Importing from the UK - definitive guide (Q and A)

Lurching

Marcusm wrote: »

it would be EUR4,850, i.e. likely not economical.

Jasus. That's a shame.
They just love making complicated and ridiculous tax systems for vehicles here.

deezell

Lurching wrote: »

Jasus. That's a shame.
They just love making complicated and ridiculous tax systems for vehicles here.

Nox tax was heavily driven by the car industry to scupper private imports which was depressing the margins on used vehicle sales here. Note that if you buy a used high Nox vehicle with an Irish reg there is no Nox tax, so garages can sell the kind of cars taken as trade ins that are now uneconomical to import, and the lack of imports drive up used prices, meaning higher trade in offers, meaning more new car sales. A carefully orchestrated chain of press releases from SIMI about "dumping of Smoky UK cars" set the tone, and they got their wish...
With Covid, new car sales down 63%. Be careful what you wish for boys.

ustari

Hi all,

Hoping to buy something in the next couple of months when all this dies down.

Thinking along the following lines currently:

• BMW 5 series G31 touring M sport(2017)
• BMW X5 F15 M sport
• Volvo XC90
• VW Touareg

Hoping to get something 2015 onwards with 50k miles or less ideally, leather interior and decent spec hence M sport for the BMWs. Want it to have a decent boot for dog, rules out saloons.

Ideally a hybrid as it would most likely be the best value with the VRT. It is a real pity the G31 cannot be gotten in a hybrid in 2017 money like the saloon. For the X5 I wouldn't able to afford the diesel, would have to be the hybrid and that would be tight. The Touareg cost price in UK is relatively good value but the huge VRT negates that.

Are there any hybrids or low emission estates or SUVs that you can think of that would fall into the above that I might be missing?
Preferably mid size and above, so 5 series, a6, e Class etc. Not A4, C Class, 3 series.

Brands that I would like to stay within:
BMW
Audi
Mercedes
Volkswagen
Volvo

Budget would be 30000 euro landed and VRT paid tops, preferably closer to 25000.

L-M

deezell wrote: »

Nox tax was heavily driven by the car industry to scupper private imports which was depressing the margins on used vehicle sales here. Note that if you buy a used high Nox vehicle with an Irish reg there is no Nox tax, so garages can sell the kind of cars taken as trade ins that are now uneconomical to import, and the lack of imports drive up used prices, meaning higher trade in offers, meaning more new car sales. A carefully orchestrated chain of press releases from SIMI about "dumping of Smoky UK cars" set the tone, and they got their wish...
With Covid, new car sales down 63%. Be careful what you wish for boys.

The NOX tax in no way helps new car sales. The people who buy new cars are people who trade in 2016/17/18 cars (Can still be imported. PCPs are 3 years so people trading in 2017 upwards and rolling. Not people with 08/09/10. Maybe it’s actually a genuine thing to stop the UK dumping their high mileage, carcinogenic **** over here.

You’re argument is completely wrong.

Also, Just FYI PCP is a HP so not a lease and not owned by the garage and not vat qualifying.

deezell

L-M wrote: »

The NOX tax in no way helps new car sales. The people who buy new cars are people who trade in 2016/17/18 cars (Can still be imported. PCPs are 3 years so people trading in 2017 upwards and rolling. Not people with 08/09/10. Maybe it’s actually a genuine thing to stop the UK dumping their high mileage, carcinogenic **** over here.

You’re argument is completely wrong.

Also, Just FYI PCP is a HP so not a lease and not owned by the garage and not vat qualifying.

You jumped from 2016 -2018 cars to 2008-2010. The years in between are badly affected by Nox. These are years that are traded in here to buy the one owner ex new cars from 2016-2018. Dealer's have no problem selling on these cars, or older, free of Nox tax. What they don't like is the poor prices they get for this segment, and consequently the lower trade in prices they can offer to the owners from new used segment. Create a scarcity of any product and you can control the price, hence Nox charges. Why should the supply of 8-5 year old cars be limited to the indigenous hand me downs.

Your use of the term Dumping shows your complete lack of understanding of the free market. No one in the UK forces, coerces or otherwise incentivises anyone here to purchase these cars. They are bought because they are better value, better spec'ed, and maintained than the same year indigenous carcinogenic ***** being sold here.

Also, just FYI, a quote from the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, (CCCP.IE);
"The main difference between a PCP and a personal loan is that with a personal loan you borrow the money, pay for your car, and own it immediately. With a PCP you don’t own the car:" So if you don't pay the balloon payment end of year 3, car reverts to it's owners, the finance company/brand dealer/brand finance partner. If the PCP client was a business, the car qualifies as a business asset, it has only been partially sold, and its residual sale value contains the residual VAT, hence it can be claimed back on export.

L-M

Check how many main dealers stock 12/13 cars and come back to me.

Also PCP is the same as HP, you don’t own the car until you pay for it but the garage doesn’t own it either so it’s not VAT qualifying. You can google all you look but what I’m telling you is correct.

brimeh

ustari wrote: »

Hi all,

Hoping to buy something in the next couple of months when all this dies down.

Thinking along the following lines currently:

• BMW 5 series G31 touring M sport(2017)
• BMW X5 F15 M sport
• Volvo XC90
• VW Touareg

Hoping to get something 2015 onwards with 50k miles or less ideally, leather interior and decent spec hence M sport for the BMWs. Want it to have a decent boot for dog, rules out saloons.

Ideally a hybrid as it would most likely be the best value with the VRT. It is a real pity the G31 cannot be gotten in a hybrid in 2017 money like the saloon. For the X5 I wouldn't able to afford the diesel, would have to be the hybrid and that would be tight. The Touareg cost price in UK is relatively good value but the huge VRT negates that.

Are there any hybrids or low emission estates or SUVs that you can think of that would fall into the above that I might be missing?
Preferably mid size and above, so 5 series, a6, e Class etc. Not A4, C Class, 3 series.

Brands that I would like to stay within:
BMW
Audi
Mercedes
Volkswagen
Volvo

Budget would be 30000 euro landed and VRT paid tops, preferably closer to 25000.

Is it a big dog? I wouldn't necessarily rule out the A4 if you're going for the estate. Boot is pretty big, though A6 boot is huge. Same with the C Class.

I was in a similar position 18 months ago and ended up in an A6 Avant as I stumbled upon one already here that had just been imported by a dealer.

deezell

L-M wrote: »

Check how many main dealers stock 12/13 cars and come back to me.

Also PCP is the same as HP, you don’t own the car until you pay for it but the garage doesn’t own it either so it’s not VAT qualifying. You can google all you look but what I’m telling you is correct.

5162 2012-13 dealer cars on CarsIreland today, but we're talking about the UK here. Plenty of info in the UK about what makes a car VAT Qualfying, but being financed by lease or PCP or whatever and owned by the dealer until handed back after 3 year warranty expiratiion is one them. Car can not be privately owned or registered afaik. PCP in the UK is basically, put down a deposit, then rent the car for 3 years, then buy it or hand it back. A large number of PCP financed hand backs would be private, and not vat qualifying.
Look out for a huge rush of these cars onto the market this year, and good value in low Nox imports (2017-2020 cars), if this article in the Guardian is correct;

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/08/fears-of-crisis-in-uk-car-finance-market-as-owners-seek-payments-help

LillySV

ustari wrote: »

Hi all,

Hoping to buy something in the next couple of months when all this dies down.

Thinking along the following lines currently:

• BMW 5 series G31 touring M sport(2017)
• BMW X5 F15 M sport
• Volvo XC90
• VW Touareg

Hoping to get something 2015 onwards with 50k miles or less ideally, leather interior and decent spec hence M sport for the BMWs. Want it to have a decent boot for dog, rules out saloons.

Ideally a hybrid as it would most likely be the best value with the VRT. It is a real pity the G31 cannot be gotten in a hybrid in 2017 money like the saloon. For the X5 I wouldn't able to afford the diesel, would have to be the hybrid and that would be tight. The Touareg cost price in UK is relatively good value but the huge VRT negates that.

Are there any hybrids or low emission estates or SUVs that you can think of that would fall into the above that I might be missing?
Preferably mid size and above, so 5 series, a6, e Class etc. Not A4, C Class, 3 series.

Brands that I would like to stay within:
BMW
Audi
Mercedes
Volkswagen
Volvo

Budget would be 30000 euro landed and VRT paid tops, preferably closer to 25000.

I was looking for very much the same as yourself earlier this year, except I was aiming for mostly 3 litres or above ... Have a dog that rules the house so need something I can bring her in ...went to Uk to buy and came home empty handed .... vrt is too much on top of the uk prices (which the uk dealers won’t barter on I found) for proper machines like the X5 and toureg (ps in regards to hybrid X5, don’t try drive a diesel 3 litre X5 at same time as hybrid like I did... hybrids crap in comparison ) . Touregs too dear for what it is after vrt and nox. I found there was great prices on the e350 estate which has a huge boot... but I disliked the straight back . The 3 series and c class estates are good value but their boots aren’t that big in my opinion. Another poster here said he was similar too and went for a6 avant and I’ve been thinking the same for last while.... might be one to go for...big boot and the black edition is nice . Other than that I found a lot of the x5s , q7s etc were just going to come in at a price where I be as good adding another 5-7k onto the loan and getting a cayenne hybrid... at which stage you have to have to ask yourself ... do I want to spend/get loan on this much money for a car!! Haha

Ps I’m currently thinking of hanging on for a while and things likely to change

L-M

deezell wrote: »

5162 2012-13 dealer cars on CarsIreland today, but we're talking about the UK here. Plenty of info in the UK about what makes a car VAT Qualfying, but being financed by lease or PCP or whatever and owned by the dealer until handed back after 3 year warranty expiratiion is one them. Car can not be privately owned or registered afaik. PCP in the UK is basically, put down a deposit, then rent the car for 3 years, then buy it or hand it back. A large number of PCP financed hand backs would be private, and not vat qualifying.
Look out for a huge rush of these cars onto the market this year, and good value in low Nox imports (2017-2020 cars), if this article in the Guardian is correct;

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/08/fears-of-crisis-in-uk-car-finance-market-as-owners-seek-payments-help

PCPs aren’t VAT qualifying because the customer still owns the car. They’re the exact same as a HP.

A Lease or PCH (Personal conctract hire) the car would stay registered to the company as they’re renting them. Two completely different things.

Most VAT qualifying cars are EX rentals.

deezell

L-M wrote: »

PCPs aren’t VAT qualifying because the customer still owns the car. They’re the exact same as a HP.

A Lease or PCH (Personal conctract hire) the car would stay registered to the company as they’re renting them. Two completely different things.

Most VAT qualifying cars are EX rentals.

Quote from Patrick Collinson in the Guardian article above:
"..... The most common purchase method has been personal contract plans (PCP), where a buyer puts down a deposit and then rents the vehicle for two to three years at a monthly cost, typically around £250,....."
I guess he's wrong also...

colm_mcm

You know what PCP stands for, right?

L-M

A PCP is a Hire purchase agreement. You’ve the exact same ownership as you have with with any loan that’s tied against a car. The car is registered to you.

A Lease is something completely different which is basically like a long term rental, you never own the car, you don’t get a logbook etc etc

Please stop linking articles to journalists because they’re the idiots that keep sharing incorrect information about PCP.

brimeh

LillySV wrote: »

I was looking for very much the same as yourself earlier this year, except I was aiming for mostly 3 litres or above ... Have a dog that rules the house so need something I can bring her in ...went to Uk to buy and came home empty handed .... vrt is too much on top of the uk prices (which the uk dealers won’t barter on I found) for proper machines like the X5 and toureg (ps in regards to hybrid X5, don’t try drive a diesel 3 litre X5 at same time as hybrid like I did... hybrids crap in comparison ) . Touregs too dear for what it is after vrt and nox. I found there was great prices on the e350 estate which has a huge boot... but I disliked the straight back . The 3 series and c class estates are good value but their boots aren’t that big in my opinion. Another poster here said he was similar too and went for a6 avant and I’ve been thinking the same for last while.... might be one to go for...big boot and the black edition is nice . Other than that I found a lot of the x5s , q7s etc were just going to come in at a price where I be as good adding another 5-7k onto the loan and getting a cayenne hybrid... at which stage you have to have to ask yourself ... do I want to spend/get loan on this much money for a car!! Haha

Ps I’m currently thinking of hanging on for a while and things likely to change

I'm likely going to be selling the A6 soon enough - you could save yourself the trip! It's a black edition and all..! (only a 2 litre though)

LillySV

brimeh wrote: »

I'm likely going to be selling the A6 soon enough - you could save yourself the trip! It's a black edition and all..! (only a 2 litre though)

What ya going for next ?

deezell

colm_mcm wrote: »

You know what PCP stands for, right?

Of course not. I'm an idiot also. These guys aren't.
https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/money/loans/paying-for-your-car/pcp/
Quote:
"With a PCP you don’t own the car: you are essentially hiring it for an agreed period of time, typically three years."
Take it up with them, they're a statutory state body. (or also 'idiots'?). Have you a PCP car? It's not yours. Yet. I own mine.

deezell

LillySV wrote: »

.... vrt is too much on top of the uk prices (which the uk dealers won’t barter on I found)......Ps I’m currently thinking of hanging on for a while and things likely to change

They'll have to barter soon. According to industry experts, 6.5% drop in Diesels. 9.2% on SUVs for March. You're probably right to hang on.
https://www.motortrader.com/motor-trader-news/automotive-news/dealers-adjust-used-car-prices-online-lockdown-01-04-2020

L-M

The explanation of a HP agreement (Hire Purchase) might help You understand better. (They’re the same thing, if you sign a “PCP” agreement, you sign a HP agreeement.

https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/money/loans/paying-for-your-car/hire-purchase/?gclid=CjwKCAjw4pT1BRBUEiwAm5QuR2O9a8ZtfE6to3fajW1A95iH-AXQOowvmL_1Bn9LqvWpai7Wc_m9lBoCZzUQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Which is the exact same thing. You don’t because the LEGAL owner, ie the same way you don’t own your house until you’re mortgage is paid.

I’ve sold PCP for just over 5 years now. I know exactly what they are. Every single PCP the car is registered to the customer.

A Lease is completely different. That stays registered to a business who collects rent every month but the customer has no option to buy out at the end.

I’m not going to reply any further because you seem to be a bit of a google merchant, and it’s really not worth trying to explain to someone who doesn’t want to admit they’re wrong.

brimeh

LillySV wrote: »

What ya going for next ?

Going to get an M140i. Have needed to use the full ‘space’ in the A6 about twice in the past 18 months so really don’t need something as big.

ustari

brimeh wrote: »

Going to get an M140i. Have needed to use the full ‘space’ in the A6 about twice in the past 18 months so really don’t need something as big.

Could you please send me on the ad when you post it please?
Would like to take a look.

LillySV

brimeh wrote: »

Going to get an M140i. Have needed to use the full ‘space’ in the A6 about twice in the past 18 months so really don’t need something as big.

Love machine to go for... , plenty more power but you probably miss your space then! Haha

What year and mileage is the Audi

brimeh

ustari wrote: »

Could you please send me on the ad when you post it please?
Would like to take a look.

Will do! Might be sometime this week or next.

LillySV wrote: »

Love machine to go for... , plenty more power but you probably miss your space then! Haha

What year and mileage is the Audi

Haha yep will see how it turns out. More afraid of the potential petrol costs!

Audi is a 162 around 52k miles if I remember correctly.

Allinall

L-M wrote: »

The explanation of a HP agreement (Hire Purchase) might help You understand better. (They’re the same thing, if you sign a “PCP” agreement, you sign a HP agreeement.

https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/money/loans/paying-for-your-car/hire-purchase/?gclid=CjwKCAjw4pT1BRBUEiwAm5QuR2O9a8ZtfE6to3fajW1A95iH-AXQOowvmL_1Bn9LqvWpai7Wc_m9lBoCZzUQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Which is the exact same thing. You don’t because the LEGAL owner, ie the same way you don’t own your house until you’re mortgage is paid.

I’ve sold PCP for just over 5 years now. I know exactly what they are. Every single PCP the car is registered to the customer.

A Lease is completely different. That stays registered to a business who collects rent every month but the customer has no option to buy out at the end.

I’m not going to reply any further because you seem to be a bit of a google merchant, and it’s really not worth trying to explain to someone who doesn’t want to admit they’re wrong.

That statement is 100% false.

Dazed2020

I appreciate this thread mostly relates to Irish residents importing from UK, but I'm currently living in the UK planning to move back to Ireland next year.
Planning on buying a couple of cars, will hold for min 6 months and then move.

There's obviously a lot of uncertainty but does anybody disagree with my assumption here:
Even without a trade agreement between UK-EU (so a 'hard Brexit') I will be exempt from VRT as well as VAT/customs?
I believe exemption from VRT applies to non-EU as well as EU movers & exemption,they call it relief, from Vat & customs applies even if moving from outside the EU.

can't post actual links due to being a new user, but looking here:
revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/reliefs-and-exemptions/transfer-of-residence.aspx
revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/transfer-of-residence/index.aspx

Wondering if anyone has a different interpretation than me or any idea where i might get stung?

Other question I had is whether the exemption applies to only 1 car per person? so the wife & i couldn't bring back 3 cars & sell 1 a year later?

brimeh

Dazed2020 wrote: »

I appreciate this thread mostly relates to Irish residents importing from UK, but I'm currently living in the UK planning to move back to Ireland next year.
Planning on buying a couple of cars, will hold for min 6 months and then move.

There's obviously a lot of uncertainty but does anybody disagree with my assumption here:
Even without a trade agreement between UK-EU (so a 'hard Brexit') I will be exempt from VRT as well as VAT/customs?
I believe exemption from VRT applies to non-EU as well as EU movers & exemption,they call it relief, from Vat & customs applies even if moving from outside the EU.

can't post actual links due to being a new user, but looking here:
revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/reliefs-and-exemptions/transfer-of-residence.aspx
revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/transfer-of-residence/index.aspx

Wondering if anyone has a different interpretation than me or any idea where i might get stung?

Other question I had is whether the exemption applies to only 1 car per person? so the wife & i couldn't bring back 3 cars & sell 1 a year later?

I believe you are correct on all points. I know someone who brought a car back from Australia and was exempt so even with a hard Brexit it should be fine, I'd think.

And you are also correct that it is 1 car per person and that's your 1 exemption for life - you can't do it again.

Atlantic Dawn

brimeh wrote: »

I believe you are correct on all points. I know someone who brought a car back from Australia and was exempt so even with a hard Brexit it should be fine, I'd think.

And you are also correct that it is 1 car per person and that's your 1 exemption for life - you can't do it again.

Yes should be exempt from VRT around residency rules but possibly liable to VAT and import duty I think.

brimeh

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Yes should be exempt from VRT around residency rules but possibly liable to VAT and import duty I think.

All falls under the same exemption I think?

https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/vehicle-registration-tax/vrt-manual-section-02.pdf

All information about exemptions in this manual - from my understanding you should be fine on VAT but regarding a hard Brexit and customs duty who knows.. There is a section in the manual about customs duty transferring from non-EU countries.

Another possibly important point is that you need to provide evidence of usage so can't just let it sit for 6 months. Whether they actually check that or not I'm not sure.

colm_mcm

brimeh wrote: »

I believe you are correct on all points. I know someone who brought a car back from Australia and was exempt so even with a hard Brexit it should be fine, I'd think.

And you are also correct that it is 1 car per person and that's your 1 exemption for life - you can't do it again.

You can do it every few years. Maybe 5 - Didn’t know this til recently.

Marcusm

colm_mcm wrote: »

You can do it every few years. Maybe 5 - Didn’t know this til recently.

THe 5 years thing is guidance, the reality is that you are entitled to bring back any chattels which you usually have in your foreign residence. 5 years is their way of having an administrative check. Usually it would be difficult to take up residence here, depart Ireland and take up residence there before coming back to Ireland yet again within a 5 year period.

You can also bring in more than one car. I brought two with me although I had extensive evidence that I usually owned two cars going back 8 yers before I came back.

As regards use, there have been recent cases on this at the TAx Appeals Commission for people in your position who purchased cars in anticipation of coming to Ireland but who had not previoulsy had them. IN one case, the car had been owned for 6 months prior to coming to Ireland but the owner hadnt insured or taxed it and had stored it in a garage while they spent much of gthe 6 months travelling.

At a minimum, I would infer that the car has to be insured and taxed and not left standing. After all, the relief is to allow you to bring back what you have used overseas, not to anticipate a need after changing residence.

Dazed2020

brimeh wrote: »

All falls under the same exemption I think?



All information about exemptions in this manual - from my understanding you should be fine on VAT but regarding a hard Brexit and customs duty who knows.. There is a section in the manual about customs duty transferring from non-EU countries.

Another possibly important point is that you need to provide evidence of usage so can't just let it sit for 6 months. Whether they actually check that or not I'm not sure.

Cheers for that link.
And thanks for all the above replies.
While we won't be driving daily in the UK, cars will be taxed/insured & driven on weekends. So hopefully won't have an issue in that respect.

My mind is put at greater ease.

Now the hard (and fun) part of looking at cars.
Given the exemptions I think it makes sense for the wife & I to spend some cash now.
I'm thinking ~£20-25k on my car (can get a 2019 320i or 330i M sport in that range). But the wife is intent on getting on getting an X5/XC90 for ~£45k. I can't seem to convince her to get a saloon/estate for a lot less.
I've read a lot here that UK dealers won't negotiate on price. Has anyone had experience of buying 2 cars from the same dealer? Would that lead to negotiation?