHugh

The 26 year old Tipp lad who died in the stampede ran a pub on Green St. A lot of Tipp and Cavan men ran pubs in the capital.

Chalk McHugh

Some breakaway goal that. Speed, snappy passing and tidy finish. Deano! Deano!

Chalk McHugh

Dubs out of the blocks fast tonight. Well on top early doors. Playing well.

gormdubhgorm

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Some breakaway goal that. Speed, snappy passing and tidy finish. Deano! Deano!

Looks like game over already as a contest after 15 mins very impressive. I thought it might have taken a bit longer.

Chalk McHugh

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Looks like game over already as a contest after 15 mins very impressive. I thought it might have taken a bit longer.

What about those comebacks that Meath haunted us with back in the 80s and 90s? Nah, i think you could be right

Chalk McHugh

Fantastic football. Two class points by Kilkenny and Con. Meath look miles off the pace.