Will you travel? [Mod Note in Post #1 - Travel Discussion Only! Megathread]

Tazz T

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

My bad I should have said the state is wrong and we should throw away our emigration laws . Is that better?

No but you shouldn't have used them for legitimizing your anti-travel agenda

TobyHolmes

Deleted User wrote: »

We don't need residency for her right now. We need a type c visa for her so that the spouse of an Irish person and the mother of two Irish boys can accompany her family to Ireland for a short stay if we have an emergency.

You say the point about the American is irrelevant. It isn't. How can it be right that such a person can waltz into Ireland at any time despite having no living connection to the country yet a mother / spouse of Irish citizens cannot?

sorry to hear this - it must be frustrating.


Can she not enter as a tourist and state her essential purpose?


You should get some legal advise. If the 2 kids and urself are all irish citizens surely there will be someway to accommodate her.


I think get professional advise and they will find a way forward for you. The Irish constitution is very family orientated and about keeping the family together. It will work out!

Plumbthedepths

Tazz T wrote: »

No but you shouldn't have used them for legitimizing your anti-travel agenda

Anti travel? Dude I can't wait to get on a plane.

Red Silurian

Acosta wrote: »

We do have a open border with the UK. Considering the small numbers that have been travelling into this country, it could easily have come into the North on an internal flight or ferry and then spread by people who cross the border for work.

So you're saying travel is the reason it came across the Irish sea then?

smurfjed wrote: »

LOL, not fake, but they could have done the average statistics in a more realistic manner, such as breaking the figures down into quarters of the year.

So back to my original question that you very conveniently avoided - what airline?

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

that is harsh, but you can come, while your wife is waiting a week or so for a visa.
my friends husband is Australian, he got a phone call to say his father was dying of cancer. The Australian authorities told him even if he could get a flight (slim chance) He would still have to mandatory quaratine in a hotel, so he wouldn't have made it in time.
Its the way of the world at the mo i'm afraid, it is really hard for families.

Thank you. I know, I feel bad about raising this when some people can't even visit a dying loved one. It's not the most pressing matter. But it would be such a simple thing to fix. I feel like guidance was issued from on high to cease issuing type c visas (to stop frivolous visitors), and now the guidance is being applied lower down with all the delicacy of a sledgehammer in circumstances where it's not appropriate.

TobyHolmes wrote: »

sorry to hear this - it must be frustrating.


Can she not enter as a tourist and state her essential purpose?


You should get some legal advise. If the 2 kids and urself are all irish citizens surely there will be someway to accommodate her.


I think get professional advise and they will find a way forward for you. The Irish constitution is very family orientated and about keeping the family together. It will work out!

I am tempted. This is an anti-family policy and as you said, the Irish constitution is so pro family and pro motherhood that it astonishes me.

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

I think this is outrageous.

While I think everyone can sympathise, you're not talking about a regular situation. We're in the middle of pandemic, meaning that blunt emergency measures have to be taken, such as the pausing of holiday visas.

Unfortunately blunt measures result in outliers being unfairly disadvantaged. And you are one of those outliers.

It would be unreasonable for you to expect that emergency travel restrictions could be put in place that inconvenience nobody or that include special clauses for every nuance.

This is a sh1t time, which requires sh1t decisions that have sh1tty consequences. The best thing you can do is plan for the options that are available to you rather than languish and rage over the ones that aren't.

Such as planning that in the event of a need to travel, you come to Ireland with your two boys while your wife tries to get an emergency visa.

Donald Trump

It's a tough situation Tomalek. A lot of countries have similar criteria before granting citizenship (which you aren't looking for....you are only looking for a visa). There might be some appeals process or emergency process foe Ireland if you are stuck in a situation where you have to move and need to return. Someone else might know where to contact.

It might seem patronising but the poster was only giving you advice. I know it is of no immediate help to you now but it is something to be aware of. I personally know of at least 2 people who stayed somewhere after getting married just so they could get foreign citizenship before moving. In both cases, they were moving back to their home country and bringing their (foreign citizen) spouse with them. The waiting for citizenship first was agreed so that they could move back easily afterwards (obviously the spouse could just go back whenever as they were from there). It is of no help to your current situation, but nonetheless something to factor in to future planning.

On the birthright citizenship, your example is hypothetically possible, but not as simple today as it changed about 20 or 25 years ago and after that date, the line has to be unbroken at time of birth - the new baby can't get the citizenship unless the parent had also claimed it before the baby was born.

If you have further children when you are abroad, that child is automatically entitled to Irish citizenship. And their child, your grandchild, could also be. I know that if I had kids abroad and they stayed there that I'd want my grandchildren to be potentially eligible for Irish citizenship. It doesn't have to be that long to go from you emigrating to having that grandchild. 25 years after leaving you could be sitting somewhere with your new grandchild (from your foreign born child) and be happy that baby can get Irish citizenship. It won't seem like a long connection. But if in 100 years, someone sees that then 75 year grandchild come to Dublin, they might think it's a tenuous connection. But it's not really. The connection is measured from the start of life - not the end of life

seamus

seamus wrote: »

While I think everyone can sympathise, you're not talking about a regular situation. We're in the middle of pandemic, meaning that blunt emergency measures have to be taken, such as the pausing of holiday visas.

Unfortunately blunt measures result in outliers being unfairly disadvantaged. And you are one of those outliers.

It would be unreasonable for you to expect that emergency travel restrictions could be put in place that inconvenience nobody or that include special clauses for every nuance.

This is a sh1t time, which requires sh1t decisions that have sh1tty consequences. The best thing you can do is plan for the options that are available to you rather than languish and rage over the ones that aren't.

Such as planning that in the event of a need to travel, you come to Ireland with your two boys while your wife tries to get an emergency visa.

I'm not against emergency measures necessarily. I think once a person identifies themselves as an outlier and proactively contacts the visa office, and explains the circumstance, it's not a heavy lift for the visa office to process the exception. It's not like the visa office is mothballed. It's still there. And actually, they would probably end up processing the visa, just two weeks too late for a real emergency. I do take your point though and have considered it myself.

Acosta

colmtheperson wrote: »

So you're saying travel is the reason it came across the Irish sea then?

Just making the point that even after you have the Guards fining people going to and from airport's, make it mandatory to quarantine either at home or in a hotel, have the likes of RTE trying to shame a handful of people returning from Lanzarote, basically shut down aviation south of the border, you will still have loads of people every day flying into Belfast and Derry going home, meeting with others, plenty of which will travel over the border to work. Varadkar basically made the same point on TV the other night.

Donald Trump

Acosta wrote: »

Just making the point that even after you have the Guards fining people going to and from airport's, make it mandatory to quarantine either at home or in a hotel, have the likes of RTE trying to shame a handful of people returning from Lanzarote, basically shut down aviation south of the border, you will still have loads of people every day flying into Belfast and Derry going home, meeting with others, plenty of which will travel over the border to work. Varadkar basically made the same point on TV the other night.

So, simple question for you. Could you envision any scenario under which you would be happy if the numbers of people travelling to and from Lanzarote to Ireland this week was equal to the numbers that travelled in the corresponding week in 2020?

greenmaan

How is the situation at the airport now? Is anyone checking the reason for travel and demanding any proof?

bladespin

Donald Trump wrote: »

So, simple question for you. Could you envision any scenario under which you would be happy if the numbers of people travelling to and from Lanzarote to Ireland this week was equal to the numbers that travelled in the corresponding week in 2020?

Just as valid a question would be would you be happy if the numbers of people travelling to and from the UK (including NI) to Ireland this week was equal to the numbers that travelled in the corresponding week in 2020?

mel123

In light of all the new restrictions, airlines are still not issuing refunds or even travel vouchers. There is people who booked mid term break and easter holidays last year never even imagining they would be in that situation now. I dont blame them for going rather than losing out on thousands.

Donald Trump

bladespin wrote: »

Just as valid a question would be would you be happy if the numbers of people travelling to and from the UK (including NI) to Ireland this week was equal to the numbers that travelled in the corresponding week in 2020?

No. I don't want people travelling unnecessarily. Proper controls and deterrents need to be put in to stop people taking the piss.



I answered yours. You can now answer mine.

colmtheperson

colmtheperson wrote: »

Paschal Donohue on the radio this morning saying foreign travel amounts for just 0.5% of our case numbers, yet he expects the British variant to be the dominant one here in the coming weeks...

Did the British variant swim across the Irish sea?

No, but it might equally have been brought in by a haulier or an essential traveller who aren’t ‘travellers’ and won’t be part of many mandatory quarantine even if it were brought in.

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not against emergency measures necessarily. I think once a person identifies themselves as an outlier and proactively contacts the visa office, and explains the circumstance, it's not a heavy lift for the visa office to process the exception. It's not like the visa office is mothballed. It's still there. And actually, they would probably end up processing the visa, just two weeks too late for a real emergency. I do take your point though and have considered it myself.

I wonder could your wife apply for a multiple-entry short-stay visa on a priority basis.

This is where my ignorance of visas shows up, but if you can outline your circumstances and the possibility that short-notice travel might be required, then it might be possible for her to have a 90-day visa in her back pocket, in the hope that you never actually need to use it.

It would mean every 90 days you have a short gap while she applies for a new visa, but if successful it would mean that you guys can just drop everything and go if necessary.

dartboardio

mel123 wrote: »

In light of all the new restrictions, airlines are still not issuing refunds or even travel vouchers. There is people who booked mid term break and easter holidays last year never even imagining they would be in that situation now. I dont blame them for going rather than losing out on thousands.

It's the governments fault people are losing out on money, not the airlines IMO

It's the governments fault, for not having any rules in place, just advice.

So how can the airlines be expected to hand out refunds, for mere advice.. where as if the government had a clear actual BAN , not advice, for anyone looking to travel non essential, then I'm sure the airlines would be handing out refunds no problem.

Acosta

Donald Trump wrote: »

So, simple question for you. Could you envision any scenario under which you would be happy if the numbers of people travelling to and from Lanzarote to Ireland this week was equal to the numbers that travelled in the corresponding week in 2020?

I think making aviation the boogeyman if the border is staying open is some what pointless. The numbers travelling in and out are tiny. Besides Dublin, the other airports don't even one flight operating many days of the week. As far as aviation goes the summer season is dead in the water.

While I wouldn't travel myself at the moment, I don't really have an issue with people that have properties in places like Lanzarote choosing to isolate over there instead of here. However quarantine should be a lot more strict on your return. The fact that nearly a year into this,the quarantine rule has basically been an advisory measure and not something you must abide by under law is a joke.

faceman

Donald Trump wrote: »

So, simple question for you. Could you envision any scenario under which you would be happy if the numbers of people travelling to and from Lanzarote to Ireland this week was equal to the numbers that travelled in the corresponding week in 2020?

I think people need to drop the whole "Lanzarote" angle. In reality, tourism numbers are rock bottom there. According to local sources most people visiting are longer term visitors or have property there. Lanzarote also has curfew, social and hospitality restrictions. Their PCR requirement is strict, and has been in place for longer than most countries. Even people travelling from parts of Spain are subject to PCR testing. They have had detention centres for months (quarantine hotels) for people who dont have a test or fail a test

The case numbers are alot lower than Ireland too. Looking at the PT footage, most people seemed older generation, hardly the type to be socialising the same way younger generations might.

The spotlight should probably spin to holiday destinations where hospitality is open and case rates. Im not overly familiar with the M.E. anymore but it sounds like Dubai could be one of those places.

Im fairly confident, anecdotally of course, that short term tourism has ground to a halt across most of the EU. I suspect many of the travellers returning to Ireland this month probably left before there was a hint of a major crisis or in December when rules were lax.

Looking at my area in Spain, the beaches are empty and with hospitality and golf courses closed, I cant see anyone getting horny for a visit anytime soon. I suspect with the introduction of the dark red zone in the EU, Spain will probably curtail Irish holidaymakers if Ireland remains in the dark red category, as will most other countries.

smurfjed

colmtheperson wrote: »

So back to my original question that you very conveniently avoided - what airline?

haven’t found the information in the public domain, so sorry, cant name the airline.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

I wonder could your wife apply for a multiple-entry short-stay visa on a priority basis.

This is where my ignorance of visas shows up, but if you can outline your circumstances and the possibility that short-notice travel might be required, then it might be possible for her to have a 90-day visa in her back pocket, in the hope that you never actually need to use it.

It would mean every 90 days you have a short gap while she applies for a new visa, but if successful it would mean that you guys can just drop everything and go if necessary.

This is precisely what we have been declined. :-)

bladespin

Donald Trump wrote: »

No. I don't want people travelling unnecessarily. Proper controls and deterrents need to be put in to stop people taking the piss.



I answered yours. You can now answer mine.

I'd be a lot happier about the Lanzarote numbers than the UK's tbh - that said scapegoating travel while community spread is the main driver is just a diversionary tactic IMO.

If we're restricted then the restriction should apply to all, no waffle, if it doesn't then it shouldn't apply to us either, it's a bit disingenuous pointing out holiday makers when certain 'so called' essential travellers are being shipped in without restriction or test.

bladespin

Mr.S wrote: »

There's a checkpoint on approach to Terminal 2 and 1, where you'll be asked the reason for traveling, and where you've come from.

I would imagine people blatantly flaunting the restrictions will be fined. I guess it's more complicated when you say you are going for X essential reason, as not sure how you can prove that.

Not sure you have to - unless there's cause to believe otherwise.

RobitTV

It's pretty likely there won't be checkpoints at the airport when Level 5 comes to an end and lockdown is over. The more they remove the restrictions over the coming months, the more it's going to be harder to enforce anything. Once 5km comes to an end, then the game will change.

Level 5 restrictions have a lot of 'legal backing' - once you move down the levels, the legal side mostly turns into recommendations by the Gardai.

There could well be checkpoints for another while. But when Easter is over and has passed. I think its increasingly unlikely.

faceman

RobitTV wrote: »

It's pretty likely there won't be checkpoints at the airport when Level 5 comes to an end and lockdown is over. The more they remove the restrictions over the coming months, the more it's going to be harder to enforce anything. Once 5km comes to an end, then the game will change.

Level 5 restrictions have a lot of 'legal backing' - once you move down the levels, the legal side mostly turns into recommendations by the Gardai.

There could well be checkpoints for another while. But when Easter is over and has passed. I think its increasingly unlikely.

I’d say the checkpoints will continue for some time. Ireland will at best move to level 4 in March which is still a defacto lockdown. No reason to remove checkpoints. What will be more interesting is will they last beyond Easter

Incidentally Pascal Donohue said the government expects the new travel rules to have a big impact. Already the noise is deterrent enough so I imagine the focus will shift away soon enough

The Iceland model will probably be the model the government settles on. Everyone does 2 tests, one on arrival and one 5 days later with quarantine inbetween. Quarantine can be done at home but you register your accommodation. (You are allowed to exercise with their quarantine outdoors). The state covers the costs. It applies to all travellers

ToTheSea

Does anybody know what is actually considered travel?

I moved abroad for a new job a few months back, I know not the best time to make the move, but beggars can't be choosers when it come to job opportunities when none in my field were coming up in Ireland. Now I would like to come home for an appointment with my consultant who has been treating me for a reoccurring problem that is the result of a car accident 3 years ago.

I intend to get a test before leaving where I'm currently based and another test 5 days after I arrive in Ireland and following the rest of the guidelines. I'm not coming from Brazil or SA so won't have the hotel quarantine.

Does anyone know if this would be viewed as essential travel? I don't want to go booking anything to come home only to run into problems with I arrive at Dublin airport. I tried to contact the HSE to ask but got a very nonanswer to my question. Perhaps it is worth contacting the Irish embassy where I'm living?

Gael23

Is hoping to travel in September/October realistic?

dartboardio

ToTheSea wrote: »

Does anybody know what is actually considered travel?

I moved abroad for a new job a few months back, I know not the best time to make the move, but beggars can't be choosers when it come to job opportunities when none in my field were coming up in Ireland. Now I would like to come home for an appointment with my consultant who has been treating me for a reoccurring problem that is the result of a car accident 3 years ago.

I intend to get a test before leaving where I'm currently based and another test 5 days after I arrive in Ireland and following the rest of the guidelines. I'm not coming from Brazil or SA so won't have the hotel quarantine.

Does anyone know if this would be viewed as essential travel? I don't want to go booking anything to come home only to run into problems with I arrive at Dublin airport. I tried to contact the HSE to ask but got a very nonanswer to my question. Perhaps it is worth contacting the Irish embassy where I'm living?

Yes a medical visit/hospital appointment would be essential. They're letting people visit graves and class it as an essential purpose, so you'll be fine.

There's probably a low chance you'll even be stopped when you come to Dublin Airport and asked..

Gael23

ToTheSea wrote: »

Does anybody know what is actually considered travel?

I moved abroad for a new job a few months back, I know not the best time to make the move, but beggars can't be choosers when it come to job opportunities when none in my field were coming up in Ireland. Now I would like to come home for an appointment with my consultant who has been treating me for a reoccurring problem that is the result of a car accident 3 years ago.

I intend to get a test before leaving where I'm currently based and another test 5 days after I arrive in Ireland and following the rest of the guidelines. I'm not coming from Brazil or SA so won't have the hotel quarantine.

Does anyone know if this would be viewed as essential travel? I don't want to go booking anything to come home only to run into problems with I arrive at Dublin airport. I tried to contact the HSE to ask but got a very nonanswer to my question. Perhaps it is worth contacting the Irish embassy where I'm living?

If that’s not essential I don’t know what is

Micky 32

RobitTV wrote: »

It's pretty likely there won't be checkpoints at the airport when Level 5 comes to an end and lockdown is over. The more they remove the restrictions over the coming months, the more it's going to be harder to enforce anything. Once 5km comes to an end, then the game will change.

Level 5 restrictions have a lot of 'legal backing' - once you move down the levels, the legal side mostly turns into recommendations by the Gardai.

There could well be checkpoints for another while. But when Easter is over and has passed. I think its increasingly unlikely.

I believe that Mr Holohan has written a letter to the government saying he expects the reproduction number to start rising again in the next few weeks. I’m not sure where he’s getting that info from but if true level 5 is here to stay.