Saracens Salarygate: Automatic Relegation?

durkadurka

prawnsambo wrote: »

Have you a source for that? Because it would strike me that it would be a standard enough clause.

Um, eh, Stephen Jones in the paper today

*runs away and hides under a rock*

Squidgy Black

You would have to imagine that players are going to have to have a long hard think about it. The likes of Farrell etc who are reportedly saying they're going to stay and won't leave, run the risk of taking a pay cut of several hundreds of thousands of pounds, playing two years in the championship, with what you would imagine will be a much weaker squad.

It's all fine and well to say they'll get back up in two years if they get under the cap, but with the financial situation there's also a good chance things will go tits up and they'll be stuck in a sinking ship. It's a massive risk for a top flight player. It's not exactly like sticking with say Newcastle or even Bristol in their championship year where they know they'll be straight back up the year after.

prawnsambo

durkadurka wrote: »

Um, eh, Stephen Jones in the paper today

*runs away and hides under a rock*

It's not in the article that was posted earlier on this thread.

durkadurka

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's not in the article that was posted earlier on this thread.

There’s another article he wrote today.

Squidgy Black

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-7903083/Sabbaticals-overseas-friendlies-innovative-proposals-Saracens-plan-stars.html

Interesting stuff in there, talk of tournaments against South African super rugby sides, sabbaticals, and loan deals to IRFU provinces

CIARAN_BOYLE

Squidgy Black wrote: »

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-7903083/Sabbaticals-overseas-friendlies-innovative-proposals-Saracens-plan-stars.html

Interesting stuff in there, talk of tournaments against South African super rugby sides, sabbaticals, and loan deals to IRFU provinces

Problem is they are talking about one year in championship. They have to worry about two.

Someone has to reread the rules book.

Eod100

Buer wrote: »

I'll be very interested to see what happens to the likes of McCall. I'd imagine he won't be going anywhere given his l success is massively tainted now.

The knock on impact of this are massive. Can England have multiple players in a lower division? Can the Lions go into a test series with a number of test players having had their feet up for a domestic season?

It will be interestint to see who departs. I'd imagine other teams are already all over a number of players. Farrell and Kruis have already said they're staying there.

If lads go to France, they're out of international contention but I reckon a few will go there anyway. Anyone over 30 should be on their bike straight away.

I think given the unusual circumstances there might be flexibility about being picked from abroad potentially

OldRio

I'd imagine that the idea of 'ring fencing' the Premiership has been put on hold for a season or two or three.

ScrubsfanChris

The sh*thousery begins.................. :pac:

https://twitter.com/AndyGoode10/status/1218840994059378688?s=20:

sydthebeat

Love goody

The rugby pod will be fun this week

Squidgy Black

He's been getting a lot of heat on Twitter for no reason, there seems to be a lot of English fans who are criticising anyone reporting or speaking out about the decision.

Can't wait for the podcast episode though. In fairness to Hamilton he's been playing along with it in good humour so far.

Buer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If Wray pulls out financially the club is done and I imagine that is a prospect right now and a factor in the players thoughts.

That's the thing. Saracens aren't thinking about getting back to the top of the tree at the moment. They need to ensure their future existence right now.

They're still miles over the cap. Their average player has a salary way in excess of the average Championship player. They've a huge fine. The television and prize money is probably gone for 2 years. The sponsors and support is going to evaporate.

This could well be Richmond all over again if they don't have a plan and quick.

BonnieSituation

Remember after the shocking crowd at the Munster SF last year there was talk of changing the format yet again. Again reportage seemed to ignore the fact bit was a lack of Saracens fans that led to this.

Really wound me up. And just something else remember with this toxic hovel of a club

Empty seats leave Champions Cup licking its wounds and looking at rejig

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2019/apr/23/empty-seats-champions-cup-looking-rejig-rugby-union-cvc-pro14?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

---

That Stephen Jones article posted earlier is beyond anything I even thought his delusion was capable of.

Jesus!

Scythica

living over in england everyone keeps telling me irish sides all break the salary cap if it was the same.

does anyone have any facts or figures on this?

RobbieRuns

sydthebeat wrote: »

Love goody

The rugby pod will be fun this week

Can’t stand the fat eejit. A headline grabbing, lime light loving mercenary.

What actually is he? Not a journo, self promoter of himself through social media.

Squidgy Black

Scythica wrote: »

living over in england everyone keeps telling me irish sides all break the salary cap if it was the same.

does anyone have any facts or figures on this?

There's no figures available for any Irish provinces, wages aren't disclosed or province spending on salaries. A figure was floated around of €10 million for Leinster, but if you brought the exemptions for two top players, credits for international players, and then test windows + injuries it'd probably be roughly similar to the cap amount and a guess.

Bazzo

Scythica wrote: »

living over in england everyone keeps telling me irish sides all break the salary cap if it was the same.

does anyone have any facts or figures on this?

If anyone thinks Connacht's wage bill is >£7 million they're ****ing delusional.

The same is almost definitely true for Ulster and Munster. Leinster maaaybe

Panda Killa

https://twitter.com/threeredkings/status/1218655462910054400?s=09



Yaw..3 cheers for Taylor Swift

prawnsambo

Squidgy Black wrote: »

There's no figures available for any Irish provinces, wages aren't disclosed or province spending on salaries. A figure was floated around of €10 million for Leinster, but if you brought the exemptions for two top players, credits for international players, and then test windows + injuries it'd probably be roughly similar to the cap amount and a guess.

Ten million would be accurate enough. The only hint in the IRFU accounts (2018/19) is under the heading "Professional game costs" which total €45 million. You'd be deducting a hefty chunk for the coaching team, development officers, other salaries like Nucifora, attendance at tournaments etc. before you get around to divvying up money to the provinces. Then add in what the provinces generate themselves, the bulk of which would probably go towards running the show and paying the permanent staff plus grounds cost etc.

prawnsambo

Bazzo wrote: »

If anyone thinks Connacht's wage bill is >£7 million they're ****ing delusional.

The same is almost definitely true for Ulster and Munster. Leinster maaaybe

Jackie Lorenzetti was saying the other day that the Top 14 salary cap would be very similar to the Premiership one. His point was the the £7 million figure was the baseline to which is added the two marquee players and then allowances for internationals and academy players etc.

Buer

Squidgy Black wrote: »

There's no figures available for any Irish provinces, wages aren't disclosed or province spending on salaries. A figure was floated around of €10 million for Leinster, but if you brought the exemptions for two top players, credits for international players, and then test windows + injuries it'd probably be roughly similar to the cap amount and a guess.

I'd be flabbergasted if Leinster had a salary bill of €10m even allowing for centrally paid players. There are a glut of players at Leinster who are playing to a high level that would not command large salaries. I reckon the drop off between the salaries of the top test players and the lads outside the Irish 23 would be massive based on what we've heard in the past. Irish rugby is far from loose with their chequebook.

I could see the bill being around €7-8m all in which would be an average of about €160k.

Squidgy Black

You're likely right Buer, I think it was a couple of years ago and that figure would've included Jack McGrath and Sean O'Brien on top of the existing central contracts lads, and Rob Kearney. But would've also had Porter, Ryan, Ringrose, VdF Larmour etc on their first senior deals

sullivlo

jr86 wrote: »

French based players can still be picked in "exceptional circumstances" I understand

Its a non-issue with regard to world class players like farrell, Itoje and the Vunipolas anyway - they'll be playing for England regardless of where they end up

There's no way I can see Farrell going to France though.

Munster could put in an offer. They could do with another 10.

mun1

sullivlo wrote: »

Munster could put in an offer. They could do with another 10.

As classy as only a mod can be

prawnsambo

mun1 wrote: »

As classy as only a mod can be

Really? Munster have broken two out halves already.

lawrencesummers

mun1 wrote: »

As classy as only a mod can be

It’s not trolling when it’s Munster.
I’m fairly sure that’s one of the rules of the forum they try hard to enforce around these parts.

sullivlo

mun1 wrote: »

As classy as only a mod can be

I'm not a mod of the rugby forum, and it was a genuine suggestion.

prawnsambo wrote: »

Really? Munster have broken two out halves already.

This.

Carberry and Bleyndahl are constantly injured. JJ, whilst decent, is liable to have the odd brain fart. It's no secret that Munster are a shell of their former selves, and in the past, signings like Howlett made such an impact to their game. They could do worse than Farrell, and it might be a move he would consider given that his dad will be spending more time in Ireland. I can't see the IRFU blocking a move for a marquee player at 10, because there are many IQ players at 10.

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It’s not trolling when it’s Munster.
I’m fairly sure that’s one of the rules of the forum they try hard to enforce around these parts.

:rolleyes:

I'm not trolling. It is a genuine suggestion. Munster lack decent outhalf options. It appears that a decent outhalf might become available in the next few months. Sometimes two plus two does actually equal four.

But I suppose that wouldn't fit your "woe is me" mentality.

On the budget in Ireland it really is hard to tell. It comes under a “professional sport” title which includes everything from senior men’s down to the provinces. Some journalists estimate 10-12 million for Leinster but that covers 60 odd players less the central contracted players. It also has to include travel, training, insurance etc etc etc.

Average wage at Leinster from top players not on central down to academy would be around €200k and we know that isn’t what academy players are on.

If rumours are true Saracens were significantly over the 7m cap plus 2 marquee and development allowance and international allowance. They are easily on Leinsters budget with less players.

lawrencesummers

sullivlo wrote: »

I'm not a mod of the rugby forum, and it was a genuine suggestion.



This.

Carberry and Bleyndahl are constantly injured. JJ, whilst decent, is liable to have the odd brain fart. It's no secret that Munster are a shell of their former selves, and in the past, signings like Howlett made such an impact to their game. They could do worse than Farrell, and it might be a move he would consider given that his dad will be spending more time in Ireland. I can't see the IRFU blocking a move for a marquee player at 10, because there are many IQ players at 10.



:rolleyes:

I'm not trolling. It is a genuine suggestion. Munster lack decent outhalf options. It appears that a decent outhalf might become available in the next few months. Sometimes two plus two does actually equal four.

But I suppose that wouldn't fit your "woe is me" mentality.

A level of backtracking That Fine Gael would be proud of, but everyone can see through.
I notice you never suggested Connacht as potential suitors, a side Having plenty of OH issues also, because you couldn’t resist the cheap dig.

sullivlo

sullivlo wrote: »

that his dad will be spending more time in Ireland.

Has moved over with the family, lives in Dublin now.