Gardaí: Provo Army Council oversees PIRA & SF

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ah SS is stuck again...it's back to Gerry again.

Take her handy. Sorry to burst your bubble. You better get used to it with Michael...he's breaking another of his election pledges atm, negotiating a coalition with FG...now what did he say about that before the election?

No Francie. Just pointing out your hypocrisy as usual.

Depending on “what it says in the papers” to try to prove your point and then dismissing them when they say something you don’t like.

jm08

SafeSurfer wrote: »

History?

The Continuity IRA claim the exact same legitimacy as the Provisional IRA sought and claimed previously. That is that the provisional Army council are, as the heirs of the second Dail as vindicated by its last surviving member, Thomas Maguire, the legitimate government of the 32 county republic and the provisional IRA are the legitimate army of that republic.

That is the historic reality and the reason why SINN Fein revert to the Free State, south, etc, etc.

TBH, the name that SF use for the State is irrelevant. We all know what they are talking about.


I think you are terrible confused by all the different versions of the IRA over the last 100 years. I asked TROC in this thread (but didn't answer). Do you think that Sean MacBride was a terrorist who should never have been allowed into Government? What about Frank Aiken? What about Dev?

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

No Francie. Just pointing out your hypocrisy as usual.

Depending on “what it says in the papers” to try to prove your point and then dismissing them when they say something you don’t like.

'Opinion' can always be contested SS.

You can't contest it, you keep pivoting to personally attacking me and trying to wedge the bould Gerry into the conversation when you run out of road. You even accused me of 'doctoring' the quotes.

Get that wee frazzled head on a pillow for a while.

Night night.

SafeSurfer

jm08 wrote: »

TBH, the name that SF use for the State is irrelevant. We all know what they are talking about.


I think you are terrible confused by all the different versions of the IRA over the last 100 years. I asked TROC in this thread (but didn't answer). Do you think that Sean MacBride was a terrorist who should never have been allowed into Government? What about Frank Aiken? What about Dev?

All of them recognized both the constitution of Ireland and the legitimacy of the Irish state.

Do I believe that former physical force republicans or physical force unionists have a place in future all Ireland government? Absolutely, as long as they recognise the legitimacy of the state they serve.

Cheerful Spring2

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The Peace Process is essentially an IRA decision to stop their campaign. Once they stopped nobody else kept shooting at them. So the Peace Process stays in place as long as the IRA want it to. I share your optimism that it is secure.

Plenty of those characters who sat on the IRA council were old men. Many are likely dead now since the war ended over 22 years ago. It is very remote there is still an active organised IRA network holding meetings to decide Sinn Fein policy still? Sinn Fein delegates are very young, many university educated in the South, so it’s obvious this a new generation of Sinn Fein people.

They're a collection of them with IRA ties who got elected, but they signed up for peace, and kept the promise, and did not turn their back on the peace process. FF and FG want to keep Sinn Fein out of government that's their issue, but they’re refusing to respect Sinn Fein came second, and likely would have came first if they ran more candidates. This is not democracy refusing to accept Sinn Fein  right to be in government, when based on first preference votes tallies they did beat FG and FF.

dxhound2005

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Plenty of those characters who sat on the IRA council were old men. Many are likely dead now since the war ended over 22 years ago. It is very remote there is still an active organised IRA network holding meetings to decide Sinn Fein policy still? Sinn Fein delegates are very young, many university educated in the South, so it’s obvious this a new generation of Sinn Fein people.

They're a collection of them with IRA ties who got elected, but they signed up for peace, and kept the promise, and did not turn their back on the peace process. FF and FG want to keep Sinn Fein out of government that's their issue, but they’re refusing to respect Sinn Fein came second, and likely would have came first if they ran more candidates. This is not democracy refusing to accept Sinn Fein  right to be in government, when based on first preference votes tallies they did beat FG and FF.

I am not going to give anyone credit for not resuming a campaign of violence. As far as I am concerned what happened in the recent past was not worth dying for, and certainly not worth killing for. I would even venture that opinion on 1916 and what happened 100 years ago. I have no doubt we would be an independent state now, with none of that killing.

The last part of your post is classic Sinn Fein nonsense. No party has any right to be in government, unless they can agree with others to form a government. That is democracy.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Opinion' can always be contested SS.

You can't contest it, you keep pivoting to personally attacking me and trying to wedge the bould Gerry into the conversation when you run out of road. You even accused me of 'doctoring' the quotes.

Get that wee frazzled head on a pillow for a while.

Night night.

I just pointed out your hypocrisy Francie.

But it’s par for the course.

An Irish Republican Army which didn’t meet any of its war aims, capitulated completely due to infiltration by British intelligence agents and ultimately dumped arms, leaving the British Army as the only army with weapons in the “six counties” and yet Sinn Fein declares “ we won the war” and sells “IRA - Undefeated Army” t shirts.

You, as a Sinn Fein sycophant are called out for your hypocrisy and total error in predicting a Michael Martin post election u turn and instead of acknowledging your massive misreading of the situation claim you were right all along.

You are welcome to your beliefs that the IRA (which Gerry Adams was never a member of) are an undefeated army and that Michael Martin will do a u turn and go into government with Sinn Fein. Good luck to you in your beliefs if you find solace in them. It’s healthier to entertain fantasy and imagination than escape reality through the abuse of drugs or alcohol.

Runaways

Not to wander off topic but how much of Leo’s entrenched determination to be in opposition is that he has the relevant info and doesn’t want to be at the helm when the corona outbreak hits here and utter shambles of the HSE and it’s inability to deal with it has to be answered for?

I’m thinking that’s likely

grayzer75

dxhound2005 wrote: »

As far as I am concerned what happened in the recent past was not worth dying for, and certainly not worth killing for.

What did you want the Catholic community to do, sit back while they were being burned out of their homes or not fight for equal rights and continue to live as second class citizens? It wouldn't have turned into the sh1tshow it was only for the likes of Paisley and his followers who tried their best to keep the Catholic community as second class citizens.

A big turning point was what happened at Burntollet Bridge outside Derry on New Years Day 1969 when a peaceful civil rights march was attached by Paisleys men as the RUC looked on, this was followed by a lot worse on Sunday the 30th of January 1972 in the Bogside.

It's very easy to sit behind a keyboard and say it's not worth dying for or killing for but unless you were directly affected by what happened you will never truly understand why people risked there lives for a better future or took up arms against those who tried to suppress them.

I am not condoning the loss of any innocent lives on either side but the troubles wouldn't have happened if the unionist state had given the catholic population their equal rights back in the mid to late 60's when the civil rights movement came to the fore e.g. housing, education, one man one vote.

FrancieBrady

Runaways wrote: »

Not to wander off topic but how much of Leo’s entrenched determination to be in opposition is that he has the relevant info and doesn’t want to be at the helm when the corona outbreak hits here and utter shambles of the HSE and it’s inability to deal with it has to be answered for?

I’m thinking that’s likely

My opinion is that Leo is playing the democracy game FG/FF have gotten so used to playing.

It is the 'semblance' of democracy. They will shout at one another - disagree - mock spar etc but the nod has already been given. They will form some sort of government rather than relinquish the reins.
I think they are so separated from their voters that they think squabbling over the 'big seat' and who gets to sit in it for 6 months of the year is something noble.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I just pointed out your hypocrisy Francie.

But it’s par for the course.

An Irish Republican Army which didn’t meet any of its war aims, capitulated completely due to infiltration by British intelligence agents and ultimately dumped arms, leaving the British Army as the only army with weapons in the “six counties” and yet Sinn Fein declares “ we won the war” and sells “IRA - Undefeated Army” t shirts.

You, as a Sinn Fein sycophant are called out for your hypocrisy and total error in predicting a Michael Martin post election u turn and instead of acknowledging your massive misreading of the situation claim you were right all along.

You are welcome to your beliefs that the IRA (which Gerry Adams was never a member of) are an undefeated army and that Michael Martin will do a u turn and go into government with Sinn Fein. Good luck to you in your beliefs if you find solace in them. It’s healthier to entertain fantasy and imagination than escape reality through the abuse of drugs or alcohol.

When you are going to have a little off-topic triggered strop, try and find somebody who believes the stuff you are having a bitch about?

Again- I said Michael would do anything to be Taoiseach before the election -EVEN go in with SF.

Use your brain here - the debate with FG atm is about who gets to be Taoiseach
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/fianna-fails-dismissal-of-rotating-taoiseach-plan-arrogant-fine-gael-claims-983576.html

THAT is Michael's primary concern and that is why he shut the door on going in with SF because he knew he hadn't the seat numbers to secure the 'big seat'.

This has been all about power, not some high moral ground stance. What in the world is Leo or Michael doing having anything to do with SF if the IRA is still in operation?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/25/sinn-fein-party-two-party-system

Runaways

The childish name calling and mud slinging evident in the discourse here is nauseating. And coming from the top down it seems. No prizes for guessing which party those doing it support.

realdanbreen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Opinion' can always be contested SS.

You can't contest it, you keep pivoting to personally attacking me and trying to wedge the bould Gerry into the conversation when you run out of road. You even accused me of 'doctoring' the quotes.

Get that wee frazzled head on a pillow for a while.

Night night.

Seriously pal. You manage to get confrontational in just about every thread that you get involved with. The underlying bitterness and aggro is getting boring at this stage .

JustAThought

When I heard the party political script issued being called out on the news yesterday I nearly crashed the car. Same patronising condescending out of date thinking by self entitled closed in politicians and their croonies in RTE. SF win a landslide victory in the polls against all odds and Ff/FG expectations so they party decides to issue a PR office political statement to RTE who then repeat it thinking it will allow them gain political points.

Its this kind of self entitled thinking and inability to see the real issues on the ground and the utter disenchantment and disgust at the parties and games they played that ruined this country is people have walked away from traditional parties in their tens of thousands. But neither FF nor FG party can see this and understand. People are sick of you all and your corruption and twisted speaking and cronyism and utter contempt for real needs and ordinary peoples needs and ambitions. Are you all so sick in the head from talking amongst yourselves in closed rooms that you absolutely cannot see this and that we see your desperate effort for what it is?

Tune in next election for greater SF landslide.

FrancieBrady

realdanbreen wrote: »

Seriously pal. You manage to get confrontational in just about every thread that you get involved with. The underlying bitterness and aggro is getting boring at this stage .

I present links and back-up to what I am saying and some poster keeps up with the vitriol and 'what about the RA?' juvenile attempts to taunt because he cannot bring himself to criticise Michael Martin?


The thread is about the election in 2020. I present a theory that has been written about on the front pages of two of our main newspapers as well as being discussed elsewhere in the media and all I get back for my efforts is some bile about 'undefeated armies' 'the 'RA' etc rather than dealing with the topic.

I do get confrontational about that kind of debating on a forum, sorry.

Jinglejangle69

JustAThought wrote: »

When I heard the party political script issued being called out on the news yesterday I nearly crashed the car. Same patronising condescending out of date thinking by self entitled closed in politicians and their croonies in RTE. SF win a landslide victory in the polls against all odds and Ff/FG expectations so they party decides to issue a PR office political statement to RTE who then repeat it thinking it will allow them gain political points.

Its this kind of self entitled thinking and inability to see the real issues on the ground and the utter disenchantment and disgust at the parties and games they played that ruined this country is people have walked away from traditional parties in their tens of thousands. But neither FF nor FG party can see this and understand. People are sick of you all and your corruption and twisted speaking and cronyism and utter contempt for real needs and ordinary peoples needs and ambitions. Are you all so sick in the head from talking amongst yourselves in closed rooms that you absolutely cannot see this and that we see your desperate effort for what it is?

Tune in next election for greater SF landslide.

No party "won" the election.

Runaways

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

No party "won" the election.

Leo and Michael both have said SF got the most votes and it’s their responsibility to form a government and fulfill the Mandate

But nobody ‘won’

Which is it? It cannot be both really

FrancieBrady

Just in case I get accused of it later on (it has happened so many imes) finally a major newspaper is paying attention to this.
An example of Martin's hypocrisy and willingness to climb onto high moral ground when it is politically advantageous. (i.e. there are no known photos of Michael on the steps of the Dáil, with the victims in this story)

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/victims-reject-sean-o-fearghails-self-serving-statement-about-his-reference-for-convicted-paedophile-984023.html

is_that_so

McMurphy wrote: »

I'll keep an eye out for Leo on the news whinging about the greens holding rallies similar to the shinners shall I?

SF rallies an 'unwelcome development', says Varadkar

He's doing himself no favours, he's getting absolutely torn to shreds on twitter, he'd be better just doing a STFU until he can depart the stage unnoticed tbh.

Ah, Twitter, the constant overflowing toilet bowl of modern civilisation. Like a Leo broadside, a Twitter meltdown is as predictable as the rain. The Greens would never organise anything as uncouth as a rally, they come together!

is_that_so

Runaways wrote: »

Leo and Michael both have said SF got the most votes and it’s their responsibility to form a government and fulfill the Mandate

But nobody ‘won’

Which is it? It cannot be both really

Biggest party try to form a government. The largest party in votes have tried and failed, while blaming others. FF may also fail and blame others. FG won't even try as they are "unwelcome" in nearly all scenarios.

McMurphy

is_that_so wrote: »

Ah, Twitter, the constant overflowing toilet bowl of modern civilisation. Like a Leo broadside, a Twitter meltdown is as predictable as the rain. The Greens would never organise anything as uncouth as a rally, they come together!

It's RTÉ, the state broadcaster, what you twittering about, or are you saying twitter is the toilet bowl of modern civilization?

Leo and his pals seem quite fond of it.

alastair

Runaways wrote: »

Leo and Michael both have said SF got the most votes and it’s their responsibility to form a government and fulfill the Mandate

But nobody ‘won’

Which is it? It cannot be both really

SF got the same number of seats as FF. First preference votes don’t dictate winners - seats do. The outcome is a tie for most successful party, and an awkward split overall. Which is why we are where we are.

dxhound2005

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The thread is about the election in 2020. I present a theory that has been written about on the front pages of two of our main newspapers as well as being discussed elsewhere in the media and all I get back for my efforts is some bile about 'undefeated armies' 'the 'RA' etc rather than dealing with the topic.

As per the thread title, this is not a catch all discussion about the election. It is very specific to the subject of the IRA directing Sinn Fein.

Gardaí: Provo Army Council oversees PIRA & SF

is_that_so

McMurphy wrote: »

It's RTÉ, the state broadcaster, what you twittering about, or are you saying twitter is the toilet bowl of modern civilization?

Leo and his pals seem quite fond of it.

Many people are fond of it, I am myself but it doesn't mean that is not one of the worst things to ever happen to the notion of civil discourse as well as being one of the poorest arbiters of anything.

Runaways

alastair wrote: »

SF got the same number of seats as FF. First preference votes don’t dictate winners - seats do. The outcome is a tie for most successful party, and an awkward split overall. Which is why we are where we are.

I’m aware of that. And it tells all we need to know that FFFG are terrified of a second election as they know it’ll go even worse for them in a second election. And this scrambling to hang onto to power is evident to all and infuriating everyone. It will backfire in a huge way.

FrancieBrady

is_that_so wrote: »

Many people are fond of it, I am myself but it doesn't mean that is not one of the worst things to ever happen to the notion of civil discourse as well as being one of the poorest arbiters of anything.

In terms of politics or even broadcasting, the people who seem to dislike Twitter are those who don't like the idea that their pontifications can be answered back or that their bull**** can be challenged. Or that 'jounalism' should be the preserve of a selected few.
While there is some bile and unjustified bullying, I think it has democratised the media and politics in a healthy way.
A lot of people are having difficulty with that democratisation. Some would say 'the usual suspects'.

McMurphy

is_that_so wrote: »

Many people are fond of it, I am myself but it doesn't mean that is not one of the worst things to ever happen to the notion of civil discourse as well as being one of the poorest arbiters of anything.

It gives politicians a chance to engage directly with their electorate, they'll get some virtual high fives and also vitriol too.

But it's a distant second to face to face meetings in town halls or hotels mind you.:)

JohnnyFlash

Twitter is to civil discourse what the Black Death was to the population of Europe.

It’s a festering shïthole of hate.

is_that_so

McMurphy wrote: »

It gives politicians a chance to engage directly with their electorate, they'll get some virtual high fives and also vitriol too.

But it's a distant second to face to face meetings in town halls or hotels mind you.:)

Yeah that is true but in face to face events people do largely show a modicum of respect and they calm down. An anonymous username allows you to cut loose at will to feed that self-righteous inner rage!

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

In terms of politics or even broadcasting, the people who seem to dislike Twitter are those who don't like the idea that their pontifications can be answered back or that their bull**** can be challenged. Or that 'jounalism' should be the preserve of a selected few.
While there is some bile and unjustified bullying, I think it has democratised the media and politics in a healthy way.
A lot of people are having difficulty with that democratisation. Some would say 'the usual suspects'.

Twitter politically is a cess pit of anonymous mis information campaigns and troll farms